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Re: [existlist] Digest Number 170

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  • Randy Zeitman
    ... Sure, tell me something you know that isn t a fact. If you say I know there s a god , I ll simply say prove it. And then you might say well obviously
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 12 6:28 AM
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      >Zeitman: Can you explain more what you mean by
      >"Knowledge is that we deem a fact. Truth is that which
      >is regarldless of perception".

      Sure, tell me something you know that isn't a fact.

      If you say "I know there's a god", I'll simply say prove it. And then
      you might say "well obviously something created us" and I'll say
      "that's silly, you presume we had to be created, but what created
      reality?" And you might say "well I believe it, I'm sure of it" and
      I say "well it certainly has to be a belief cause it sure ain't a
      fact! If it were a fact you could offer evidence for it instead of
      conjecture".

      When there's agreement, it's a fact. A fact is something we agree to
      be so. (and those that don't we either assess as stupid, on drugs,
      mentally ill...'there's a rhino in my closet and he wants to make me
      coffee!')

      >
      >Do you mean that knowledge is what we can empirically
      >prove and that Truth is what we can't deny, regardless
      >of the empirical evidence it may apport?

      No.

      When I say truth I means existential truth, not conventional truth.

      Conventionally a fact is a truth. It's true I woke up this morning. Fact.

      Existentially, a fact is not a truth. I can't say my waking up this
      morning isn't a dream. I can't disprove it. I can say it's not
      likely, but that's not *T R U T H*. That is, there's no way to know
      humans can know any truths, and until I see evidence (cause that's
      what humans do. Otherwise, any claim you make is true unless proven
      false and there's where new age and metaphysics come in...which I
      don't at all buy....if you say a crystal has power that humans can't
      perceive than I say Santa Claus is real and you better believe it....)

      Existentially, nothing is real, things we call real are only
      perceived. Even the claim "things are real regardless of human
      perception" is an observation and as such a presumption of human
      existance and thinking.
      --

      Signature......
      "In the best relationships sex is the booby prize."

      "I'm gotten so out of shape sittin' at the computer all day that I
      get out of breath when I have to reach for the percent key!"

      - Zeitman
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