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Re: [existlist] Non-sense

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  • Stephanie
    ... need ... perceive. A metaphysical entity, with the power to enter peoples minds without them perceiving it. hmm.. i didn t mean that the truth doesn t have
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 17, 2000
      --- Jack Darach <jack.darach@...> wrote:
      > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > Hello there Stephanie:
      > well, "truth is that which is regardless of perception" implies
      > the existence of an objective truth that need not be perceived and,
      > thus, is insusceptible to perspective. while there may or may not be
      > many things that are "true", i do think that if a truth exists, there
      > is one and only one of that particular truth. am i misunderstanding
      > what you mean by truth(s)?
      > Don't know if you misunderstood, first I'll respond to truths that
      > need not be perceived I have a problem with truths that can't, or
      > not, be perceived. What kind of thing is this truth that need not be
      > seen? It must be a very strange thing, unlike anything we can
      perceive. A metaphysical entity, with the power to enter peoples minds
      without them perceiving it.

      hmm.. i didn't mean that the truth doesn't have to be perceived at all,
      i meant that it's the same truth no matter whether it is perceived by
      anyone or not, and regardless of who is doing the perceiving. like,
      the tree falling in the forest with no-one around to witness it.

      > Truths: I'd say that a truth is susceptible to perception, that
      > different people in their different interactions with the world are
      > able to perceive different truths about a situation.
      > (And the introduction of evidence won't help, I don't think we have
      > to
      > accept evidence no-matter how convincing, although this will
      > certainly
      > put our beliefs under more pressure)
      > Heres an example, not very good but should provide a point.
      > McDuff: I think Capitlism is a evil that has ravaged the world.
      > McDougle:Capitlism is good and has benefited the world.
      > If I'm understanding you correctly Stephanie, only one of these
      > statements is actually true, that so?
      > I would say each statement is true to the particular individual who
      > made that statement. We could only dismiss one if there was something
      > we could compare them to. (And evidence is not so helpful here, good
      > evidence can be produced by both sides, unfortunately)
      > But I don't think there is 'a' truth which we can compare our beliefs
      > to.

      i'd say that neither of the statements is true, in the sense of the
      truth that we're talking about. while both parties may believe in
      their respective statements, neither one holds true for anybody and
      > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > Hey Patty, thanks for the reply
      > What you say CAN be true, about having all our truths
      > interrelated..., but sometimes they just don't fit in.
      > I know what you mean, and it makes sense, 'cause it's
      > IN the world of 'sense'; but I still think all the
      > twists and turns we make in the way we feel and in the
      > way we do things, just to make them fit in with
      > everything, without brushing up too much, they're just
      > in response to our own paradoxes and contradictions.
      > Sounds good to me. Life without paradox and contradiction
      > is just plain dull!
      > <snip>
      > Either way, I believe we should all try to move
      > towards making our own lives and selves in accord with
      > what we know to be our most pure truths, especially in
      > the moral sense, although it can get rather sticky
      > there.
      > _'pure' truths, or perhaps, 'higher' truths don't , for me
      > exist. One day I take this truth, the next day I take that truth.
      > This is because I don't feel that 'pure' truth that you feel.
      > If you feel it, then its there for you, and I think living by
      > what we feel and acting on what we feel is important.
      > I do the same, I do what I want to do, but for me, those
      > actions aren't based on something unchanging, immutable, which
      > is how I see the concept of a 'pure' truth.
      > Truth should not depend on perception--it should be
      > THAT which is, regardless of perception. Perception
      > can sometimes be guided by things like our wants and
      > needs, fears and defenses...
      > Why do we all have so many disagreements with people,
      > all of the time!?
      > Because or perceptions dont just influence our beliefs, and
      > truths, they create them!
      > And i'll leave that, like so much else, unargued.
      > :-)
      > Yours sincerly
      > Jack

      I'm not sure that I'm comfortable calling personal beliefs "truths".
      To use a really embarrassing example, ever since I was a little kid
      I've believed that my stuffed animals come alive after midnight. (I
      got this idea from a cartoon movie that I saw as a child and I would
      LOVE to see that movie again but I can't remember the title and only
      remember a few isolated details from it.) Now, I've certainly stayed up
      past midnight and have even stayed up til dawn a few times but I have
      never once seen my stuffed animals come alive and party together. So
      I'm certainly not justified in saying that my belief is true but I
      always make sure that my stuffed animals are arranged in such a way
      that they are comfortable (faces not smooshed, bodies not contorted and
      slumped over) so, obviously, I still believe that they are sentient in
      some way. I would never argue that this personal belief is true, no
      matter how much I believe it and act in accordance with it.


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    • Monica Farcut
      Subject: Chinese Game ... order ... down ... taken ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 19, 2000
        Subject: Chinese Game

        >Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 1:04 AM
        >Subject: Fwd: Chinese New Year game
        >The Chinese New Year Game
        >This is quite weird and worth trying if you have about three minutes:
        >The Year of the Iron Dragon, wishing you Prosperity and Good Fortune!
        >Subject: The Chinese New Year
        >WISH YOU HADN'T!!
        >Take just three minutes and it will freak you out! The person who sent this
        >said her wish came true ten minutes after they read the mail. BUT NO
        >This game has a funny/creepy outcome - don't read ahead -just do it in
        >- it takes just three minutes and it is worth a try.
        >First get a pen and paper: When you actually choose names, make sure they
        >are people you actually know and go with your first instincts! Scroll
        >- one line at a time - don't read ahead or you will ruin the fun!!
        >1. First write down the numbers 1 through to 11 in a column
        >2. Then beside numbers 1 and 2, write down any two numbers you want.
        >3. Beside the 3 and 7, write down the names of members of the opposite
        >sex. Don't look ahead or it won't turn out right!!
        >4. Write anyone's name (like friends or family ??) in the 4th, 5th and
        > 6th spots. Don't cheat or you'll be upset that you did!!
        >5. Write down four song titles in 8, 9, 10 and 11.
        >6. Finally, make a wish. And here is the key of the game:
        >1. You must tell (the number in space 2) people about this game
        >2. The person in space 3 is the one that you love
        >3. The person in 7 is one that you like but can't work out
        >4. You care most about the person you put in 4
        >5. The person in number 5 is the one who knows you very well
        >6. The person in 6 is your lucky star
        >7. The Song in 8 is the song that matches with the person in number 3
        >8. The title in 9 is the song for the person in 7
        >9. The tenth space is the song that tells you most about your mind
        >10. And 11 is the song telling how you feel about life
        >Send this to 10 people within the hour you read this.If you do your wish
        >will come true. If you don't it will become the opposite. Very strange
        >but it seems to work!! 7 Pilgrim Street London EC4V 6LB Tel +44 20 7450
        >4500 Fax +44 20 7450 4545
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