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Re: [existlist] dislike sex

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  • laneyluv18@aol.com
    Dear M.I. Clear, In a recent post you said that you doubt it would be possible to dislike sex. I just thought that you might like to know that it is. I
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 3, 2002
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      Dear M.I. Clear,
      In a recent post you said that you "doubt it would be possible to
      dislike sex." I just thought that you might like to know that it is. I
      dislike it strongly. I find it disgusting and degrading (be it with parter/s
      male or female). I know this is a very warped perspective, but it is possible
      to dislike sex.
      -Lena



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charles
      Lena, When I wrote my post I was just trying to make a point with Bookdoc and I have known exceptional cases in which this is the true, that some people don t
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 3, 2002
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        Lena,

        When I wrote my post I was just trying to
        make a point with Bookdoc and I have known
        exceptional cases
        in which this is the true, that some people
        don't like sex. For what I can perceive, your
        personal perspective
        is just purely mystical, if not religious.
        Your post reminds me of Plotinus who even
        disliked his own body. And
        I consider your point of view perfectly
        normal. Spiritual tendencies usually head on
        that direction; I would not
        be surprised if you are a vegetarian as well.
        However, I just have one question: why do you
        find it disgusting
        and degrading considering your role within
        the species? Flesh can be gross at certain
        times, but it can be
        also very atractive. You might want to take a
        look Shopenhauher's "Methaphysical Love of
        the Sexes".

        Charles


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <laneyluv18@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:48 PM
        Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


        Dear M.I. Clear,
        In a recent post you said that you "doubt
        it would be possible to
        dislike sex." I just thought that you might
        like to know that it is. I
        dislike it strongly. I find it disgusting and
        degrading (be it with parter/s
        male or female). I know this is a very warped
        perspective, but it is possible
        to dislike sex.
        -Lena



        [Non-text portions of this message have been
        removed]


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      • David Withun
        um...are you sure you re doing it right...? ... _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 4, 2002
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          um...are you sure you're doing it right...?


          >From: laneyluv18@...
          >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
          >Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:48:53 EDT
          >
          >Dear M.I. Clear,
          > In a recent post you said that you "doubt it would be possible to
          >dislike sex." I just thought that you might like to know that it is. I
          >dislike it strongly. I find it disgusting and degrading (be it with
          >parter/s
          >male or female). I know this is a very warped perspective, but it is
          >possible
          >to dislike sex.
          >-Lena
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          _________________________________________________________________
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        • Eduard Alf
          Charles, Western culture is so wrapped up in sex that it is seemingly impossible to think that someone might not like it. Or simply not have an interest so as
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 4, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Charles,

            Western culture is so wrapped up in sex that it is
            seemingly impossible to think that someone might
            not like it. Or simply not have an interest so as
            to be inclined to participate.

            There can be a lot of disadvantages to sex. It is
            accompanied by smells and fluids which in some
            ways can be a real turn-off. And then there is
            the appearance of commitment that is generated.
            Sure, there is that idea of casual sex, but it
            really does not work out that way. After all that
            effort to manoeuvre him/her to the bed, one has
            the tendency to think that this has some meaning
            as to relationship and stuff. The freedom that
            enabled the pursuit, in the first place, is gone
            in a flash.

            And then there is the question of what to do after
            the fact ... sort of the anti-climax after the
            climax. You worshipped her from afar and the
            dance of getting one piece of clothing off at a
            time was a real treat. But having done the deed,
            will she never leave? ... I need the sleep. ...
            He snores like a locomotive.

            Sex is not all it is built up to be. Perhaps I
            should become a monk and contemplate life from my
            cell ...

            eduard



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Charles [mailto:cvas2002@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:56 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


            Lena,

            When I wrote my post I was just trying to
            make a point with Bookdoc and I have known
            exceptional cases
            in which this is the true, that some people
            don't like sex. For what I can perceive, your
            personal perspective
            is just purely mystical, if not religious.
            Your post reminds me of Plotinus who even
            disliked his own body. And
            I consider your point of view perfectly
            normal. Spiritual tendencies usually head on
            that direction; I would not
            be surprised if you are a vegetarian as well.
            However, I just have one question: why do you
            find it disgusting
            and degrading considering your role within
            the species? Flesh can be gross at certain
            times, but it can be
            also very atractive. You might want to take a
            look Shopenhauher's "Methaphysical Love of
            the Sexes".

            Charles
          • Charles
            Eduard, I don t think that your neurons woudl be to happy by becoming a monk and contemplating life from a cell. It is not only the Western culture, but the
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 4, 2002
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              Eduard,

              I don't think that your neurons woudl be to
              happy by becoming a monk and "contemplating"
              life from a cell.
              It is not only the Western culture, but the
              Eastern culture as well that is wrapped up in
              sex; it is a world wide
              event, the animal instinct that is rootted in
              every form of life. For humans, smells and
              fluids can be turn-ons
              too; certain perfumes have this peculiar
              charateristic. If some people don't like sex,
              it is just fine with me, and
              that's where I agree with Lena (that's is her
              way of being). Your more like Sartrean view
              of this issue has
              a lot of merit and I happen to agree with
              that too. Perhaps, the best part is the
              courtship alone, since the
              culmination of the sexual act is an ideal out
              of reach and doomed to failure.

              Freud however, based his whole theory of
              psychoanlysis on sexuality. Indeed, the
              source of creativity in all
              fields he explained by means of the
              sublimation of this store of energy into
              accepted and fruitful channels.
              Neurosis occurs when the normal
              repression-sublimation channel doesn't
              function for some reason;
              normalcy could be obtained through
              psychoanlysis. Among the most troublesome and
              standard of the
              repressed contents are those centering around
              incestuous relations, especially the Oedipus
              and Electra
              complexes.

              One means of avoiding both individual
              neurosis and maturity is the practice of
              religion. Religion is the
              projection of the father with his
              prohibitions and commands into cosmic
              dimensions. Through religion,
              one is able to insure oneself the security of
              childhood in adult life, and to prolong one's
              infancy throughout
              life. By clinging to an illusion, by
              participating in a mass neurosis, one may
              often escape individual
              neurosis.

              Maturity, for Freud, would consist, however,
              in substituting a reality principle for the
              comfort or discomfort
              of all illusions, and a pleasure principle,
              taking sexual fulfillment as its paradigm, as
              the goal of life. (sometimes I believe and
              sometimes I don't belive in all this
              nonsense.)

              Charles




              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
              To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 6:47 AM
              Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex


              Charles,

              Western culture is so wrapped up in sex that
              it is
              seemingly impossible to think that someone
              might
              not like it. Or simply not have an interest
              so as
              to be inclined to participate.

              There can be a lot of disadvantages to sex.
              It is
              accompanied by smells and fluids which in
              some
              ways can be a real turn-off. And then there
              is
              the appearance of commitment that is
              generated.
              Sure, there is that idea of casual sex, but
              it
              really does not work out that way. After all
              that
              effort to manoeuvre him/her to the bed, one
              has
              the tendency to think that this has some
              meaning
              as to relationship and stuff. The freedom
              that
              enabled the pursuit, in the first place, is
              gone
              in a flash.

              And then there is the question of what to do
              after
              the fact ... sort of the anti-climax after
              the
              climax. You worshipped her from afar and the
              dance of getting one piece of clothing off at
              a
              time was a real treat. But having done the
              deed,
              will she never leave? ... I need the sleep.
              ...
              He snores like a locomotive.

              Sex is not all it is built up to be. Perhaps
              I
              should become a monk and contemplate life
              from my
              cell ...

              eduard



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Charles [mailto:cvas2002@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:56 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


              Lena,

              When I wrote my post I was just trying to
              make a point with Bookdoc and I have known
              exceptional cases
              in which this is the true, that some people
              don't like sex. For what I can perceive, your
              personal perspective
              is just purely mystical, if not religious.
              Your post reminds me of Plotinus who even
              disliked his own body. And
              I consider your point of view perfectly
              normal. Spiritual tendencies usually head on
              that direction; I would not
              be surprised if you are a vegetarian as well.
              However, I just have one question: why do you
              find it disgusting
              and degrading considering your role within
              the species? Flesh can be gross at certain
              times, but it can be
              also very atractive. You might want to take a
              look Shopenhauher's "Methaphysical Love of
              the Sexes".

              Charles


              ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

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              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              (Includes community book list, chat, and
              more.)

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            • Eduard Alf
              Charles, I agree that sex is everywhere. But one could choose to not indulge oneself and this opens up other possibilities for self improvement. Like George
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 4, 2002
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                Charles,

                I agree that sex is everywhere.

                But one could choose to not indulge oneself and
                this opens up other possibilities for self
                improvement. Like George on Seinfeld who gives up
                sex and thus releases the 90% of his mind for
                learning.

                Sex causes all sorts of problems. I invited a
                female friend over for Friday afternoon, and now I
                realise that I have to clean up the place and will
                need to think about what I might do to entertain
                her.

                eduard


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Charles [mailto:cvas2002@...]
                Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:07 PM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                Eduard,

                I don't think that your neurons woudl be to
                happy by becoming a monk and "contemplating"
                life from a cell.
                It is not only the Western culture, but the
                Eastern culture as well that is wrapped up in
                sex; it is a world wide
                event, the animal instinct that is rootted in
                every form of life. For humans, smells and
                fluids can be turn-ons
                too; certain perfumes have this peculiar
                charateristic. If some people don't like sex,
                it is just fine with me, and
                that's where I agree with Lena (that's is her
                way of being). Your more like Sartrean view
                of this issue has
                a lot of merit and I happen to agree with
                that too. Perhaps, the best part is the
                courtship alone, since the
                culmination of the sexual act is an ideal out
                of reach and doomed to failure.

                Freud however, based his whole theory of
                psychoanlysis on sexuality. Indeed, the
                source of creativity in all
                fields he explained by means of the
                sublimation of this store of energy into
                accepted and fruitful channels.
                Neurosis occurs when the normal
                repression-sublimation channel doesn't
                function for some reason;
                normalcy could be obtained through
                psychoanlysis. Among the most troublesome and
                standard of the
                repressed contents are those centering around
                incestuous relations, especially the Oedipus
                and Electra
                complexes.

                One means of avoiding both individual
                neurosis and maturity is the practice of
                religion. Religion is the
                projection of the father with his
                prohibitions and commands into cosmic
                dimensions. Through religion,
                one is able to insure oneself the security of
                childhood in adult life, and to prolong one's
                infancy throughout
                life. By clinging to an illusion, by
                participating in a mass neurosis, one may
                often escape individual
                neurosis.

                Maturity, for Freud, would consist, however,
                in substituting a reality principle for the
                comfort or discomfort
                of all illusions, and a pleasure principle,
                taking sexual fulfillment as its paradigm, as
                the goal of life. (sometimes I believe and
                sometimes I don't belive in all this
                nonsense.)

                Charles




                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 6:47 AM
                Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex


                Charles,

                Western culture is so wrapped up in sex that
                it is
                seemingly impossible to think that someone
                might
                not like it. Or simply not have an interest
                so as
                to be inclined to participate.

                There can be a lot of disadvantages to sex.
                It is
                accompanied by smells and fluids which in
                some
                ways can be a real turn-off. And then there
                is
                the appearance of commitment that is
                generated.
                Sure, there is that idea of casual sex, but
                it
                really does not work out that way. After all
                that
                effort to manoeuvre him/her to the bed, one
                has
                the tendency to think that this has some
                meaning
                as to relationship and stuff. The freedom
                that
                enabled the pursuit, in the first place, is
                gone
                in a flash.

                And then there is the question of what to do
                after
                the fact ... sort of the anti-climax after
                the
                climax. You worshipped her from afar and the
                dance of getting one piece of clothing off at
                a
                time was a real treat. But having done the
                deed,
                will she never leave? ... I need the sleep.
                ...
                He snores like a locomotive.

                Sex is not all it is built up to be. Perhaps
                I
                should become a monk and contemplate life
                from my
                cell ...

                eduard



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Charles [mailto:cvas2002@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:56 PM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                Lena,

                When I wrote my post I was just trying to
                make a point with Bookdoc and I have known
                exceptional cases
                in which this is the true, that some people
                don't like sex. For what I can perceive, your
                personal perspective
                is just purely mystical, if not religious.
                Your post reminds me of Plotinus who even
                disliked his own body. And
                I consider your point of view perfectly
                normal. Spiritual tendencies usually head on
                that direction; I would not
                be surprised if you are a vegetarian as well.
                However, I just have one question: why do you
                find it disgusting
                and degrading considering your role within
                the species? Flesh can be gross at certain
                times, but it can be
                also very atractive. You might want to take a
                look Shopenhauher's "Methaphysical Love of
                the Sexes".

                Charles


                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

                Our Home:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                (Includes community book list, chat, and
                more.)

                TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
                to:
                existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

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              • adam robertson
                lena, it is a shame that your reality has been tainted to the point that you cant enjoy sharing yourself with another. I will understand if you dont want to
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 4, 2002
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                  lena,

                  it is a shame that your reality has been tainted to the point that you cant
                  enjoy sharing yourself with another. I will understand if you dont want to
                  respond, but can i ask why you dislike sexual intimacy?

                  Adam


                  >From: "David Withun" <dpwithun1986@...>
                  >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                  >Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 06:43:07 -0400
                  >
                  >um...are you sure you're doing it right...?
                  >
                  >
                  > >From: laneyluv18@...
                  > >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                  > >Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:48:53 EDT
                  > >
                  > >Dear M.I. Clear,
                  > > In a recent post you said that you "doubt it would be possible to
                  > >dislike sex." I just thought that you might like to know that it is. I
                  > >dislike it strongly. I find it disgusting and degrading (be it with
                  > >parter/s
                  > >male or female). I know this is a very warped perspective, but it is
                  > >possible
                  > >to dislike sex.
                  > >-Lena
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >_________________________________________________________________
                  >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                  >




                  _________________________________________________________________
                  MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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                • laneyluv18@aol.com
                  Adam, Psychologically I am sure it all makes sense. I feel about intimacy the way a little kid does, it s gross. I guess I just reverted back to this state
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 5, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Adam,
                    Psychologically I am sure it all makes sense. I feel about intimacy the way a
                    little kid does, it's "gross." I guess I just reverted back to this state
                    (although I am not really sure if I ever grew out of it) after some
                    incredibly bad experiences. It has all left me numb. I really don't feel. Sex
                    seems dirty, shameful and disgusting to me, and no pleasure can ever be
                    gained from it. I know that is really messed up.
                    -Lena


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eduard Alf
                    Lena, That is your choice .. you should not think of it as being messed up . There is more to life than just sex. Many people in history chose not to
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 6, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Lena,

                      That is your choice .. you should not think of it
                      as being "messed up". There is more to life than
                      just sex. Many people in history chose not to
                      indulge in sex; probably for the same reasons as
                      you have given. I am seriously thinking of giving
                      it up myself. I had a female friend over to the
                      house yesterday, and it was refreshing to just
                      talk about things rather than to think of some
                      tactic to have sex.

                      eduard

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: laneyluv18@...
                      [mailto:laneyluv18@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:22 AM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                      Adam,
                      Psychologically I am sure it all makes sense. I
                      feel about intimacy the way a
                      little kid does, it's "gross." I guess I just
                      reverted back to this state
                      (although I am not really sure if I ever grew out
                      of it) after some
                      incredibly bad experiences. It has all left me
                      numb. I really don't feel. Sex
                      seems dirty, shameful and disgusting to me, and no
                      pleasure can ever be
                      gained from it. I know that is really messed up.
                      -Lena


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      removed]


                      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups

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                    • nick a
                      Sex tactic: Hey baby, wanna do it? ... From: Eduard Alf To: Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 8:01 AM
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 6, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sex tactic: "Hey baby, wanna do it?"

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 8:01 AM
                        Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex


                        > Lena,
                        >
                        > That is your choice .. you should not think of it
                        > as being "messed up". There is more to life than
                        > just sex. Many people in history chose not to
                        > indulge in sex; probably for the same reasons as
                        > you have given. I am seriously thinking of giving
                        > it up myself. I had a female friend over to the
                        > house yesterday, and it was refreshing to just
                        > talk about things rather than to think of some
                        > tactic to have sex.
                        >
                        > eduard
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: laneyluv18@...
                        > [mailto:laneyluv18@...]
                        > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:22 AM
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                        >
                        >
                        > Adam,
                        > Psychologically I am sure it all makes sense. I
                        > feel about intimacy the way a
                        > little kid does, it's "gross." I guess I just
                        > reverted back to this state
                        > (although I am not really sure if I ever grew out
                        > of it) after some
                        > incredibly bad experiences. It has all left me
                        > numb. I really don't feel. Sex
                        > seems dirty, shameful and disgusting to me, and no
                        > pleasure can ever be
                        > gained from it. I know that is really messed up.
                        > -Lena
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                        >
                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
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                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Eduard Alf
                        That s much too crude, Nick. No wonder people get turned off .... eduard ... From: nick a [mailto:res0nthw@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:28 PM
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 6, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          That's much too crude, Nick. No wonder people
                          get turned off ....

                          eduard

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: nick a [mailto:res0nthw@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:28 PM
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                          Sex tactic: "Hey baby, wanna do it?"

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 8:01 AM
                          Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex


                          > Lena,
                          >
                          > That is your choice .. you should not think of
                          it
                          > as being "messed up". There is more to life
                          than
                          > just sex. Many people in history chose not to
                          > indulge in sex; probably for the same reasons as
                          > you have given. I am seriously thinking of
                          giving
                          > it up myself. I had a female friend over to the
                          > house yesterday, and it was refreshing to just
                          > talk about things rather than to think of some
                          > tactic to have sex.
                          >
                          > eduard
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: laneyluv18@...
                          > [mailto:laneyluv18@...]
                          > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:22 AM
                          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                          >
                          >
                          > Adam,
                          > Psychologically I am sure it all makes sense. I
                          > feel about intimacy the way a
                          > little kid does, it's "gross." I guess I just
                          > reverted back to this state
                          > (although I am not really sure if I ever grew
                          out
                          > of it) after some
                          > incredibly bad experiences. It has all left me
                          > numb. I really don't feel. Sex
                          > seems dirty, shameful and disgusting to me, and
                          no
                          > pleasure can ever be
                          > gained from it. I know that is really messed up.
                          > -Lena
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >
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                        • laneyluv18@aol.com
                          Eduard, Sex does seem rather beastly. It is an animal urge. I cannot associate it with love (although I am not sure love really exists the way others
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                            Eduard,
                            Sex does seem rather beastly. It is an animal urge. I cannot associate it
                            with "love" (although I am not sure "love" really exists the way others
                            describe it, having never experienced it myself). Having sex with someone
                            seems like something you would do with someone that you hate. If I really
                            respected someone, I would never get intimate in a sexual way with them. Sex
                            is a body thing, I want to focus more on the mind.
                            -Lena


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Eduard Alf
                            Lena, Depends upon what you want to get out of it. I can see sex within the context of love. But once you have sex with a woman [my opinion] then you are
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                              Lena,

                              Depends upon what you want to get out of it. I
                              can see sex within the context of love. But once
                              you have sex with a woman [my opinion] then you
                              are trapped in a relationship for which their are
                              certain expectations. There is a loss of freedom
                              ... which for some people, I suppose is Ok. The
                              old expression of, "will you respect me in the
                              morning" is really a code for, "will you allow me
                              to control your life in the morning".

                              eduard

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: laneyluv18@...
                              [mailto:laneyluv18@...]
                              Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 2:42 PM
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                              Eduard,
                              Sex does seem rather beastly. It is an animal
                              urge. I cannot associate it
                              with "love" (although I am not sure "love" really
                              exists the way others
                              describe it, having never experienced it myself).
                              Having sex with someone
                              seems like something you would do with someone
                              that you hate. If I really
                              respected someone, I would never get intimate in a
                              sexual way with them. Sex
                              is a body thing, I want to focus more on the mind.
                              -Lena


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              removed]


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                            • res0nthw
                              I ve never used it... But if I was going to have sex, it would be with a close enough of a friend that I could just say lets do it and she d go, Ok .. ...
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                I've never used it... But if I was going to have sex, it would be with a
                                close enough of a friend that I could just say "lets do it" and she'd go,
                                "Ok"..

                                :-)

                                From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>


                                > That's much too crude, Nick. No wonder people
                                > get turned off ....
                                >
                                > eduard
                                >
                              • Eduard Alf
                                resOnthw, Sounds good to me. But I must admit that it usually does not turn out that way. Sex is very much an invasion of personal space, and it is hard to
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                  resOnthw,

                                  Sounds good to me. But I must admit that it
                                  usually does not turn out that way. Sex is very
                                  much an invasion of personal space, and it is hard
                                  to ignore the psychological result. Which is
                                  probably why sex is best within a marriage.

                                  I am not discounting that there can be a lot of
                                  good from sex ... only pointing out that for some,
                                  it is not something desirable. In our society, if
                                  someone says that they don't like sex, there is a
                                  reaction from listeners, in the same sense as when
                                  you might advocate taking the word "God" out of
                                  the pledge of allegiance. The tendency is to
                                  throw you into the same category as the godless
                                  commies ... :-))

                                  Everyone has a right to make their own rules in
                                  life ...

                                  eduard

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: res0nthw [mailto:res0nthw@...]
                                  Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:56 PM
                                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex

                                  I've never used it... But if I was going to have
                                  sex, it would be with a
                                  close enough of a friend that I could just say
                                  "lets do it" and she'd go,
                                  "Ok"..

                                  :-)
                                • nick a
                                  Indeed...By close friend, perhaps I am referring to within a marriage ... Considering how many marriages end in divorse these days, it kind of makes you
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Indeed...By close friend, perhaps I am referring to "within a marriage"...

                                    Considering how many marriages end in divorse these days, it kind of makes
                                    you wonder how many are just confused souls wanting to satisfy some "higher
                                    force"...




                                    > Nick,
                                    >
                                    > Sounds good to me. But I must admit that it
                                    > usually does not turn out that way. Sex is very
                                    > much an invasion of personal space, and it is hard
                                    > to ignore the psychological result. Which is
                                    > probably why sex is best within a marriage.
                                    >
                                    > I am not discounting that there can be a lot of
                                    > good from sex ... only pointing out that for some,
                                    > it is not something desirable. In our society, if
                                    > someone says that they don't like sex, there is a
                                    > reaction from listeners, in the same sense as when
                                    > you might advocate taking the word "God" out of
                                    > the pledge of allegiance. The tendency is to
                                    > throw you into the same category as the godless
                                    > commies ... :-))
                                    >
                                    > Everyone has a right to make their own rules in
                                    > life ...
                                    >
                                    > eduard
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: res0nthw [mailto:res0nthw@...]
                                    > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:56 PM
                                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                                    >
                                    > I've never used it... But if I was going to have
                                    > sex, it would be with a
                                    > close enough of a friend that I could just say
                                    > "lets do it" and she'd go,
                                    > "Ok"..
                                    >
                                    > :-)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
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                                    >
                                  • Exist List Moderator
                                    Eduard! ... Oh, how I disagree... Respect from my friends would mean something about freedom and emotional trust. Sexual contact is merely one part of who and
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                      Eduard!

                                      > ... which for some people, I suppose is Ok. The
                                      > old expression of, "will you respect me in the
                                      > morning" is really a code for, "will you allow me
                                      > to control your life in the morning".

                                      Oh, how I disagree...

                                      Respect from my friends would mean something about freedom and emotional
                                      trust. Sexual contact is merely one part of who and what we are. I have
                                      never felt controlled by a woman based only on sex. They usually control me
                                      long before that!

                                      - C. S. Wyatt
                                    • Eduard Alf
                                      Nick, I am divorced and it had nothing to do with a higher force .... eduard ... From: nick a [mailto:res0nthw@verizon.net] Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:05
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                        Nick,

                                        I am divorced and it had nothing to do with a
                                        "higher force" ....

                                        eduard

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: nick a [mailto:res0nthw@...]
                                        Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:05 PM
                                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                                        Indeed...By close friend, perhaps I am referring
                                        to "within a marriage"...

                                        Considering how many marriages end in divorse
                                        these days, it kind of makes
                                        you wonder how many are just confused souls
                                        wanting to satisfy some "higher
                                        force"...
                                      • Eduard Alf
                                        Chris, nice to hear from you ... I agree that there is more to it. But once we start thinking of someone else, and sex will do that for you, there is a loss
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                          Chris,

                                          nice to hear from you ...

                                          I agree that there is more to it. But once we
                                          start thinking of someone else, and sex will do
                                          that for you, there is a loss of freedom. That is
                                          not to say it is something to be avoided [control,
                                          that is], only that it is there and some would
                                          prefer to do without it. But then, whatever keeps
                                          your neurons happy .........

                                          eduard

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Exist List Moderator
                                          [mailto:existlist1@...]
                                          Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:21 PM
                                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex


                                          Eduard!

                                          > ... which for some people, I suppose is Ok. The
                                          > old expression of, "will you respect me in the
                                          > morning" is really a code for, "will you allow
                                          me
                                          > to control your life in the morning".

                                          Oh, how I disagree...

                                          Respect from my friends would mean something about
                                          freedom and emotional
                                          trust. Sexual contact is merely one part of who
                                          and what we are. I have
                                          never felt controlled by a woman based only on
                                          sex. They usually control me
                                          long before that!

                                          - C. S. Wyatt



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                                        • nick a
                                          Well, yeah... There must be a right way and a wrong way to go about getting married... Do you have an opinion on marriage counsellors? I want to be a marriage
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                            Well, yeah...

                                            There must be a right way and a wrong way to go about getting married...

                                            Do you have an opinion on marriage counsellors? I want to be a marriage
                                            counsellor on the side as I gain more life experience...

                                            The higher force is something like "religious" parents who are projecting
                                            their beliefs onto their kids - who then decide to get married (to indulge
                                            in sex) and satisfy their parents superficial wishes....


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 8:22 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex


                                            > Nick,
                                            >
                                            > I am divorced and it had nothing to do with a
                                            > "higher force" ....
                                            >
                                            > eduard
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: nick a [mailto:res0nthw@...]
                                            > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:05 PM
                                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Indeed...By close friend, perhaps I am referring
                                            > to "within a marriage"...
                                            >
                                            > Considering how many marriages end in divorse
                                            > these days, it kind of makes
                                            > you wonder how many are just confused souls
                                            > wanting to satisfy some "higher
                                            > force"...
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                            > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                            >
                                            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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                                            >
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                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Roggles457@aol.com
                                            Well, someone asked for an opinion on Marriage counselors. I personally think they are at least a good attempt to stabilize increasingly unstable marriages. I
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                              Well, someone asked for an opinion on Marriage counselors. I personally
                                              think they are at least a good attempt to stabilize increasingly unstable
                                              marriages.

                                              I also have my own two bits on the divorcing and marriage, although its
                                              all just conjecture. I'm at least a few years off from marriage (only
                                              recently turning 18), but I already see in my friends that most will end in
                                              divorce. The growing generations have this increasing individualism within
                                              themselves. That in and of itself is not bad. However, one side effect of
                                              this is this new generation recklessly follows blind emotion at times (And if
                                              individualism isn't enough to do this, modern young pop culture will more
                                              than happily help out). This can often result in two people getting married
                                              without honestly considering the consequences of what happens in a few years
                                              when the infatuation wears off, and you need more than that to stay together.
                                              (Willful?) ignorance towards the future, and a complete lack of rational
                                              perspective is what causes todays instable marriage.

                                              Ryan
                                            • Eduard Alf
                                              Nick, I don t have an opinion on marriage counselors ... I seriously doubt that many kids get married on the basis of wanting to satisfy their parents
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
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                                                Nick,

                                                I don't have an opinion on marriage counselors ...

                                                I seriously doubt that many "kids" get married on
                                                the basis of wanting to satisfy their parents
                                                wishes, superficial or otherwise. People just get
                                                married and perhaps that is the problem ... But
                                                then, the problem may also be the environment that
                                                we live in today.

                                                eduard

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: nick a [mailto:res0nthw@...]
                                                Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:31 AM
                                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                                                Well, yeah...

                                                There must be a right way and a wrong way to go
                                                about getting married...

                                                Do you have an opinion on marriage counsellors? I
                                                want to be a marriage
                                                counsellor on the side as I gain more life
                                                experience...

                                                The higher force is something like "religious"
                                                parents who are projecting
                                                their beliefs onto their kids - who then decide to
                                                get married (to indulge
                                                in sex) and satisfy their parents superficial
                                                wishes....
                                              • Eduard Alf
                                                Ryan, I was going to say that it is all too easy to get a divorce now-a-days, and that people used to get over their problems and found a way to stick
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 7, 2002
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Ryan,

                                                  I was going to say that it is all too easy to get
                                                  a divorce now-a-days, and that people used to get
                                                  over their problems and found a way to stick
                                                  together. But then I am also wondering if that
                                                  made them any happier. Perhaps it was more of
                                                  accepting their situation than finding any good
                                                  solutions.

                                                  eduard

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Roggles457@...
                                                  [mailto:Roggles457@...]
                                                  Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 1:22 AM
                                                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                                                  Well, someone asked for an opinion on Marriage
                                                  counselors. I personally
                                                  think they are at least a good attempt to
                                                  stabilize increasingly unstable
                                                  marriages.

                                                  I also have my own two bits on the divorcing
                                                  and marriage, although its
                                                  all just conjecture. I'm at least a few years off
                                                  from marriage (only
                                                  recently turning 18), but I already see in my
                                                  friends that most will end in
                                                  divorce. The growing generations have this
                                                  increasing individualism within
                                                  themselves. That in and of itself is not bad.
                                                  However, one side effect of
                                                  this is this new generation recklessly follows
                                                  blind emotion at times (And if
                                                  individualism isn't enough to do this, modern
                                                  young pop culture will more
                                                  than happily help out). This can often result in
                                                  two people getting married
                                                  without honestly considering the consequences of
                                                  what happens in a few years
                                                  when the infatuation wears off, and you need more
                                                  than that to stay together.
                                                  (Willful?) ignorance towards the future, and a
                                                  complete lack of rational
                                                  perspective is what causes todays instable
                                                  marriage.


                                                  Ryan

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                                                • Bill Harris
                                                  Lena, at the least you admit it. The stupid and backward, however seem positively entranced with the slimey business. If I was female I would not martyr my
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jul 8, 2002
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                                                    Lena, at the least you admit it. The stupid and backward, however seem positively entranced with the slimey business. If I was female I would not martyr my ass to the future either. Bill
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: laneyluv18@...
                                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 8:48 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                                                    Dear M.I. Clear,
                                                    In a recent post you said that you "doubt it would be possible to
                                                    dislike sex." I just thought that you might like to know that it is. I
                                                    dislike it strongly. I find it disgusting and degrading (be it with parter/s
                                                    male or female). I know this is a very warped perspective, but it is possible
                                                    to dislike sex.
                                                    -Lena



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Bill Harris
                                                    Nick, With lines like that you must be a real hit at the local NOW meeting. Bill ... From: nick a To:
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jul 8, 2002
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                                                      Nick, With lines like that you must be a real hit at the local NOW meeting.
                                                      Bill
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: "nick a" <res0nthw@...>
                                                      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 12:28 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex


                                                      > Sex tactic: "Hey baby, wanna do it?"
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                                      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 8:01 AM
                                                      > Subject: RE: [existlist] dislike sex
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > > Lena,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > That is your choice .. you should not think of it
                                                      > > as being "messed up". There is more to life than
                                                      > > just sex. Many people in history chose not to
                                                      > > indulge in sex; probably for the same reasons as
                                                      > > you have given. I am seriously thinking of giving
                                                      > > it up myself. I had a female friend over to the
                                                      > > house yesterday, and it was refreshing to just
                                                      > > talk about things rather than to think of some
                                                      > > tactic to have sex.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > eduard
                                                      > >
                                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > > From: laneyluv18@...
                                                      > > [mailto:laneyluv18@...]
                                                      > > Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:22 AM
                                                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > Subject: Re: [existlist] dislike sex
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Adam,
                                                      > > Psychologically I am sure it all makes sense. I
                                                      > > feel about intimacy the way a
                                                      > > little kid does, it's "gross." I guess I just
                                                      > > reverted back to this state
                                                      > > (although I am not really sure if I ever grew out
                                                      > > of it) after some
                                                      > > incredibly bad experiences. It has all left me
                                                      > > numb. I really don't feel. Sex
                                                      > > seems dirty, shameful and disgusting to me, and no
                                                      > > pleasure can ever be
                                                      > > gained from it. I know that is really messed up.
                                                      > > -Lena
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                      > > removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
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