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Re: [WisdomForum] Descarte's folly

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  • james tan
    thanks for the clarification. i was thinking along the line of husserl s exposition of the structure of consciousness, whether consciousness can be
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 1, 2002
      thanks for the clarification. i was thinking along the line of husserl's
      exposition of the structure of consciousness, whether consciousness can be
      'quantified'. is it a matter of difference in degree or kind between say a
      schizo and a 'normal' people..


      From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@...>
      Reply-To: WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com
      To: "Wisdom Forum" <WisdomForum@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [WisdomForum] Descarte's folly
      Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:02:31 -0700

      To be "catatonic" is usally defined, according to the Encarta Dictionary,
      1. in state resembling trance: in a state of inertia or apparent stupor
      often associated with schizophrenia and characterized by rigidity of the

      2. in drunken stupor: in a stupefied or unconscious state, especially one
      caused by drunkenness (informal)
      If the focus is on the individuals physical behavior and manifestations such
      as inertia and muscle rigidity, it is entirely possible that the apparent
      catatonia may not reflect in any way on the person's state of consciousness.
      They may be fully conscious but unmoving. Of course, it's also possible
      that the person's inertia may be due to a lack of consciousness.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: james tan
      Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:32 AM
      To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [WisdomForum] Descarte's folly

      is catatonic patient lacking in conciousness? how do u know? what do u mean
      by consciousness in the first place? the difference between u and a
      catatonic patient may not be one of u having 'more' consciousness, but that
      for every particular phenomena u and that patient perceive, both of u may
      impute meaning to it differently. eg, seeing a man in black coat may have
      different meaning for u and her, do not assume that such phenomena as
      absolute and the same for everybody, much less assuming that she has
      'lesser' consciousness than u just because she is catatonic or
      schizophrenic. what do u think?


      From: "Elaine" <lizral@...>
      Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [Sartre] Descarte's folly
      Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:45:43 +1000

      > If I claim that I lack consciousness, how
      > can you prove me wrong?

      One could say that the catatonic patient has a lack of consciousness, yet
      consciousness is not restricted to verbal communication/ expression of
      conscious awareness. While treating some catatonic patents, R.D.Laing merely
      shared their physical space. He would sit with them in a padded cell and say
      absolutely nothing. However, within a short space of time, the patient would
      either begin to communicate verbally or show distinct signs of being
      consciously aware of the presence of the other.

      La Paz

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