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logical positivist

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  • Eduard Alf
    Well, having been called the name, I managed to look it up.
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 2, 2002
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      Well, having been called the name, I managed to
      look it up.

      << logical positivist n : someone who maintains
      that any statement that cannot be verified
      empirically is meaningless >>

      hmmmm ... I really don't think that is it. It is
      not the case that everything has to be verified
      empirically. Some things cant be verified by any
      method. I should think that if a statement is to
      be made, then it should something understandable.
      Well, perhaps not understandable, since one might
      expect that understanding does not always come. I
      guess the thing is that statements should have a
      certain clarity.

      eduard
    • Tony
      I was not exactly categorizing you as a logical positivist. What was meant by my statement was that you were not close to being a logical positivist, which by
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2, 2002
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        I was not exactly categorizing you as a logical positivist. What was meant
        by my statement was that you were not close to being a logical positivist,
        which by the way is a movement in the early to mid 20th century of
        philosophers (Carnap, early Witt, among others) who believed all statements
        were meaningless unless empirical provable after being
        dismantled/transformed into symbolic logic. This is a school of thought for
        the most part dead in philosophy today, but was a movement that has
        contributed to the modern analytic branch. The analytics contend that
        clarity and logic are the methods to which truth is found, philosophy being
        an under-laborer to science. The positivists are seen today as overly strict
        in their methods to inquire about the meaning and truthfulness in
        statements.

        Basically, I was alluding to you use of reason and critique to acquire some
        final understanding from book's statements without regressing into scientism
        (The positivists were typically referred to as dogmatists of the science
        kind)

        Sincerely,
        Tony.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
        To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 7:27 PM
        Subject: [existlist] logical positivist


        > Well, having been called the name, I managed to
        > look it up.
        >
        > << logical positivist n : someone who maintains
        > that any statement that cannot be verified
        > empirically is meaningless >>
        >
        > hmmmm ... I really don't think that is it. It is
        > not the case that everything has to be verified
        > empirically. Some things cant be verified by any
        > method. I should think that if a statement is to
        > be made, then it should something understandable.
        > Well, perhaps not understandable, since one might
        > expect that understanding does not always come. I
        > guess the thing is that statements should have a
        > certain clarity.
        >
        > eduard
        >
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
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      • Eduard Alf
        hi Tony, At first I thought that logical positivist might be right. But then it did not fit. Perhaps there is something else. Perhaps pragmatist . I am
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2, 2002
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          hi Tony,

          At first I thought that "logical positivist" might
          be right. But then it did not fit. Perhaps there
          is something else. Perhaps "pragmatist". I am
          not sure. I am a NOOist [from the philosophy],
          but I am looking for some other term. NOOism
          accepts that any fantasy is Ok as long as it keeps
          your neurons happy; floats your boat; puts blood
          in your veins ... etc. etc.

          I see that Bush has approved the burial of nuclear
          waste at Nevada's Yucca Mountain. It wont be safe
          until 12,002. Makes me wonder what life will be
          like in 12,002. Assuming of course that we are
          still here on earth.

          eduard
        • Nick A
          Isn t this kind of the definition of escapism? ... Huh... Anyways, one thing everyone on this list is missing about the difference between hard and soft
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2, 2002
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            Isn't this kind of the definition of escapism?

            > not sure. I am a NOOist [from the philosophy],
            > but I am looking for some other term. NOOism
            > accepts that any fantasy is Ok as long as it keeps
            > your neurons happy; floats your boat; puts blood
            > in your veins ... etc. etc.

            Huh... Anyways, one thing everyone on this list is missing about the
            difference between "hard" and "soft" sciences...

            Is 2 things-

            1. There is also art.

            2. Time travels at different rates when you are engaged in one "form" of
            science or another... (I think)

            Sit down and do a big chemical engineering problem...Or write a graphics
            engine in C.

            Sit down and write a paper on observed reactions of people when in a
            simulated crashed airplaine. Or do some classic Pavlovian experiments..

            Your mind (or whatever) is going to be observing time pass in very different
            ways...

            OR make some great art ~ time stands still.
          • Eduard Alf
            Nick,
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 3, 2002
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              Nick,

              << Isn't this kind of the definition of escapism?
              >>

              Well, not of NOOism itself. But NOOism recognizes
              that people like to "escape". Life can to an
              extent be boring and we all cant be Tarzan's
              swinging from vine to vine in the jungle.

              Of course the idea of keeping your neurons happy,
              looks at both sides of the coin. If you take your
              means of escape as reality, such that it causes
              harm to others [e.g. a religion bent on world
              domination], then you cant really keep your
              neurons happy. Perhaps in the short run you can
              fool yourself into thinking so, but eventually it
              turns against you.

              As to the "2 things" ...

              1) All science is art. And in a sense all art is
              science [in the way of having a method].

              2) That time should travel at different rates is
              only the way in which we happen to perceive it.
              Which I take as your point.

              eduard
            • Bill Harris
              Eduard, Another recent article shows a relation between endogenous cannabinoids and extenction of adversive memories. Happy neurons, but you might forget to
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 5, 2002
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                Eduard, Another recent article shows a relation between endogenous
                cannabinoids and extenction of adversive memories. Happy neurons, but you
                might forget to run from the wolf. Bill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 7:46 PM
                Subject: RE: [existlist] logical positivist


                > hi Tony,
                >
                > At first I thought that "logical positivist" might
                > be right. But then it did not fit. Perhaps there
                > is something else. Perhaps "pragmatist". I am
                > not sure. I am a NOOist [from the philosophy],
                > but I am looking for some other term. NOOism
                > accepts that any fantasy is Ok as long as it keeps
                > your neurons happy; floats your boat; puts blood
                > in your veins ... etc. etc.
                >
                > I see that Bush has approved the burial of nuclear
                > waste at Nevada's Yucca Mountain. It wont be safe
                > until 12,002. Makes me wonder what life will be
                > like in 12,002. Assuming of course that we are
                > still here on earth.
                >
                > eduard
                >
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Eduard Alf
                Bill, Where are you reading all this??
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 5, 2002
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                  Bill,

                  << Another recent article shows a relation between
                  endogenous cannabinoids and extinction of
                  adversive memories. >>

                  Where are you reading all this??

                  Anyway ... good to know. I have the feeling that
                  people tend to like their adverse memories and
                  keep running through them so that they are fresh.
                  They say that dreams are really our brain's method
                  of deleting miscellaneous stuff, like one of those
                  Norton software things that goes through your
                  computer drive and gets rid of all the junk files
                  that have accumulated.

                  eduard
                • Bill Harris
                  WEduard, does it not strike you as strange that an animal species and a plant secrete such similar substances? Both are psychoactive, have impact on short term
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 5, 2002
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                    WEduard, does it not strike you as strange that an animal species and a
                    plant secrete such similar substances? Both are psychoactive, have impact on
                    short term memory, yet we are given to believe that only the endogenous
                    variety`s effects can have survival benefits for the animal organism. And
                    just when you thought it safe to trust the war on drugs. Bill
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                    To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 3:13 PM
                    Subject: [existlist] memories are made of this ...


                    > Bill,
                    >
                    > << Another recent article shows a relation between
                    > endogenous cannabinoids and extinction of
                    > adversive memories. >>
                    >
                    > Where are you reading all this??
                    >
                    > Anyway ... good to know. I have the feeling that
                    > people tend to like their adverse memories and
                    > keep running through them so that they are fresh.
                    > They say that dreams are really our brain's method
                    > of deleting miscellaneous stuff, like one of those
                    > Norton software things that goes through your
                    > computer drive and gets rid of all the junk files
                    > that have accumulated.
                    >
                    > eduard
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                    > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                    >
                    > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                    > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Eduard Alf
                    Bill, Lots of interesting and strange things in the world. Someone once told me that if you get caught in some nettles, then there is a second plant which
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 5, 2002
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                      Bill,

                      Lots of interesting and strange things in the
                      world. Someone once told me that if you get
                      caught in some nettles, then there is a second
                      plant which usually grows next to it which cure
                      the sting of the nettles. I wasn't listening that
                      much, at the time, so I could not tell you what
                      the second plant is ... but I find it interesting.

                      Perhaps with respect to the psychoactive
                      substance, early man found it useful, so he
                      replicated the substance in his own body.

                      I read somewhere that they found a "bad boy gene".
                      Seems it is in our DNA, but is only activated when
                      a child is abused in some fashion. What strikes
                      me about that is somehow we are able from our
                      mental condition to cause a change in our makeup.
                      It makes me think that there may be all sorts of
                      triggers that we might set off by ourselves.

                      eduard
                    • elbookdoc
                      Bill, you don t mean to suggest your poppies are hallucinating, do you? nunsuch
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 6, 2002
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                        <<plant secrete such similar substances? >>

                        Bill,

                        you don't mean to suggest your poppies are hallucinating, do you?

                        nunsuch
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