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Re: On Spirituality as a Vase, Tipping as the Cat Crawls Under the Endtable

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  • thebookdoc@aol.com
    This cannot be claimed to be true. And as you are clearly stating it
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 8, 2001
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      << the way i see it, human beings have an inherent tendency towards the
      spiritual
      ... >>

      This cannot be claimed to be true. And as you are clearly stating it as an
      opinion, there is nothing on the other side of it...You think there is a
      wiring, and you are looking for someone to agree to help you further your
      point, where there is no solid ground for agreement (generally). Best you
      will do is get a few takers and have an attic party.

      It may be more the case that humans seek pattern and recognition, other wise
      we might do more in questioning some fundamental things like why do we build
      rectangularly based buildings, why don't more of us see the meaningless,
      fictional structure of the existence of society as a movement which is simply
      a relationship of simplicity (and I heard it) following the herd. Yet the
      shape that things have taken direct our lives, not out of our looking at
      those things and deciding "Yes! This IS the best of all possible solutions
      for me as an individual!" But are rather stuffed into a mold (seemingly known
      as culture) created by what is available as no one has time to re-design the
      entire structure around them (that is, weave their own manner of cloth for
      the clothing, or, indeed, find something other than weaving...).

      In light of that, I'd suggest said 'spirituality' is a manner of making a
      choice to either see spirituality as a good thing, or not, and then defining
      the choices within that set, and selecting. The 'hard wiring' is probably
      more a notation on the human 'need' for making a choice, which, from a larger
      perspective, is done by either choosing to be part of the society that is
      created and established (usually the default choice), or going outside of
      that. If you would prefer to think of 'spirituality' as the primary choice,
      that can work as well...I guess...but as far as being hardwired, I think that
      is inclusive of another set or three of higher level choices made (or not
      made) by the individual which leads them to a seemingly logical path of
      'belief.' Which is inherently encapsulated by that choice -- or lack of.

      In other words, life is designed around you and you are in the maze. You
      might pick a corridor, or you might climb the walls. Should you not find some
      solace as part of the herd, you might reject it, and then, perhaps, find
      rejection. But, to disenfranchise from the whole of the structure (language,
      society, however you'd like to break that down...) would leave you utterly
      alone, unable to communicate, and outcast (or perhaps what might be phrased
      as 'insane').

      I hope I didn't make any sense there...

      Richard
    • Edward Alf
      Richard et al, yes, that is the open question, is there an inherent tendency towards the spiritual? ... although i have not gotten that far into the study
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 8, 2001
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        Richard et al,

        yes, that is the open question, " is there an inherent tendency towards the
        spiritual?" ...

        although i have not gotten that far into the study of human psychology, i
        would suspect that there are a lot of inherent tendencies, thus the whether
        we have inherent tendencies, or as i would prefer to say "wiring", is not
        the issue ... my opinion is that within the set of already available
        inherent tendencies one of these is towards the spiritual ...

        i agree that humans seek recognition of patterns .. this is the process of
        learning ... i should think that the first pattern search of the newborn
        child is that of his/her mother's face ... but the face can have extreme
        variations ... obviously this has to be the case, since there are millions
        of babies and associated millions of mothers ... so it is not a particular
        face which is of importance, but rather the inherent tendency to seek out a
        face for which a pattern can be imprinted on the child's mind ...

        i would prefer to say that pattern recognition is more in the line of trying
        to find order out of chaos ... it is like when you first are presented with
        using a road map ... initially it is just a bunch of lines, symbols and
        place names ... once you are clued into how to read a road map, it starts to
        make some sense ... in other words, in that chaos presented on a large piece
        of folded paper, you now have the means to understand and see an underlying
        order ...

        for me, existentialism makes some sense ... thus a certain level of order
        ... it fits ... yet my perception of order is not complete ... there has to
        be something extra .. granted others may not think so .. perhaps they are
        satisfied with concept of existence (being) and creating yourself and your
        world from that platform ... for myself, im still on the quest ...

        anyway that is a bit of rambling and i should stop there and wait some more
        input ...

        regards

        eduard
        p.s. im an electrical engineer and that may serve to give you a feel for
        my particular manner of thinking .... :-))

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <thebookdoc@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 6:29 AM
        Subject: [existlist] Re: On Spirituality as a Vase, Tipping as the Cat
        Crawls Under the Endtable


        > << the way i see it, human beings have an inherent tendency towards the
        > spiritual
        > ... >>
        >
        > This cannot be claimed to be true. And as you are clearly stating it as an
        > opinion, there is nothing on the other side of it...You think there is a
        > wiring, and you are looking for someone to agree to help you further your
        > point, where there is no solid ground for agreement (generally). Best you
        > will do is get a few takers and have an attic party.
        >
        > It may be more the case that humans seek pattern and recognition, other
        wise
        > we might do more in questioning some fundamental things like why do we
        build
        > rectangularly based buildings, why don't more of us see the meaningless,
        > fictional structure of the existence of society as a movement which is
        simply
        > a relationship of simplicity (and I heard it) following the herd. Yet the
        > shape that things have taken direct our lives, not out of our looking at
        > those things and deciding "Yes! This IS the best of all possible solutions
        > for me as an individual!" But are rather stuffed into a mold (seemingly
        known
        > as culture) created by what is available as no one has time to re-design
        the
        > entire structure around them (that is, weave their own manner of cloth for
        > the clothing, or, indeed, find something other than weaving...).
        >
        > In light of that, I'd suggest said 'spirituality' is a manner of making a
        > choice to either see spirituality as a good thing, or not, and then
        defining
        > the choices within that set, and selecting. The 'hard wiring' is probably
        > more a notation on the human 'need' for making a choice, which, from a
        larger
        > perspective, is done by either choosing to be part of the society that is
        > created and established (usually the default choice), or going outside of
        > that. If you would prefer to think of 'spirituality' as the primary
        choice,
        > that can work as well...I guess...but as far as being hardwired, I think
        that
        > is inclusive of another set or three of higher level choices made (or not
        > made) by the individual which leads them to a seemingly logical path of
        > 'belief.' Which is inherently encapsulated by that choice -- or lack of.
        >
        > In other words, life is designed around you and you are in the maze. You
        > might pick a corridor, or you might climb the walls. Should you not find
        some
        > solace as part of the herd, you might reject it, and then, perhaps, find
        > rejection. But, to disenfranchise from the whole of the structure
        (language,
        > society, however you'd like to break that down...) would leave you utterly
        > alone, unable to communicate, and outcast (or perhaps what might be
        phrased
        > as 'insane').
        >
        > I hope I didn't make any sense there...
        >
        > Richard
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From The Exist List...
        > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
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