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Re: [existlist] cat and ball experiment

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  • Bill Harris
    Charles, I do not think emotional states of mind emerge from empiricism. Emotion is an older, less precise mental activity. The neuronal component is
    Message 1 of 42 , Jun 3, 2002
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      Charles, I do not think emotional states of mind emerge from empiricism. Emotion is an older, less precise mental activity. The neuronal component is accompanied by hormonal supercharging. I think it is of less use in the modern world. I understand many think of emotions as coloring life, a life that would be flat and monochromatic without emotion. I simply differ. I do not read poetry, I would rather study an exploded view of a rifle.
      I want to know how things work, not how I feel about their workings. I use my feelings much like early warning radar. We greatly ignore our sense of smell. Especially in primal settings it is smell that gives one that eerie fear of the unknown. If you dissect what is being presented olfactorally, you might find the musk of a predator or the rot of a hidden bog. The old mid brained response is to run away, but by analyzing emotion I can approach with caution. I can learn with less danger to my life. As to reveling in the fear, I just do not do that. Just as I refuse to roll in remorse when I smell a dead animal and yet I will be more on the watch for scavengers and predators. I see emotion as a blunted tool, not as a plaything I go to for titillation.
      For the past few decades we as males have been told to enroll ourselves in emotion. Women want us to do that because then we can relate to them more easily. I don't want the kind of woman who demands that emotionality of me. She weakens me and endangers me, so I will walk away from her.
      Science has nothing to do with emotion except to study it as a part of our behavior. The literary existentialist may also look at the emotional life of man but I think he enters a labyrinth of self gratification. Emotion is not rational, it is reactive. it is general in it`s responses, not specific. Most of all, it is not a toy to be played with.
      Science is a method of arriving at the reality of the physical world. Emotion is part of that physical world and an apt target of scientific scrutiny.
      Emotion is a part of our mental armamentarium, it is what the midbrain substitutes for science. It is a clumsy, inaccurate way of dealing with complex stimuli and should be applied only after higher brained scrutiny.
      I see little cohabitation of science and emotion. Science will continue to explain emotion. I think emotion will continue to regress as a useful tool . The world may go back in time to where a quick fanged beast may be the best survivor. I cannot think either of us want that.
      Eduard`s NOOism , in it`s search for the happy neuron, gives me pause to think about a wallowing in emotional bliss. Certainly the pleasure mediators of the mind are affected by emotion. Could NOOism be like drug use-- searching for that last part of dopamine in an over used system?
      I fear emotion like you fear science. As I said, science is just a method. Anyone can understand it. Emotion, however, is a ancient and possibly violent part of our psyche. I find no quarter with emotion, until I understand it fully. Bill
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Neoex
      Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 5:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] cat and ball experiment


      Bill,

      It's interesting to know how you subdivide the group into literary and
      scientific existentialists.
      However, a radical empiricism based on instrumentation is far too
      pragmatical to account
      for the existence of intelllectual faculties that serve as tools for the
      emegergence of emotional
      states of mind. Besides, stressing instruments and means over ends, and
      viewing ideas as
      intruments of actions, is in my opinion downright unethical. I believe that
      an appropiate
      combination of these two trends of thought will be more adequate and
      acceptable.

      "bewere of science"!!!!

      Like you said, "Strange notions like the divine right of kings and religious
      idolatry still
      plague us". Personally, I got rid of those long time ago, and what is really
      plaguing us
      right now is "the divine right of science and the idolatry of military might
      and money".
      Do you really believe that we are better than any other form of life in this
      planet? Or
      that the Big Bang theory or quantum physics have any merit in themselves? It
      is not
      my intention to go back into the middle ages, but on the individual level, a
      certain
      emotional and animal instinct, tells me, that this wrong-headed competition
      may be
      the source of our own destruction. I think that this little human ape is too
      smart for
      his own good, regardless of all his scientific achievements.

      Charles

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Bill Harris" <valleywestdental@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 8:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] cat and ball experiment


      > Charles, Interesting ideas about the acquisition of knowledge. I think
      this group falls into two distinct sub groups;1. The literary
      existentialists, 2. the scientific exits. I would purport to belong to the
      latter while your post gives me notion you may belong to the former. Eduard,
      in the days of the Bookdoc wars was a staunch scientist but he turned to
      Epicureanism and now to NOOism. I would equate a scientific exit with an
      extrapolated empiricism that allows for the acceptance of knowledge gained
      from instrumentation
      > Emotional reactions , stemming from older, midbrain functions, are always
      suspect to me. If there is time to think in a situation ignoring emotion
      seems the best course.
      > Strange notions like the divine right of kings and religious idolatry
      still plague us. I think we restore such anomalies with the bourgeois
      social customs of the neuvo-riche in the modern world. I see much of todays
      literature reinforcing these nonrational trends.
      > So I am left with science as the tool to define the world about me.
      Bookdoc was right when he said human interaction has too many variables to
      be subject to science. With that I am forced to see other people as the hell
      of existence. Bill
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Charles
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: Neoex
      > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 2:10 PM
      > Subject: Re: [existlist] cat and ball experiment
      >
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > So, there you go again! I mean, Eduard's problem was not about cats but
      > 'happy neurons'?
      > Thanyou for your accepting me in the Neoex group.
      >
      > By the way Eduard, how are your neurons doing today? I have too many
      > messages to read
      > and yet, little time for it. However, being "thown" in the midts of so
      much
      > "depression", I could not
      > help to notice the phenomenological and epistemological dicussion going
      on
      > between you
      > and Daniel: perspective of the objects into one, two , three or perhaps
      four
      > dimensions with the
      > help of a sixth sense? Are we really able to know reality with the help
      of
      > the happy neurons?
      >
      > As far as I am concerned, the only sources of knowledge are: Authorithy
      > (legacy of knowledge),
      > Intuition (maybe Kant's space and time), Reason or Undestanding
      > (intellectual faculties considered
      > simple and clear before any a priori nonsense), and Experience (five
      senses
      > only, not six); The
      > only sixth sense I have notice has been what Bill refers to as "pussey".
      So,
      > Daniel, if we
      > have more senses like you said: "sense of hunger, thirst,or something
      else",
      > I can certainly
      > refer these feelings to the sense of "touch", as the feeling of hot or
      cold
      > for instance. Not only that,
      > but even the modern elements of chemistry (Lavoisier) are nothing but
      the
      > old and simple(Eduard)
      > elements of Air, Fire, Earth and Water. That's what you want Eduar,
      right?
      > Simplicity?. Perhaps
      > I am being too general and it may be due to either my happy neurons or
      my
      > sixth sense!!!!!
      >
      > Ptolemy, Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Eistein, Heisenberg...
      were
      > they right or wrong?
      > Maybe the earth is flat and we don't know it. Maybe the sun and the
      planets
      > still orbit around
      > the earth and we don't know it. (our senses are so deceptive). Maybe the
      > universe is contracting
      > instead of expanding, and we don't know it. Maybe light is as wave or a
      > particle and we don't
      > know it. "there are not facts only interpretations". Believe me guys, it
      is
      > not my intention to make
      > a mockery of the seriousness of the subject matter. I am just an
      > Existentialist who happens to
      > agree with Schelling right now:
      >
      > "Live is a veil of melancholy which is spread over the whole
      of
      > nature,
      > the deep indestructible melancholy of all life."
      >
      > Hippocrates and Galen could not have found the right medicine for
      > "Depression". Maybe Voltaire
      > was right when he said that if it wasn't for philosophy or for something
      to
      > do he would have killed
      > himself. Boredom is the greates of evils!!!. The modern doctor speaks of
      > certain chemical
      > imbalance, and Freud and Sartre brought out to light their own
      respective
      > psychoanalisis. You
      > can have a choice, really? Can we really make choices in a world driven
      by a
      > blind necessity?
      > Is there a purpose, aim or goal? we would be there already according to
      > Nietzsche. So, what's
      > all the fuss about depression? Just take a tranquillizer and endure the
      > pleasures and pains
      > of existence. Contradiction: "we are condemn to be free".
      >
      > Charles
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Bill Harris" <valleywestdental@...>
      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 8:47 AM
      > Subject: Re: [existlist] cat and ball experiment
      >
      >
      > > Eduard, Fine study. I think you should apply for a grant. Yet the real
      > problem involved pussey not cats. Bill
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Eduard Alf
      > > To: Existlist
      > > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:14 PM
      > > Subject: [existlist] cat and ball experiment
      > >
      > >
      > > Bill,
      > >
      > > Well, I went over to the girlfriends place ... she
      > > has a black and white cat.
      > >
      > > I got on the floor and took the ball ... it is one
      > > of those plastic things with a bell inside ...
      > >
      > > First I had to scratch the cat's stomach ... he
      > > likes that ...
      > >
      > > I got the cat's attention and then rolled the ball
      > > in front of it ... the cat turned over for a
      > > scratch ...
      > >
      > > I then rolled the ball and waited till it stopped
      > > and then instructed ... "go fetch" ... the cat
      > > turned over for a scratch ..
      > >
      > > My conclusion: The cat is *blind*
      > >
      > > captain jack
      > >
      > >
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    • Bill Harris
      Eduard, Kill, kill, kill, unsubscription seems one of the few things that really light your powder. Bill ... From: Eduard Alf To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Message 42 of 42 , Jun 10, 2002
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        Eduard, Kill, kill, kill, unsubscription seems one of the few things that really light your powder. Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Eduard Alf
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:00 AM
        Subject: Re: [existlist] lets have a happy war


        uncordially yours,

        If you would take the time to scroll down, you will see how
        to unsubscribe. Quite frankly, I am tired of people who get
        onto this list and then don't inform themselves of how to
        get off.

        eduard

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "jeremy mcleod" <yu238246@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:54 PM
        Subject: Re: [existlist] lets have a happy war


        > Whoever the moderator is could you take me off this
        listserv. I've requested this before but no response,
        please do this now.
        >
        > uncordially yours
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
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        >


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