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RE: [existlist] Re: Religion

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  • kadri
    Dear Alf, I do not intend to war against religions. Likewise, I do nont intend to denouce the belief of others. What simply I want to extend is that our that
    Message 1 of 31 , Jun 3 6:06 AM
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      Dear Alf,
      I do not intend to war against religions. Likewise, I
      do nont intend to denouce the belief of others. What
      simply I want to extend is that our that poor friend
      who invented the tiny office pin has rendered more
      service to mankind that priests that invented nothing
      but ghosts, witchcrafts, wizards and fears while
      dragging people to the dungeons of superstition, and
      it was done with all malafide motive i.e. to maintain
      their rule. And, while doing so if they were to wage
      war against each other, they were ready to do so. The
      pages of history are full of such wars of different
      sects of one and the same religion against each other.
      Otherwise, we find a marvellous union amongst them
      aingst innocent people. I may give an xample: John
      Calvin was powerful in Geneva, and he carried out
      torture against people. Jhon Knox started preaching
      his doctrine in Scotland, peculiarity about
      Presbyterianism.It was a riegn of terror that
      continued untill the discovery of America -- the Great
      Republic. It was because of the strange mingling of
      different creeds and their superstitions, faiths,
      theories, facts and opinions that they first time, out
      of sicerity, laughed at their follies. The poets,
      artists, philosophers and scientists diverted the
      attention of people from metaphysics to physics, from
      superstition to the laws of nature.

      Lets look to Art and Literature for direction.What
      they produce is a melody of colors, proportion, form,
      cheerfulness, thought and act. Here the freedom of
      genius is lost, and the artists, poets, writers and
      scientists absorb as equally honorable citizents
      enjoying same rights whether they believe in
      metaphysics or not.

      If someones feelings are hurt, I really feel sorry as
      I didn't intend to do that.
      --- Eduard Alf <yeoman@...> wrote:
      > Daniel,
      >
      > sorry. I have been having problems with Yahoo. My
      > emails bounce. Will see if this one works.
      >
      > I just finished mowing the rest of the lawn. Now
      > for some rest. Good movie on Space channel. "It
      > Came from Beneath the Sea".
      >
      > As to your email, I would tend to agree with the
      > "messages", although I would put it more in the
      > way of societies for which religion is just a
      > trigger. From a social point of view, the threat
      > of "others" has always had the affect of "us or
      > them". But the advent of the global community may
      > overcome this. What I am speaking about is the
      > elimination of societies as we know them today.
      >
      > "Messiah" is an answer that neurons produce as a
      > result of their creation of god. "Gods" as such
      > are "over there", or perhaps "up there". The
      > neurons, therefore, dream up an avatar who can
      > come down to earth to save mankind from there
      > troubles. Like Alan Ladd in "Shane" rescuing the
      > settlers.
      >
      > eduard
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: daniel_needles
      > [mailto:Daniel.Needles@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:23 PM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [existlist] Re: Religion
      >
      >
      > Hello,
      > My last comment on this thread got no reponse. I
      > culture does have
      > a tendency to go to an all or nothing approach.
      >
      > Again, I think the trick is where the focus lays.
      > Relgion
      > usually has two conflicting messages:
      >
      > 1. Us or them; join us or die.
      > 2. Why can't we all be nice to one another and
      > love "God."
      >
      > One focuses on "good" to others and to the whole
      > they are part of,
      > the other is for preservation and propogation of
      > the belief
      > construct.
      >
      > Most "Messiac" figures when they emerge focus on
      > (2). As the religion
      > has difficulties "serving" the members, it must
      > focus on (1) or die.
      > The message becomes believe and live (implying
      > otherwise you'll die.)
      > Less and less will (2) be preached.
      >
      > At least for the religons that I've looked at they
      > all seem to follow
      > this model.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Daniel
      >
      >
      > --- In existlist@y..., kadri amir ali
      > <sunflower50pk@y...> wrote:
      > > Hundreds of such examples could be cited where
      > the
      > > wars were waged by the priests that were long,
      > bitter
      > > and cruel.
      > > What priests done?
      > > They made woman a slave. They taught that a nun
      > was
      > > purer, nobler, holier than a mother--inducing
      > young
      > > girls to renounce the blessings of a family
      > life.
      > > They were the enemies of art, literature,
      > philosophy
      > > and science.
      > > They established asylums for the insame, as they
      > > claimed. But, the record tells us that the
      > insane were
      > > treated as criminals--chained, flogged, starved
      > and
      > > killed.
      > > It is just a panaromic view, and they did it
      > because
      > > they were either ill-educated or ignorant of the
      > facts
      > > or both.
      > > It is equally true for the priests of all
      > religions.
      > > It is the science, art, literature and
      > philosophy
      > > where one finds direction as well as salvation.
      > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@q...> wrote:
      > > > Eduard, As I was saying, A god out of man.
      > Bill
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@v...>
      > > > To: <existlist@y...>
      > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:18 AM
      > > > Subject: RE: [existlist] Religion
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > kadri,
      > > > >
      > > > > There will always be a need of religion. I
      > would
      > > > > grant that religion has lead to a lot of bad
      > > > > things. But it isn't all bad. People get
      > flayed
      > > > > and their tongues cut out, only when the
      > religion
      > > > > is under stress due to a number of factors,
      > such
      > > > > as the threat of some competing religion.
      > In
      > > > > general, religion has provided a positive
      > > > > influence upon society.
      > > > >
      > > > > It is a great idea to look to the welfare of
      > the
      > > > > poor and to foster education, but this does
      > not
      > > > > happen of itself. It comes of some
      > direction and
      > > > > this is of religion. One of the reasons why
      > > > > Christianity won out in the Roman era was
      > because
      > > > > it emulated the sort of social welfare
      > program
      > > > > that was already in place by the Jews. The
      > > > > completing religion of Mithraism was more
      > > > > interested in the esoteric aspects of
      > religious
      > > > > outlook and most importantly, it did not
      > accept
      > > > > women members.
      > > > >
      > > > > I grant that in one sense, "religion" is
      > defined
      > > > > as a devotion to a supernatural power. And
      > this
      > > > > sort of fantasy can lead to problems. But
      > it does
      > > > > not have to be so, if we are aware that it
      > is a
      > > > > fantasy ... which is the reason why I feel
      > that
      > > > > NOOism as the philosophy of the 21st century
      > can
      > > > > provide a solution. We believe in God
      > because our
      > > > > brains have been evolved in a manner to
      > enable
      > > > > this. It is time that came to realise that
      > it is
      > > > > the brain which is the truer reality rather
      > than
      > > > > the God that it creates.
      > > > >
      > > > > eduard
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: kadri amir ali
      > > > > [mailto:sunflower50pk@y...]
      > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:50 AM
      > > > > To: existlist@y...
      > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Religion
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Jim,
      > > > >
      > > > > History tells us that there has always been
      > a war
      > > > > between ideologies, and religion has its
      > role
      > > > > rather a
      > > > > very major and crude role. In past the
      > followers
      > > > > of
      > > > > one religion, as a matter of record, would
      > > > > extinguished the eyes of the followers of
      > other
      > > > > religions, flaying them alive and cutting
      > out
      > > > > their
      > > > > toungues even. It has remained a trade in
      > human
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • Trinidad Cruz
      As existentialists which faith may we argue is the more valid? Can any proposed God be an existentialist concern? The existentialist s area of concern
      Message 31 of 31 , Feb 15, 2005
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        As existentialists which faith may we argue is the more valid? Can any
        proposed God be an existentialist concern? The existentialist's area
        of concern regarding God can only be the effect of the God-idea on the
        individual existentialist and on other human beings, not the
        validation or invalidation of the God-idea. We may only comment on the
        produced historical effect. The gulf of time between Pythagoreus and
        Einstein exceeds any logical probability construct. The gulf of time
        between Babylonian astronomy and Gallileo is even greater. This cycle
        of dormancy in the human development of a cosmological view must have
        a cause.There is only one arguable cause: murderous and mind-numbing
        religion collectively enforced.In some ways this is a good historical
        argument for the need of an active God: in that left to our own
        devices we invent authority over the unknown and enforce it upon
        ourselves to our detriment.Throughout human history God-ideas have
        dragged against any change in human cosmological view. How big will
        the next gulf be? We have the capacity to make ourselves wait long
        enough to forget what we were afraid of.

        tc

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@t...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, HANAN COHEN <vanez91335@y...> wrote:
        > > Dear-
        > > Whoever thou art, whatever in other respects thy life
        > > may be, my friend, by ceasing to take part (if
        > > ordinarily thou doest) in the public worship of God,
        > > as it now is (with the claim that it is the
        > > Christianity of the New Testament), thou hast
        > > constantly one guilt the less, and that a great one:
        > > thou dost not take part in treating God as a fool by
        > > calling that the Christianity of the New Testament
        > > which is not the Christianity of the New Testament."
        > > S. Kierkegaard, 1854
        >
        >
        > I am glad to see another post on Kierkegaard. I think his call for
        > personal authentic faith is far superior to the public version of
        > faith we often see online and in the media.
        >
        > I realize some faiths call for an "authentic" preaching and
        > conversion. Some Christians view their duty to reach out and "save"
        > others as more important than the "rights" I assert to be left alone.
        >
        > Kierkegaard should be read again and again, especially in the current
        > environment.
        >
        > - CSW
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