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Re: [existlist] Do you think therefore you are?

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  • Nick A
    I believe the mind is part of the body... Everything in your life (whatever defines who am i ) is part of your body. It s possible to say you have a really
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 31, 2002
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      I believe the mind is part of the body... Everything in your life (whatever
      defines "who am i") is part of your body.

      It's possible to say "you have a really nice body" and be referring to a
      person's extraordinary skill at something. The fact that their mind is body
      means that the consciousness (or soul) is doing the controlling - and how
      refined the body is in that particular function is how successful the person
      will be in reality.

      Therefore science can and will be studying the mind until the end of time...
      We'll just keep getting closer and closer to infinite understanding ~ then
      boom it starts all over.

      If you want to know if your mind actually understands itself, you probably
      want to start with basic geometric principles and go from there...


      >
      > I agree the mind and body are two different things. The body can be
      studied by science as all matter can, but the mind is not made of matter
      i.e. atoms, cells, etc. so it can not be studied in the same way. That's
      where science fails. but the mind studying its self is also hard. how can
      one tell if its correct? or just wants to be correct?
      > Michael maguire wrote:
      >
      >
      > On:
      >
      > >I joined the club to ask others about what they think.
      > >I've read a great deal but I have to sit back and think do
      > >I agree. It depends on whom I'm reading. What about my question?
      > >Agree?
      > >
      >
      > No. Especially not on this list. Existence precedes essence.
      > True, what we are, and what we have become are agents that think. The
      > problem with the 'cogito ergo sum' argument though, is that it allows, or
      > rather is presupposes the separation of existence into two (unnecessarily)
      > distinct realms. As the specific argument goes, Descartes puts forth that
      > there exist two distinct 'kinds of stuff': res cogitans (thinking things)
      &
      > extended things. He never quite explains, though, how the two different
      > substances might interact which is a crucial error since, on his argument,
      > the body (& brain) is material (extended) while the 'mind' is immaterial
      > (thinking).
      >
      > mike
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Eduard Alf
      Nick, I don t think the mind is part of the body. Rather the body is an extension of the mind through the sensors of the body. It is sort of like a android,
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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        Nick,

        I don't think the mind is part of the body.
        Rather the body is an extension of the mind
        through the sensors of the body. It is sort of
        like a android, in the sense that the wiring which
        activates the arms and legs, and which returns
        sensations of touch, is of the central processor.
        But the steel and plastic of which the arms and
        legs are made of are not part of the processor.
        For the human, it may be difficult to make a
        separation. Flesh itself is so much a part of its
        sensors that it is hard tell which is which.

        Consciousness is the processing of the mind. The
        soul is that time when the neurons escape from the
        vault of the skull, as in dreaming. Nothing
        leaves the body, but instead our neurons create a
        world of their own, and escape into it. Because
        our neurons can escape and because we can at times
        remember that escape, we tend to fantasize that
        they have actually gone somewhere and thus we
        invent things like a heaven. This is facilitated
        by manner in which we view the dead. When we go
        to a funeral parlor and see the body, it begs the
        question of where the thing that previously
        animated it, in life, has gone to. This "thing"
        we associate with a "soul" and consider it to be
        an entity by itself. The Egyptians went to great
        lengths to protect the residing portion of the
        soul [the "Ba"] through mummifying the body and
        providing a shelter [pyramid] in which it could
        remain after death. But all of this is just
        fantasy ...

        eduard
      • Bill Harris
        Eduard, We have such a hangover from the body/mind myth. We do not seem to have a problem distinguishing adipose tissue from connective tissue. In both form
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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          Eduard, We have such a hangover from the body/mind myth. We do not seem to
          have a problem distinguishing adipose tissue from connective tissue. In both
          form and function we see them as separate tissue types. They cofunction
          within the organism. Yet when it comes to neural tissue we must reinject
          the old mysticism, the mind, the spirit. That is just crap.
          As far as organs that inspire awe the liver as a chemical detoxification
          plant is broad and remarkable in its function. The kidneys as a low
          temperature distillation plant rival the big catcrackers in efficiency.
          Most people do not know about the function of organs other than the brain.
          They think they understand the brain because of pop science, mystical
          interrelation, and association with computers. The brain does much more than
          think. Physiology is a subject few have studied. They should before
          launching off into half baked dissertations of conjecture about function of
          any organ. Bill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 4:42 AM
          Subject: RE: [existlist] Do you think therefore you are?


          > Nick,
          >
          > I don't think the mind is part of the body.
          > Rather the body is an extension of the mind
          > through the sensors of the body. It is sort of
          > like a android, in the sense that the wiring which
          > activates the arms and legs, and which returns
          > sensations of touch, is of the central processor.
          > But the steel and plastic of which the arms and
          > legs are made of are not part of the processor.
          > For the human, it may be difficult to make a
          > separation. Flesh itself is so much a part of its
          > sensors that it is hard tell which is which.
          >
          > Consciousness is the processing of the mind. The
          > soul is that time when the neurons escape from the
          > vault of the skull, as in dreaming. Nothing
          > leaves the body, but instead our neurons create a
          > world of their own, and escape into it. Because
          > our neurons can escape and because we can at times
          > remember that escape, we tend to fantasize that
          > they have actually gone somewhere and thus we
          > invent things like a heaven. This is facilitated
          > by manner in which we view the dead. When we go
          > to a funeral parlor and see the body, it begs the
          > question of where the thing that previously
          > animated it, in life, has gone to. This "thing"
          > we associate with a "soul" and consider it to be
          > an entity by itself. The Egyptians went to great
          > lengths to protect the residing portion of the
          > soul [the "Ba"] through mummifying the body and
          > providing a shelter [pyramid] in which it could
          > remain after death. But all of this is just
          > fantasy ...
          >
          > eduard
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Bill Harris
          Eduard, Something rather obscure underlines the effect of thought upon the evolution of the human species. Have you seen the numbers regarding breast cancer in
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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            Eduard, Something rather obscure underlines the effect of thought upon the
            evolution of the human species. Have you seen the numbers regarding breast
            cancer in Marin county California? Big increases in incidence and mortality
            with highly politicized theories as to the causality. The women are wealthy,
            and overwhelmingly liberal feminist in their lifestyles.
            In prehistoric times , forced migration might have caused association with
            a carcinogen. Now we may have a case of voluntary lifestyle choice causing
            deadly mutational change. The brain does not have to physically mutate to
            cause mutational circumstance to mortally mutate individuals. The choice to
            smoke is similar but has addictive components which clutter the causality.
            Use of the pill, selection against childbearing and breast feeding and
            menopausal hormone replacement all are risk factors identified with breast
            cancer. Or maybe it is something in the soil? Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 4:42 AM
            Subject: RE: [existlist] Do you think therefore you are?


            > Nick,
            >
            > I don't think the mind is part of the body.
            > Rather the body is an extension of the mind
            > through the sensors of the body. It is sort of
            > like a android, in the sense that the wiring which
            > activates the arms and legs, and which returns
            > sensations of touch, is of the central processor.
            > But the steel and plastic of which the arms and
            > legs are made of are not part of the processor.
            > For the human, it may be difficult to make a
            > separation. Flesh itself is so much a part of its
            > sensors that it is hard tell which is which.
            >
            > Consciousness is the processing of the mind. The
            > soul is that time when the neurons escape from the
            > vault of the skull, as in dreaming. Nothing
            > leaves the body, but instead our neurons create a
            > world of their own, and escape into it. Because
            > our neurons can escape and because we can at times
            > remember that escape, we tend to fantasize that
            > they have actually gone somewhere and thus we
            > invent things like a heaven. This is facilitated
            > by manner in which we view the dead. When we go
            > to a funeral parlor and see the body, it begs the
            > question of where the thing that previously
            > animated it, in life, has gone to. This "thing"
            > we associate with a "soul" and consider it to be
            > an entity by itself. The Egyptians went to great
            > lengths to protect the residing portion of the
            > soul [the "Ba"] through mummifying the body and
            > providing a shelter [pyramid] in which it could
            > remain after death. But all of this is just
            > fantasy ...
            >
            > eduard
            >
            >
            > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Nick A
            I think the pyramids were more than simply tombs...Didn t the ancients use them to align the stars or something? If the mind is not part of the body then how
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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              I think the pyramids were more than simply tombs...Didn't the ancients use
              them to align the stars or something?

              If the mind is not part of the body then how do I know if I even have a
              soul? Of course, presuming consciousness is simply cognition.

              By my definition, the body can be projected into other dimensions...


              > Nick,
              >
              > I don't think the mind is part of the body.
              > Rather the body is an extension of the mind
              > through the sensors of the body. It is sort of
              > like a android, in the sense that the wiring which
              > activates the arms and legs, and which returns
              > sensations of touch, is of the central processor.
              > But the steel and plastic of which the arms and
              > legs are made of are not part of the processor.
              > For the human, it may be difficult to make a
              > separation. Flesh itself is so much a part of its
              > sensors that it is hard tell which is which.
              >
              > Consciousness is the processing of the mind. The
              > soul is that time when the neurons escape from the
              > vault of the skull, as in dreaming. Nothing
              > leaves the body, but instead our neurons create a
              > world of their own, and escape into it. Because
              > our neurons can escape and because we can at times
              > remember that escape, we tend to fantasize that
              > they have actually gone somewhere and thus we
              > invent things like a heaven. This is facilitated
              > by manner in which we view the dead. When we go
              > to a funeral parlor and see the body, it begs the
              > question of where the thing that previously
              > animated it, in life, has gone to. This "thing"
              > we associate with a "soul" and consider it to be
              > an entity by itself. The Egyptians went to great
              > lengths to protect the residing portion of the
              > soul [the "Ba"] through mummifying the body and
              > providing a shelter [pyramid] in which it could
              > remain after death. But all of this is just
              > fantasy ...
              >
              > eduard
              >
              >
            • Eduard Alf
              Nick,
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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                Nick,

                << I think the pyramids were more than simply
                tombs...Didn't the ancients use them to align the
                stars or something? >>

                Yes, and some say that the hole that was provided
                for the "Ba" is orientated towards Orion. In my
                opinion, the pyramids are just a pile of rocks. A
                nice pile, no doubt, still just a pile. Any other
                purpose, is just the same as Van Daniken's theory
                that the markings on the Nazca plain in Peru were
                to serve as landing strips for aliens.

                << If the mind is not part of the body then how do
                I know if I even have a soul? >>

                You don't know. What was the last time that you
                actually encountered your own soul?? I would
                presume, like everyone else, you have never
                encountered your soul. There are only two
                possibilities. Either it is awfully good at hiding
                or it does not exist.

                << By my definition, the body can be projected
                into other dimensions... >>

                In my opinion, that is an impossibility. Granted,
                it is a nice thought.

                eduard
              • Tony
                Eduard you are really a nice guy, I mean, you speak in euphemism just to clear the air of any hostility. I respect that. However, a disembodied mind? How could
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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                  Eduard you are really a nice guy, I mean, you speak in euphemism just to
                  clear the air of any hostility. I respect that. However, a disembodied mind?
                  How could anyone even discuss this idea? The mind is merely the brain,
                  nothing more. And projecting the body into other dimensions? Granted, some
                  theorists have incorporated a model of the universe in which more then 4
                  dimensions exist, yet how could we ever speak about projecting our bodies
                  into these other speculative dimensions?

                  Sincerely,
                  Tony.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                  To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:19 PM
                  Subject: RE: [existlist] Do you think therefore you are?


                  > Nick,
                  >
                  > << I think the pyramids were more than simply
                  > tombs...Didn't the ancients use them to align the
                  > stars or something? >>
                  >
                  > Yes, and some say that the hole that was provided
                  > for the "Ba" is orientated towards Orion. In my
                  > opinion, the pyramids are just a pile of rocks. A
                  > nice pile, no doubt, still just a pile. Any other
                  > purpose, is just the same as Van Daniken's theory
                  > that the markings on the Nazca plain in Peru were
                  > to serve as landing strips for aliens.
                  >
                  > << If the mind is not part of the body then how do
                  > I know if I even have a soul? >>
                  >
                  > You don't know. What was the last time that you
                  > actually encountered your own soul?? I would
                  > presume, like everyone else, you have never
                  > encountered your soul. There are only two
                  > possibilities. Either it is awfully good at hiding
                  > or it does not exist.
                  >
                  > << By my definition, the body can be projected
                  > into other dimensions... >>
                  >
                  > In my opinion, that is an impossibility. Granted,
                  > it is a nice thought.
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >
                  >
                  > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                  > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                  >
                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                  > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Eduard Alf
                  Tony, I agree. Most of this talk of other dimensions is based upon small particle theory. I think the last count was 11 dimensions [ I could be wrong] all
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 1, 2002
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                    Tony,

                    I agree. Most of this talk of other dimensions is
                    based upon small particle theory. I think the
                    last count was 11 dimensions [ I could be wrong]
                    all nicely coiled up in some fashion. I don't
                    discount that sort of theory, since it has no
                    impact upon me personally. I might think twice
                    about, however, if some scientist comes up with a
                    way of moving a camel to some other dimension
                    [whatever that may be].

                    But then my NOOism philosophy will accept it as a
                    nice fantasy, if that keeps your neurons happy ...

                    eduard

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Tony [mailto:tylerdurden12@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:18 PM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] Do you think therefore
                    you are?


                    Eduard you are really a nice guy, I mean, you
                    speak in euphemism just to
                    clear the air of any hostility. I respect that.
                    However, a disembodied mind?
                    How could anyone even discuss this idea? The mind
                    is merely the brain,
                    nothing more. And projecting the body into other
                    dimensions? Granted, some
                    theorists have incorporated a model of the
                    universe in which more then 4
                    dimensions exist, yet how could we ever speak
                    about projecting our bodies
                    into these other speculative dimensions?

                    Sincerely,
                    Tony.
                  • Bill Harris
                    Tony, good thinking. Bill ... From: Tony To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:18 PM Subject: Re:
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 2, 2002
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                      Tony, good thinking. Bill
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Tony" <tylerdurden12@...>
                      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:18 PM
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] Do you think therefore you are?


                      > Eduard you are really a nice guy, I mean, you speak in euphemism just to
                      > clear the air of any hostility. I respect that. However, a disembodied
                      mind?
                      > How could anyone even discuss this idea? The mind is merely the brain,
                      > nothing more. And projecting the body into other dimensions? Granted,
                      some
                      > theorists have incorporated a model of the universe in which more then 4
                      > dimensions exist, yet how could we ever speak about projecting our bodies
                      > into these other speculative dimensions?
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      > Tony.
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:19 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [existlist] Do you think therefore you are?
                      >
                      >
                      > > Nick,
                      > >
                      > > << I think the pyramids were more than simply
                      > > tombs...Didn't the ancients use them to align the
                      > > stars or something? >>
                      > >
                      > > Yes, and some say that the hole that was provided
                      > > for the "Ba" is orientated towards Orion. In my
                      > > opinion, the pyramids are just a pile of rocks. A
                      > > nice pile, no doubt, still just a pile. Any other
                      > > purpose, is just the same as Van Daniken's theory
                      > > that the markings on the Nazca plain in Peru were
                      > > to serve as landing strips for aliens.
                      > >
                      > > << If the mind is not part of the body then how do
                      > > I know if I even have a soul? >>
                      > >
                      > > You don't know. What was the last time that you
                      > > actually encountered your own soul?? I would
                      > > presume, like everyone else, you have never
                      > > encountered your soul. There are only two
                      > > possibilities. Either it is awfully good at hiding
                      > > or it does not exist.
                      > >
                      > > << By my definition, the body can be projected
                      > > into other dimensions... >>
                      > >
                      > > In my opinion, that is an impossibility. Granted,
                      > > it is a nice thought.
                      > >
                      > > eduard
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                      > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                      > >
                      > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                      > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                      > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                      >
                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
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