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Re: Generalities

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  • thebookdoc@aol.com
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 3, 2001
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      << where we have run into a problem is that we might wish to
      force others to have the same interpretation and this leads to inquisitions
      and burnings on the cross ... >>

      One of the most intelligent things I've ever heard on a list, Eduard.

      Excuse me for jumping in obviously late here: I doubt the brain is 'wired for
      spirituality' as if that is so, we would all be spiritual. All we need is an
      exception, and I think there would be a few in this group to raise their
      hands to volunteer as exceptions. Generalities (beyond those that suggest the
      individual interprets stimuli and reacts to it -- be that reaction not
      reacting), are generally not generally applicable. I am pretty sure I exist
      in some form. I can't be sure that you do -- even if I touch you.

      RL
    • Edward Alf
      RL, my reading so far has brought me to the conclusion that we are indeed wired for spirituality .... perhaps spirituality is too strong a word ... the
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 5, 2001
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        RL,

        my reading so far has brought me to the conclusion that we are indeed "wired
        for spirituality" .... perhaps "spirituality is too strong a word ... the
        meaning is some form of religious recognition ... or need for religious
        interaction ...

        it goes like this ... the brain is a mass of neurons that are the basis of
        our thinking ... and the means by which we "know" the outside world ... if
        you see chair, for example, then the only way that you are aware that it is
        a chair, is the reflected photons (light) that enter the eye and
        subsequently are turned into electrical (actually chemical) signals by the
        retina ... these signals are then processed by the neurons ... so the chair
        which we take to be something real, is actually just a bunch of sparks that
        pass from one neuron to another ... the brain tells itself that what is seen
        is a chair and also relates this to past feelings and experiences ...

        im not suggesting that the chair is an illusion ... but we only know it
        because of something that is processed in the brain ...

        lets say that you had a traumatic experience as a child ... your father, in
        moments of anger, would hit you over the head with a chair ... so now when
        you see a chair ... the same chair that i see ... you think of it as a
        weapon whereas i see it as a place to sit to eat a hamburger ... when the
        retinal signals are sent, you start to sense the oncoming of pain and i can
        hear my stomach rumbling ... i grant that this means that it is still a
        chair, but one could easily find some other associations and other objects
        for which what you see is not the same as what i see ... so who is correct
        ... it is not the chair's fault, only the manner in which each of us
        processes the information and chooses to make an interpretation ...

        so what we see is how we interpret ... in some cases the manner of
        interpretation and thus how we react is function of our ability to survive
        ... when you eat something, your taste buds provide signals to the brain ...
        if you are a caveman, then a particular taste signal may save your life,
        since some poisons tend to be sour ... now just as the chair was only an
        interpretation, so too is the taste ... it only exists as a signal in your
        brain and not eating further is dependent upon how your neurons have
        associated "sour" with "avoidance" ...

        you can carry this further from individual action to social action ... the
        caveman survives because he/she belongs to a group in which members can
        become specialized and help each other ... the interactions within the group
        is really only a reflection of the way in which our neurons are firing ...
        and the pieces of information which are tagged to what we see ... although
        some people wish to exist on the margins of society, i believe there is a
        pre-wiring in the brain which leads us towards group action ....

        our brains ability to enable us to survive also involves something beyond
        society ... i would suggest that this is the "wiring for spirituality" ...
        we have a tendency to seek a spiritual interaction ... this can be said in
        different ways ... some people are inclined to a deep spirituality ... they
        say they can see and hear god ... others may only wish to have spirituality
        within the social setting ... in any case it is still is something that we
        seem to need ... i think that this is where Existentialism comes into play
        ... some of us are not satisfied (our spiritual neurons are still looking
        for incoming signals) with the conventional philosophies ... we are on a
        life journey and we happen to read the works of Sartre and others and thus
        teach our neurons to make an appropriate interpretation ... all of this to
        fulfill the need ... as the chair is seen differently by different people,
        so to is the spiritual world seen differently ... but existentialism may
        serve to enable us to better survive whereas christianity or some other
        religion would not do so (for us) ... yet all of this is still spirituality
        just as a chair is still just a chair ...

        i would recommend that you read "The 3-Pound Universe" by Judith Hooper and
        Dick Teresi ...

        regards

        eduard


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <thebookdoc@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 8:49 AM
        Subject: [existlist] Re: Generalities


        > << where we have run into a problem is that we might wish to
        > force others to have the same interpretation and this leads to
        inquisitions
        > and burnings on the cross ... >>
        >
        > One of the most intelligent things I've ever heard on a list, Eduard.
        >
        > Excuse me for jumping in obviously late here: I doubt the brain is 'wired
        for
        > spirituality' as if that is so, we would all be spiritual. All we need is
        an
        > exception, and I think there would be a few in this group to raise their
        > hands to volunteer as exceptions. Generalities (beyond those that suggest
        the
        > individual interprets stimuli and reacts to it -- be that reaction not
        > reacting), are generally not generally applicable. I am pretty sure I
        exist
        > in some form. I can't be sure that you do -- even if I touch you.
        >
        > RL
        >
        > From The Exist List...
        > http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Knott
        From Duard in response to my first post in 3/2001. ... Always assume the other person is an idiot (before and after proven to be) and not as well read as
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 29 9:37 AM
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          From 'Duard in response to my first post in 3/2001.

          > my reading so far has brought me to the conclusion
          > that we are indeed "wired for spirituality" ....
          > i would recommend that you read "The 3-Pound
          > Universe" by Judith Hooper and Dick Teresi ...

          Always assume the other person is an idiot (before and after proven
          to be) and not as well read as you...Don't ever base your conclusions
          on anything, except what you want to believe (but don't allow others
          the same choice)...Require proof, provide none.

          This same discussion and series of events that has gone on for
          literal years now. You'd think it predictable...yet I keep expecting
          change. Either I am too stupid to see the pattern, or there is enough
          in human will that says to me "I can't be sure he'll say the same
          thing over and over." Perhaps I am wrong. Next thing Duard will say
          is "Brilliant conclusion!" and if he says this then I am wrong, he is
          right, and he is wrong and I am right.

          Sickening Circles
        • eduard at home
          bookend, I don t see what your problem is here. All that is apparent is that I am continuing to say day, what I said yesterday. I would presume that you are
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 29 11:20 AM
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            bookend,

            I don't see what your problem is here. All that is apparent
            is that I am continuing to say day, what I said yesterday.
            I would presume that you are upset about Chris, considering
            that he is still talking about Existentialism -- since 1987
            or something.

            I would suggest that the circles are yours, dear friend ...

            eduard

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Knott" <god@...>
            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:37 PM
            Subject: [existlist] Re: Generalities


            > From 'Duard in response to my first post in 3/2001.
            >
            > > my reading so far has brought me to the conclusion
            > > that we are indeed "wired for spirituality" ....
            > > i would recommend that you read "The 3-Pound
            > > Universe" by Judith Hooper and Dick Teresi ...
            >
            > Always assume the other person is an idiot (before and
            after proven
            > to be) and not as well read as you...Don't ever base your
            conclusions
            > on anything, except what you want to believe (but don't
            allow others
            > the same choice)...Require proof, provide none.
            >
            > This same discussion and series of events that has gone on
            for
            > literal years now. You'd think it predictable...yet I keep
            expecting
            > change. Either I am too stupid to see the pattern, or
            there is enough
            > in human will that says to me "I can't be sure he'll say
            the same
            > thing over and over." Perhaps I am wrong. Next thing Duard
            will say
            > is "Brilliant conclusion!" and if he says this then I am
            wrong, he is
            > right, and he is wrong and I am right.
            >
            > Sickening Circles
            >
            >
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          • Knott
            ... Ignoring willfully the smell of pee. Fugging Gnutts
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 29 1:33 PM
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              > I am continuing to say day, what I said yesterday.

              Ignoring willfully the smell of pee.

              Fugging Gnutts
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