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RE: [existlist] Re: Religion

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  • Eduard Alf
    Daniel, sorry. I have been having problems with Yahoo. My emails bounce. Will see if this one works. I just finished mowing the rest of the lawn. Now for
    Message 1 of 31 , Jun 2, 2002
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      Daniel,

      sorry. I have been having problems with Yahoo. My
      emails bounce. Will see if this one works.

      I just finished mowing the rest of the lawn. Now
      for some rest. Good movie on Space channel. "It
      Came from Beneath the Sea".

      As to your email, I would tend to agree with the
      "messages", although I would put it more in the
      way of societies for which religion is just a
      trigger. From a social point of view, the threat
      of "others" has always had the affect of "us or
      them". But the advent of the global community may
      overcome this. What I am speaking about is the
      elimination of societies as we know them today.

      "Messiah" is an answer that neurons produce as a
      result of their creation of god. "Gods" as such
      are "over there", or perhaps "up there". The
      neurons, therefore, dream up an avatar who can
      come down to earth to save mankind from there
      troubles. Like Alan Ladd in "Shane" rescuing the
      settlers.

      eduard

      -----Original Message-----
      From: daniel_needles
      [mailto:Daniel.Needles@...]
      Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:23 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Religion


      Hello,
      My last comment on this thread got no reponse. I
      culture does have
      a tendency to go to an all or nothing approach.

      Again, I think the trick is where the focus lays.
      Relgion
      usually has two conflicting messages:

      1. Us or them; join us or die.
      2. Why can't we all be nice to one another and
      love "God."

      One focuses on "good" to others and to the whole
      they are part of,
      the other is for preservation and propogation of
      the belief
      construct.

      Most "Messiac" figures when they emerge focus on
      (2). As the religion
      has difficulties "serving" the members, it must
      focus on (1) or die.
      The message becomes believe and live (implying
      otherwise you'll die.)
      Less and less will (2) be preached.

      At least for the religons that I've looked at they
      all seem to follow
      this model.

      Thanks,
      Daniel


      --- In existlist@y..., kadri amir ali
      <sunflower50pk@y...> wrote:
      > Hundreds of such examples could be cited where
      the
      > wars were waged by the priests that were long,
      bitter
      > and cruel.
      > What priests done?
      > They made woman a slave. They taught that a nun
      was
      > purer, nobler, holier than a mother--inducing
      young
      > girls to renounce the blessings of a family
      life.
      > They were the enemies of art, literature,
      philosophy
      > and science.
      > They established asylums for the insame, as they
      > claimed. But, the record tells us that the
      insane were
      > treated as criminals--chained, flogged, starved
      and
      > killed.
      > It is just a panaromic view, and they did it
      because
      > they were either ill-educated or ignorant of the
      facts
      > or both.
      > It is equally true for the priests of all
      religions.
      > It is the science, art, literature and
      philosophy
      > where one finds direction as well as salvation.
      > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@q...> wrote:
      > > Eduard, As I was saying, A god out of man.
      Bill
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@v...>
      > > To: <existlist@y...>
      > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:18 AM
      > > Subject: RE: [existlist] Religion
      > >
      > >
      > > > kadri,
      > > >
      > > > There will always be a need of religion. I
      would
      > > > grant that religion has lead to a lot of bad
      > > > things. But it isn't all bad. People get
      flayed
      > > > and their tongues cut out, only when the
      religion
      > > > is under stress due to a number of factors,
      such
      > > > as the threat of some competing religion.
      In
      > > > general, religion has provided a positive
      > > > influence upon society.
      > > >
      > > > It is a great idea to look to the welfare of
      the
      > > > poor and to foster education, but this does
      not
      > > > happen of itself. It comes of some
      direction and
      > > > this is of religion. One of the reasons why
      > > > Christianity won out in the Roman era was
      because
      > > > it emulated the sort of social welfare
      program
      > > > that was already in place by the Jews. The
      > > > completing religion of Mithraism was more
      > > > interested in the esoteric aspects of
      religious
      > > > outlook and most importantly, it did not
      accept
      > > > women members.
      > > >
      > > > I grant that in one sense, "religion" is
      defined
      > > > as a devotion to a supernatural power. And
      this
      > > > sort of fantasy can lead to problems. But
      it does
      > > > not have to be so, if we are aware that it
      is a
      > > > fantasy ... which is the reason why I feel
      that
      > > > NOOism as the philosophy of the 21st century
      can
      > > > provide a solution. We believe in God
      because our
      > > > brains have been evolved in a manner to
      enable
      > > > this. It is time that came to realise that
      it is
      > > > the brain which is the truer reality rather
      than
      > > > the God that it creates.
      > > >
      > > > eduard
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: kadri amir ali
      > > > [mailto:sunflower50pk@y...]
      > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:50 AM
      > > > To: existlist@y...
      > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Religion
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Jim,
      > > >
      > > > History tells us that there has always been
      a war
      > > > between ideologies, and religion has its
      role
      > > > rather a
      > > > very major and crude role. In past the
      followers
      > > > of
      > > > one religion, as a matter of record, would
      > > > extinguished the eyes of the followers of
      other
      > > > religions, flaying them alive and cutting
      out
      > > > their
      > > > toungues even. It has remained a trade in
      human
      > > > flesh
      > > > in the name of this or that belief/this or
      that
      > > > diety.
      > > > To me the noblest and grandest ambition that
      can
      > > > enter
      > > > the mind of any man is to love MAN as MAN,
      and not
      > > > because of his/her essence.There is no real
      > > > religion
      > > > than doing something practical for the
      welfare of
      > > > mankind particularly helping the poor to get
      rid
      > > > of
      > > > their privations and miseries; to ensure
      education
      > > > for
      > > > their children.
      > > >
      > > > sunflower50pk
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
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    • Trinidad Cruz
      As existentialists which faith may we argue is the more valid? Can any proposed God be an existentialist concern? The existentialist s area of concern
      Message 31 of 31 , Feb 15, 2005
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        As existentialists which faith may we argue is the more valid? Can any
        proposed God be an existentialist concern? The existentialist's area
        of concern regarding God can only be the effect of the God-idea on the
        individual existentialist and on other human beings, not the
        validation or invalidation of the God-idea. We may only comment on the
        produced historical effect. The gulf of time between Pythagoreus and
        Einstein exceeds any logical probability construct. The gulf of time
        between Babylonian astronomy and Gallileo is even greater. This cycle
        of dormancy in the human development of a cosmological view must have
        a cause.There is only one arguable cause: murderous and mind-numbing
        religion collectively enforced.In some ways this is a good historical
        argument for the need of an active God: in that left to our own
        devices we invent authority over the unknown and enforce it upon
        ourselves to our detriment.Throughout human history God-ideas have
        dragged against any change in human cosmological view. How big will
        the next gulf be? We have the capacity to make ourselves wait long
        enough to forget what we were afraid of.

        tc

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@t...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, HANAN COHEN <vanez91335@y...> wrote:
        > > Dear-
        > > Whoever thou art, whatever in other respects thy life
        > > may be, my friend, by ceasing to take part (if
        > > ordinarily thou doest) in the public worship of God,
        > > as it now is (with the claim that it is the
        > > Christianity of the New Testament), thou hast
        > > constantly one guilt the less, and that a great one:
        > > thou dost not take part in treating God as a fool by
        > > calling that the Christianity of the New Testament
        > > which is not the Christianity of the New Testament."
        > > S. Kierkegaard, 1854
        >
        >
        > I am glad to see another post on Kierkegaard. I think his call for
        > personal authentic faith is far superior to the public version of
        > faith we often see online and in the media.
        >
        > I realize some faiths call for an "authentic" preaching and
        > conversion. Some Christians view their duty to reach out and "save"
        > others as more important than the "rights" I assert to be left alone.
        >
        > Kierkegaard should be read again and again, especially in the current
        > environment.
        >
        > - CSW
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