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kurt vonnegut - existentalist?

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  • jborylo
    i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be considered a post- modern existentialist...does anyone agree or disagree?
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 29 9:28 AM
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      i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be considered a post-
      modern existentialist...does anyone agree or disagree?
    • greg goodwin
      Why?? GG ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 29 9:56 AM
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        Why??
        GG
        --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
        > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be
        > considered a post-
        > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
        > disagree?
        >
        >


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      • Bill Harris
        Vonnegut may be an absurdist, I guess it depends on definition of the two philosophical viewpoints. Bill ... From: jborylo To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent:
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 29 10:30 AM
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          Vonnegut may be an absurdist, I guess it depends on definition of the two philosophical viewpoints. Bill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jborylo
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:28 AM
          Subject: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


          i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be considered a post-
          modern existentialist...does anyone agree or disagree?


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        • Bill Harris
          Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart then he
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 29 12:06 PM
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            Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha twenty twoa. Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: greg goodwin
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
            Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


            Why??
            GG
            --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
            > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be
            > considered a post-
            > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
            > disagree?
            >
            >


            __________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • greg goodwin
            bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within the eye of the beholder! Isn t rationality also used inclusively redundant,ie. therefore also absurd. But
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 29 1:31 PM
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              bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within the
              eye of the beholder!
              Isn't rationality also used inclusively redundant,ie.
              therefore also absurd.
              But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to vonnegut
              being represented as "post-modern existentalist".
              Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
              deserving of this esteemed title!!!
              So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
              thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman and
              author.
              hehehehehe
              GG
              P.S. Well Bill, better???

              --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
              > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a
              > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know
              > the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart
              > then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha
              > twenty twoa. Bill
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: greg goodwin
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
              > existentalist?
              >
              >
              > Why??
              > GG
              > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
              > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be
              > > considered a post-
              > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
              > > disagree?
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
              > http://health.yahoo.com
              >
              > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              >
              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >


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            • Bill Harris
              Greg, Vonnegut wrote for writers workshop at the university of Iowa. I graduated from there so he was a god. Certainly Catch22 was an absurdist novel.
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 29 2:09 PM
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                Greg, Vonnegut wrote for writers workshop at the university of Iowa. I graduated from there so he was a god. Certainly Catch22 was an absurdist novel. Slaughterhouse 5 was hard for me to figure out. The insertion of an alien race made it almost a fantasy. I have been told the tralthamadorians represented god, if so he was a perverted god. In the end the protagonist preferred death to subserviance under the aliens. I don`t know if Vonnegut led a particulary hideous life or not. I think he had a pretty good time in Iowa City, we all did. Bill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: greg goodwin
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:31 PM
                Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within the
                eye of the beholder!
                Isn't rationality also used inclusively redundant,ie.
                therefore also absurd.
                But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to vonnegut
                being represented as "post-modern existentalist".
                Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman and
                author.
                hehehehehe
                GG
                P.S. Well Bill, better???

                --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a
                > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know
                > the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart
                > then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha
                > twenty twoa. Bill
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: greg goodwin
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                > existentalist?
                >
                >
                > Why??
                > GG
                > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be
                > > considered a post-
                > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
                > > disagree?
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                > http://health.yahoo.com
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                > Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                http://health.yahoo.com

                Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

                TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • George Walton
                Of course, if you insist the human condition is essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely suggests this observation is, in turn, essentially meaningless
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 29 2:50 PM
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                  Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                  essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely suggests
                  this observation is, in turn, essentially meaningless
                  and absurd, as well.

                  There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                  philosophically. And there is the futility of
                  expressing it with human language.

                  Philosophy, in other words, is not physics. Probably
                  never will be.

                  When push comes to shove, only moral and political
                  philosophy really matter anyway. And here philosophy
                  [like physics] is futile in resolving even the most
                  mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                  interactions from day to day.

                  Biggie






                  --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                  > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within
                  > the
                  > eye of the beholder!
                  > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                  > redundant,ie.
                  > therefore also absurd.
                  > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                  > vonnegut
                  > being represented as "post-modern existentalist".
                  > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                  > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                  > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                  > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman and
                  > author.
                  > hehehehehe
                  > GG
                  > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                  >
                  > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                  > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a
                  > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know
                  > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart
                  > > then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha
                  > > twenty twoa. Bill
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: greg goodwin
                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                  > > existentalist?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Why??
                  > > GG
                  > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                  > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could
                  > be
                  > > > considered a post-
                  > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
                  > > > disagree?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                  > wellness
                  > > http://health.yahoo.com
                  > >
                  > > Our Home:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                  > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                  > >
                  > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
                  > to:
                  > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  > Yahoo!
                  > > Terms of Service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > > removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                  > http://health.yahoo.com
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                  http://health.yahoo.com
                • josh bokelman
                  last i heard of vonnegut he was residing in a pretty constant state on drunkeness on the upper east side of manhattan. while i was living there about a year
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 29 3:05 PM
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                    last i heard of vonnegut he was residing in a pretty constant state on
                    drunkeness on the upper east side of manhattan. while i was living there
                    about a year ago i met a guy who was good friends with kurt's son mark and
                    this info was relayed to me. in no way am i judging him for this though or
                    saying he can't create in such a state - to each their very very own.
                    vonnegut's has such a sense of hope that i believe shines through in so many
                    of his novels. he sees such, for lack of better words, potential and
                    promise in people, but in the end seems to be let down by them time and time
                    again. it almost comes off to me as being like some sort of wound he
                    inflicted on himself that heals only to be opened once more. must be tough.
                    hell i feel the same way and it's pretty tough for me. question for bill
                    while i have the stage - did you receive your mfa in crative writing at iowa
                    or go there for undergrad. just curious josh

                    >From: "Bill Harris" <valleywestdental@...>
                    >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?
                    >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:09:58 -0500
                    >
                    >Greg, Vonnegut wrote for writers workshop at the university of Iowa. I
                    >graduated from there so he was a god. Certainly Catch22 was an absurdist
                    >novel. Slaughterhouse 5 was hard for me to figure out. The insertion of an
                    >alien race made it almost a fantasy. I have been told the tralthamadorians
                    >represented god, if so he was a perverted god. In the end the protagonist
                    >preferred death to subserviance under the aliens. I don`t know if Vonnegut
                    >led a particulary hideous life or not. I think he had a pretty good time in
                    >Iowa City, we all did. Bill
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: greg goodwin
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:31 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?
                    >
                    >
                    > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within the
                    > eye of the beholder!
                    > Isn't rationality also used inclusively redundant,ie.
                    > therefore also absurd.
                    > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to vonnegut
                    > being represented as "post-modern existentalist".
                    > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                    > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                    > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                    > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman and
                    > author.
                    > hehehehehe
                    > GG
                    > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                    >
                    > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                    > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a
                    > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know
                    > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart
                    > > then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha
                    > > twenty twoa. Bill
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: greg goodwin
                    > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                    > > existentalist?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Why??
                    > > GG
                    > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                    > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be
                    > > > considered a post-
                    > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
                    > > > disagree?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                    > > http://health.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                    > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                    > >
                    > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                    > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                    > > Terms of Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > > removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                    > http://health.yahoo.com
                    >
                    > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                    > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                    >
                    > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                    > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >


                    _________________________________________________________________
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                  • Bill Harris
                    Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the possible? Bill ... From: George Walton To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 30 7:40 AM
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                      Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the possible? Bill
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: George Walton
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                      Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                      essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely suggests
                      this observation is, in turn, essentially meaningless
                      and absurd, as well.

                      There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                      philosophically. And there is the futility of
                      expressing it with human language.

                      Philosophy, in other words, is not physics. Probably
                      never will be.

                      When push comes to shove, only moral and political
                      philosophy really matter anyway. And here philosophy
                      [like physics] is futile in resolving even the most
                      mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                      interactions from day to day.

                      Biggie






                      --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                      > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within
                      > the
                      > eye of the beholder!
                      > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                      > redundant,ie.
                      > therefore also absurd.
                      > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                      > vonnegut
                      > being represented as "post-modern existentalist".
                      > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                      > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                      > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                      > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman and
                      > author.
                      > hehehehehe
                      > GG
                      > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                      >
                      > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                      > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a
                      > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know
                      > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart
                      > > then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha
                      > > twenty twoa. Bill
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: greg goodwin
                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                      > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                      > > existentalist?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Why??
                      > > GG
                      > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                      > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could
                      > be
                      > > > considered a post-
                      > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
                      > > > disagree?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                      > wellness
                      > > http://health.yahoo.com
                      > >
                      > > Our Home:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                      > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                      > >
                      > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email
                      > to:
                      > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                      > Yahoo!
                      > > Terms of Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > > removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                      > http://health.yahoo.com
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                      http://health.yahoo.com

                      Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                      (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

                      TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                      existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bill Harris
                      Josh, I went to dental school at Iowa, but my major area of study was rebellion with a minor in street warfare. Bill ... From: josh bokelman To:
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 30 7:43 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Josh, I went to dental school at Iowa, but my major area of study was rebellion with a minor in street warfare. Bill
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: josh bokelman
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:05 PM
                        Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?



                        last i heard of vonnegut he was residing in a pretty constant state on
                        drunkeness on the upper east side of manhattan. while i was living there
                        about a year ago i met a guy who was good friends with kurt's son mark and
                        this info was relayed to me. in no way am i judging him for this though or
                        saying he can't create in such a state - to each their very very own.
                        vonnegut's has such a sense of hope that i believe shines through in so many
                        of his novels. he sees such, for lack of better words, potential and
                        promise in people, but in the end seems to be let down by them time and time
                        again. it almost comes off to me as being like some sort of wound he
                        inflicted on himself that heals only to be opened once more. must be tough.
                        hell i feel the same way and it's pretty tough for me. question for bill
                        while i have the stage - did you receive your mfa in crative writing at iowa
                        or go there for undergrad. just curious josh

                        >From: "Bill Harris" <valleywestdental@...>
                        >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?
                        >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:09:58 -0500
                        >
                        >Greg, Vonnegut wrote for writers workshop at the university of Iowa. I
                        >graduated from there so he was a god. Certainly Catch22 was an absurdist
                        >novel. Slaughterhouse 5 was hard for me to figure out. The insertion of an
                        >alien race made it almost a fantasy. I have been told the tralthamadorians
                        >represented god, if so he was a perverted god. In the end the protagonist
                        >preferred death to subserviance under the aliens. I don`t know if Vonnegut
                        >led a particulary hideous life or not. I think he had a pretty good time in
                        >Iowa City, we all did. Bill
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: greg goodwin
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:31 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?
                        >
                        >
                        > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself, within the
                        > eye of the beholder!
                        > Isn't rationality also used inclusively redundant,ie.
                        > therefore also absurd.
                        > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to vonnegut
                        > being represented as "post-modern existentalist".
                        > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                        > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                        > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                        > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman and
                        > author.
                        > hehehehehe
                        > GG
                        > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                        >
                        > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                        > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its a
                        > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to know
                        > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that smart
                        > > then he renders the world rational. Its a catcha
                        > > twenty twoa. Bill
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: greg goodwin
                        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                        > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                        > > existentalist?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Why??
                        > > GG
                        > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                        > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist, could be
                        > > > considered a post-
                        > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree or
                        > > > disagree?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                        > > http://health.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        > >
                        > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                        > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        > > Terms of Service.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > > removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
                        > http://health.yahoo.com
                        >
                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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                      • George Walton
                        Bill, Philosophy, in my view, is about trying to keep people from growing---morally and politically---farther and farther apart in how they come to understand
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 30 8:52 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Bill,

                          Philosophy, in my view, is about trying to keep people
                          from growing---morally and politically---farther and
                          farther apart in how they come to understand the
                          "nature" of "reality". Alas, for most, however, it is
                          still about trying to bring people closer and closer
                          together. How? In embracing some Idealistic rendition
                          of Reality. Their own, of course.

                          Which can be relatively harmless until it becomes a
                          full fledged Ideology able to attach itself to
                          politcal power [laws, guns, bombs, anthrax etc]. Then,
                          as history is wont to point out over and again, it
                          becomes very, very dangerous.

                          Biggie




                          --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                          > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                          > possible? Bill
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: George Walton
                          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                          > existentalist?
                          >
                          >
                          > Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                          > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                          > suggests
                          > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                          > meaningless
                          > and absurd, as well.
                          >
                          > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                          > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                          > expressing it with human language.
                          >
                          > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                          > Probably
                          > never will be.
                          >
                          > When push comes to shove, only moral and political
                          > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                          > philosophy
                          > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                          > most
                          > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                          > interactions from day to day.
                          >
                          > Biggie
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                          > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                          > within
                          > > the
                          > > eye of the beholder!
                          > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                          > > redundant,ie.
                          > > therefore also absurd.
                          > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                          > > vonnegut
                          > > being represented as "post-modern
                          > existentalist".
                          > > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                          > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                          > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                          > > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman
                          > and
                          > > author.
                          > > hehehehehe
                          > > GG
                          > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                          > >
                          > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its
                          > a
                          > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to
                          > know
                          > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that
                          > smart
                          > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                          > catcha
                          > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: greg goodwin
                          > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                          > > > existentalist?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Why??
                          > > > GG
                          > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                          > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                          > could
                          > > be
                          > > > > considered a post-
                          > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree
                          > or
                          > > > > disagree?
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > __________________________________________________
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                          > > wellness
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                          > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                          > more.)
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                          > email
                          > > to:
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                          > > Yahoo!
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                        • greg goodwin
                          Bill, If philosophy were to become a study of that which is positively possible, at that point wouldn t it become more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 30 9:20 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Bill,
                            If philosophy were to become a study of that which is
                            positively possible, at that point wouldn't it become
                            more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                            philosophy IS a science of thought, perhaps at it's
                            apex.
                            GG

                            --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                            > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                            > possible? Bill
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: George Walton
                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                            > existentalist?
                            >
                            >
                            > Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                            > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                            > suggests
                            > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                            > meaningless
                            > and absurd, as well.
                            >
                            > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                            > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                            > expressing it with human language.
                            >
                            > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                            > Probably
                            > never will be.
                            >
                            > When push comes to shove, only moral and political
                            > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                            > philosophy
                            > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                            > most
                            > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                            > interactions from day to day.
                            >
                            > Biggie
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                            > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                            > within
                            > > the
                            > > eye of the beholder!
                            > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                            > > redundant,ie.
                            > > therefore also absurd.
                            > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                            > > vonnegut
                            > > being represented as "post-modern
                            > existentalist".
                            > > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                            > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                            > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                            > > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman
                            > and
                            > > author.
                            > > hehehehehe
                            > > GG
                            > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                            > >
                            > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its
                            > a
                            > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to
                            > know
                            > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that
                            > smart
                            > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                            > catcha
                            > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: greg goodwin
                            > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                            > > > existentalist?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Why??
                            > > > GG
                            > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                            > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                            > could
                            > > be
                            > > > > considered a post-
                            > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree
                            > or
                            > > > > disagree?
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                            > > wellness
                            > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                            > > >
                            > > > Our Home:
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                            > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                            > more.)
                            > > >
                            > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                            > email
                            > > to:
                            > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >
                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                            > > Yahoo!
                            > > > Terms of Service.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > > > removed]
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                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                          • Bill Harris
                            Biggie, Eduard is the only one of us that tries to stick up for social norms. I try but I just can`t justify society as it now operates. Before I was old
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 30 10:58 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Biggie, Eduard is the only one of us that tries to stick up for social norms. I try but I just can`t justify society as it now operates. Before I was old enough to think about it , Society seemed fine. Eisenhour was president, the commies were bad and nobody knew the priests were fucking the little boys. Eduard has told me the best plan is to work hard enough within the system to garnish what you need, and then ignore it. Im thinking he is really wise. Bill
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: George Walton
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:52 AM
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                              Bill,

                              Philosophy, in my view, is about trying to keep people
                              from growing---morally and politically---farther and
                              farther apart in how they come to understand the
                              "nature" of "reality". Alas, for most, however, it is
                              still about trying to bring people closer and closer
                              together. How? In embracing some Idealistic rendition
                              of Reality. Their own, of course.

                              Which can be relatively harmless until it becomes a
                              full fledged Ideology able to attach itself to
                              politcal power [laws, guns, bombs, anthrax etc]. Then,
                              as history is wont to point out over and again, it
                              becomes very, very dangerous.

                              Biggie




                              --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                              > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                              > possible? Bill
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: George Walton
                              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                              > existentalist?
                              >
                              >
                              > Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                              > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                              > suggests
                              > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                              > meaningless
                              > and absurd, as well.
                              >
                              > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                              > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                              > expressing it with human language.
                              >
                              > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                              > Probably
                              > never will be.
                              >
                              > When push comes to shove, only moral and political
                              > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                              > philosophy
                              > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                              > most
                              > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                              > interactions from day to day.
                              >
                              > Biggie
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                              > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                              > within
                              > > the
                              > > eye of the beholder!
                              > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                              > > redundant,ie.
                              > > therefore also absurd.
                              > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                              > > vonnegut
                              > > being represented as "post-modern
                              > existentalist".
                              > > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                              > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                              > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                              > > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman
                              > and
                              > > author.
                              > > hehehehehe
                              > > GG
                              > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                              > >
                              > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its
                              > a
                              > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to
                              > know
                              > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that
                              > smart
                              > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                              > catcha
                              > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > From: greg goodwin
                              > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                              > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                              > > > existentalist?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Why??
                              > > > GG
                              > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                              > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                              > could
                              > > be
                              > > > > considered a post-
                              > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree
                              > or
                              > > > > disagree?
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                              > > wellness
                              > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                              > > >
                              > > > Our Home:
                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                              > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                              > more.)
                              > > >
                              > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                              > email
                              > > to:
                              > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                              > > Yahoo!
                              > > > Terms of Service.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > > > removed]
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                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > __________________________________________________
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                              > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
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                              > > http://health.yahoo.com
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                            • Bill Harris
                              Greg, You know if we try to say that we will be dumped upon by the liberal arts boys as being simplistic machine heads. What of emotion and art and beauty
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 30 11:17 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Greg, You know if we try to say that we will be dumped upon by the liberal arts boys as being simplistic machine heads. What of emotion and art and beauty and consoling?.I think it is a done deal. Science has obviated philosophy in it`s traditional role of framing the mysterious in the words of wisdom. We know how the universe works, It is the fucked up dealings of mankind that is the problem. Science is doing a fine job of telling us what is real, society is not processing the information. We will pay---again. Bill
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: greg goodwin
                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:20 AM
                                Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                                Bill,
                                If philosophy were to become a study of that which is
                                positively possible, at that point wouldn't it become
                                more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                                philosophy IS a science of thought, perhaps at it's
                                apex.
                                GG

                                --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                > possible? Bill
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: George Walton
                                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                > existentalist?
                                >
                                >
                                > Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                                > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                > suggests
                                > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                > meaningless
                                > and absurd, as well.
                                >
                                > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                > expressing it with human language.
                                >
                                > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                > Probably
                                > never will be.
                                >
                                > When push comes to shove, only moral and political
                                > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                > philosophy
                                > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                > most
                                > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                                > interactions from day to day.
                                >
                                > Biggie
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                > within
                                > > the
                                > > eye of the beholder!
                                > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                > > redundant,ie.
                                > > therefore also absurd.
                                > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                > > vonnegut
                                > > being represented as "post-modern
                                > existentalist".
                                > > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                                > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                                > > thinking concerning the distinguished gentleman
                                > and
                                > > author.
                                > > hehehehehe
                                > > GG
                                > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                > >
                                > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt. Its
                                > a
                                > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to
                                > know
                                > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that
                                > smart
                                > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                > catcha
                                > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: greg goodwin
                                > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                > > > existentalist?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Why??
                                > > > GG
                                > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                > could
                                > > be
                                > > > > considered a post-
                                > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone agree
                                > or
                                > > > > disagree?
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > __________________________________________________
                                > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                > > wellness
                                > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                > > >
                                > > > Our Home:
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                                > more.)
                                > > >
                                > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                                > email
                                > > to:
                                > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > > >
                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                > > Yahoo!
                                > > > Terms of Service.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > > > removed]
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                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > __________________________________________________
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                                > > http://health.yahoo.com
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                              • greg goodwin
                                Bill, At the risk of over simplification, the machine heads need persons of thought. Without dreamers we might still dwell in caves, drag our women around by
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 30 12:04 PM
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                                  Bill,
                                  At the risk of over simplification, the machine heads
                                  need persons of thought. Without dreamers we might
                                  still dwell in caves, drag our women around by the
                                  hair and have mass communication via grunting or (
                                  forgive please) sign language. Philosophy is an art of
                                  thought, a balance between right and not right. It is
                                  to trust in your beliefs even as you realize you may
                                  be wr~ng.
                                  Society, ah the ever trusting society, what a joke
                                  the word implies. As if everyone was interested in the
                                  same things, looked out for each other. Society as a
                                  whole, sucks! Society has fubared the entire vestige
                                  of what it should be. Granted there are exceptions but
                                  that is precisely what they are; the exceptions.
                                  You are assuredly correct in that we shall pay for
                                  allowing society to deteriorate to the current status.
                                  GG

                                  --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                  > Greg, You know if we try to say that we will be
                                  > dumped upon by the liberal arts boys as being
                                  > simplistic machine heads. What of emotion and art
                                  > and beauty and consoling?.I think it is a done deal.
                                  > Science has obviated philosophy in it`s traditional
                                  > role of framing the mysterious in the words of
                                  > wisdom. We know how the universe works, It is the
                                  > fucked up dealings of mankind that is the problem.
                                  > Science is doing a fine job of telling us what is
                                  > real, society is not processing the information. We
                                  > will pay---again. Bill
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: greg goodwin
                                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:20 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                  > existentalist?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Bill,
                                  > If philosophy were to become a study of that which
                                  > is
                                  > positively possible, at that point wouldn't it
                                  > become
                                  > more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                                  > philosophy IS a science of thought, perhaps at
                                  > it's
                                  > apex.
                                  > GG
                                  >
                                  > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                  > > possible? Bill
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: George Walton
                                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                  > > existentalist?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Of course, if you insist the human condition
                                  > is
                                  > > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                  > > suggests
                                  > > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                  > > meaningless
                                  > > and absurd, as well.
                                  > >
                                  > > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                  > > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                  > > expressing it with human language.
                                  > >
                                  > > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                  > > Probably
                                  > > never will be.
                                  > >
                                  > > When push comes to shove, only moral and
                                  > political
                                  > > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                  > > philosophy
                                  > > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                  > > most
                                  > > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our
                                  > social
                                  > > interactions from day to day.
                                  > >
                                  > > Biggie
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                  > > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                  > > within
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > eye of the beholder!
                                  > > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                  > > > redundant,ie.
                                  > > > therefore also absurd.
                                  > > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                  > > > vonnegut
                                  > > > being represented as "post-modern
                                  > > existentalist".
                                  > > > Few have suffered enough depressing
                                  > thoughts
                                  > > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                  > > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify
                                  > my
                                  > > > thinking concerning the distinguished
                                  > gentleman
                                  > > and
                                  > > > author.
                                  > > > hehehehehe
                                  > > > GG
                                  > > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt.
                                  > Its
                                  > > a
                                  > > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough
                                  > to
                                  > > know
                                  > > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is
                                  > that
                                  > > smart
                                  > > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                  > > catcha
                                  > > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > From: greg goodwin
                                  > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                  > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                  > > > > existentalist?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Why??
                                  > > > > GG
                                  > > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                  > > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                  > > could
                                  > > > be
                                  > > > > > considered a post-
                                  > > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone
                                  > agree
                                  > > or
                                  > > > > > disagree?
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > __________________________________________________
                                  > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
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                                  > > > wellness
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                                  > > > Yahoo!
                                  > > > > Terms of Service.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                                  > been
                                  > > > > removed]
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                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
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                                  > > >
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                                • George Walton
                                  Greg, Technical philosophy [logic and epistemology, for example] do approximate science in the sense they try to explain rationally [and, sometimes, very
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 30 1:57 PM
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                                    Greg,

                                    Technical philosophy [logic and epistemology, for
                                    example] do approximate science in the sense they try
                                    to explain rationally [and, sometimes, very
                                    obstrusely] the relationship between human language
                                    and that which it seeks to encompass regarding what is
                                    "real" out in the world. Also, the relationship
                                    between what we think we know and how we can or can
                                    not know what we think we know [big difference].

                                    Alas, however, that is not the sort of philosophy that
                                    means very much to 99.9% of folks inhabiting the
                                    planet. No, instead, it is moral and political
                                    philosophy that is, by far, most crucial to people. To
                                    wit: how OUGHT we to think, feel and behave around
                                    others?

                                    Here philosophers become most dangerous when they
                                    insist there are answers to encompass a dichotmy
                                    between Right and Wrong, Good and Bad human behavior.
                                    Their own, in other words.

                                    Biggie



                                    --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                    > Bill,
                                    > If philosophy were to become a study of that which
                                    > is
                                    > positively possible, at that point wouldn't it
                                    > become
                                    > more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                                    > philosophy IS a science of thought, perhaps at it's
                                    > apex.
                                    > GG
                                    >
                                    > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                    > > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                    > > possible? Bill
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: George Walton
                                    > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                    > > existentalist?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                                    > > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                    > > suggests
                                    > > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                    > > meaningless
                                    > > and absurd, as well.
                                    > >
                                    > > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                    > > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                    > > expressing it with human language.
                                    > >
                                    > > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                    > > Probably
                                    > > never will be.
                                    > >
                                    > > When push comes to shove, only moral and
                                    > political
                                    > > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                    > > philosophy
                                    > > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                    > > most
                                    > > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                                    > > interactions from day to day.
                                    > >
                                    > > Biggie
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                    > > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                    > > within
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > eye of the beholder!
                                    > > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                    > > > redundant,ie.
                                    > > > therefore also absurd.
                                    > > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                    > > > vonnegut
                                    > > > being represented as "post-modern
                                    > > existentalist".
                                    > > > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                                    > > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                    > > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                                    > > > thinking concerning the distinguished
                                    > gentleman
                                    > > and
                                    > > > author.
                                    > > > hehehehehe
                                    > > > GG
                                    > > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt.
                                    > Its
                                    > > a
                                    > > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to
                                    > > know
                                    > > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that
                                    > > smart
                                    > > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                    > > catcha
                                    > > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > > From: greg goodwin
                                    > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                    > > > > existentalist?
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Why??
                                    > > > > GG
                                    > > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                    > > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                    > > could
                                    > > > be
                                    > > > > > considered a post-
                                    > > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone
                                    > agree
                                    > > or
                                    > > > > > disagree?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                    > > > wellness
                                    > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Our Home:
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                    > > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                                    > > more.)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                                    > > email
                                    > > > to:
                                    > > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    > the
                                    > > > Yahoo!
                                    > > > > Terms of Service.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > > > > removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                    > > wellness
                                    > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > __________________________________________________
                                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                    > wellness
                                    > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                    > >
                                    > > Our Home:
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                                    > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                    > >
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                                    > to:
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                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > > removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > __________________________________________________
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                                  • George Walton
                                    Bill, Rumor has it that Eduard is Attorney General Ashcroft. Of course, I started it so I d take it with a couple barrels of salt. Biggie ... === message
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 30 2:01 PM
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                                      Bill,

                                      Rumor has it that Eduard is Attorney General Ashcroft.
                                      Of course, I started it so I'd take it with a couple
                                      barrels of salt.

                                      Biggie



                                      --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                      > Biggie, Eduard is the only one of us that tries to
                                      > stick up for social norms. I try but I just can`t
                                      > justify society as it now operates. Before I was old
                                      > enough to think about it , Society seemed fine.
                                      > Eisenhour was president, the commies were bad and
                                      > nobody knew the priests were fucking the little
                                      > boys. Eduard has told me the best plan is to work
                                      > hard enough within the system to garnish what you
                                      > need, and then ignore it. Im thinking he is really
                                      > wise. Bill
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: George Walton
                                      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:52 AM
                                      > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                      > existentalist?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Bill,
                                      >
                                      > Philosophy, in my view, is about trying to keep
                                      > people
                                      > from growing---morally and politically---farther
                                      > and
                                      > farther apart in how they come to understand the
                                      > "nature" of "reality". Alas, for most, however, it
                                      > is
                                      > still about trying to bring people closer and
                                      > closer
                                      > together. How? In embracing some Idealistic
                                      > rendition
                                      > of Reality. Their own, of course.
                                      >
                                      > Which can be relatively harmless until it becomes
                                      > a
                                      > full fledged Ideology able to attach itself to
                                      > politcal power [laws, guns, bombs, anthrax etc].
                                      > Then,
                                      > as history is wont to point out over and again, it
                                      > becomes very, very dangerous.
                                      >
                                      > Biggie
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                      > > possible? Bill
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: George Walton
                                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                      > > existentalist?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Of course, if you insist the human condition
                                      > is
                                      > > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                      > > suggests
                                      > > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                      > > meaningless
                                      > > and absurd, as well.
                                      > >
                                      > > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                      > > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                      > > expressing it with human language.
                                      > >
                                      > > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                      > > Probably
                                      > > never will be.
                                      > >
                                      > > When push comes to shove, only moral and
                                      > political
                                      > > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                      > > philosophy
                                      > > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                      > > most
                                      > > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our
                                      > social
                                      > > interactions from day to day.
                                      > >
                                      > > Biggie
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                      > > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                      > > within
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > eye of the beholder!
                                      > > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                      > > > redundant,ie.
                                      > > > therefore also absurd.
                                      > > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                      > > > vonnegut
                                      > > > being represented as "post-modern
                                      > > existentalist".
                                      > > > Few have suffered enough depressing
                                      > thoughts
                                      > > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                      > > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify
                                      > my
                                      > > > thinking concerning the distinguished
                                      > gentleman
                                      > > and
                                      > > > author.
                                      > > > hehehehehe
                                      > > > GG
                                      > > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt.
                                      > Its
                                      > > a
                                      > > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough
                                      > to
                                      > > know
                                      > > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is
                                      > that
                                      > > smart
                                      > > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                      > > catcha
                                      > > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: greg goodwin
                                      > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                      > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                      > > > > existentalist?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Why??
                                      > > > > GG
                                      > > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                      > > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                      > > could
                                      > > > be
                                      > > > > > considered a post-
                                      > > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone
                                      > agree
                                      > > or
                                      > > > > > disagree?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > __________________________________________________
                                      > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                      > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                      > > > wellness
                                      > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Our Home:
                                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                      > > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                                      > > more.)
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                                      > > email
                                      > > > to:
                                      > > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      > the
                                      > > > Yahoo!
                                      > > > > Terms of Service.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                                      > been
                                      > > > > removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > __________________________________________________
                                      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                      > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                      > > wellness
                                      > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > __________________________________________________
                                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                      > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
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                                      >
                                      === message truncated ===


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                                    • Bill Harris
                                      Biggie, For the present time I doubt I would put much interest in any philosopher who was not well grounded in science. True there are some great wordmasters
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 30 2:19 PM
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                                        Biggie, For the present time I doubt I would put much interest in any philosopher who was not well grounded in science. True there are some great wordmasters out there who are more poet than modern philosopher. In fact they are more salesman than all else. Most of the politicians and all the moralists fit into this group. They can speak only lies because they never understood the reality of the construct Bill
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: George Walton
                                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:57 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                                        Greg,

                                        Technical philosophy [logic and epistemology, for
                                        example] do approximate science in the sense they try
                                        to explain rationally [and, sometimes, very
                                        obstrusely] the relationship between human language
                                        and that which it seeks to encompass regarding what is
                                        "real" out in the world. Also, the relationship
                                        between what we think we know and how we can or can
                                        not know what we think we know [big difference].

                                        Alas, however, that is not the sort of philosophy that
                                        means very much to 99.9% of folks inhabiting the
                                        planet. No, instead, it is moral and political
                                        philosophy that is, by far, most crucial to people. To
                                        wit: how OUGHT we to think, feel and behave around
                                        others?

                                        Here philosophers become most dangerous when they
                                        insist there are answers to encompass a dichotmy
                                        between Right and Wrong, Good and Bad human behavior.
                                        Their own, in other words.

                                        Biggie



                                        --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                        > Bill,
                                        > If philosophy were to become a study of that which
                                        > is
                                        > positively possible, at that point wouldn't it
                                        > become
                                        > more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                                        > philosophy IS a science of thought, perhaps at it's
                                        > apex.
                                        > GG
                                        >
                                        > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                        > > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                        > > possible? Bill
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: George Walton
                                        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                        > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                        > > existentalist?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Of course, if you insist the human condition is
                                        > > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                        > > suggests
                                        > > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                        > > meaningless
                                        > > and absurd, as well.
                                        > >
                                        > > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                        > > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                        > > expressing it with human language.
                                        > >
                                        > > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                        > > Probably
                                        > > never will be.
                                        > >
                                        > > When push comes to shove, only moral and
                                        > political
                                        > > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                        > > philosophy
                                        > > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                        > > most
                                        > > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our social
                                        > > interactions from day to day.
                                        > >
                                        > > Biggie
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                        > > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                        > > within
                                        > > > the
                                        > > > eye of the beholder!
                                        > > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                        > > > redundant,ie.
                                        > > > therefore also absurd.
                                        > > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                        > > > vonnegut
                                        > > > being represented as "post-modern
                                        > > existentalist".
                                        > > > Few have suffered enough depressing thoughts
                                        > > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                        > > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify my
                                        > > > thinking concerning the distinguished
                                        > gentleman
                                        > > and
                                        > > > author.
                                        > > > hehehehehe
                                        > > > GG
                                        > > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt.
                                        > Its
                                        > > a
                                        > > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough to
                                        > > know
                                        > > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is that
                                        > > smart
                                        > > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                        > > catcha
                                        > > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > From: greg goodwin
                                        > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                        > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                        > > > > existentalist?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Why??
                                        > > > > GG
                                        > > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                        > > could
                                        > > > be
                                        > > > > > considered a post-
                                        > > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone
                                        > agree
                                        > > or
                                        > > > > > disagree?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > __________________________________________________
                                        > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                        > > > wellness
                                        > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Eduard Alf
                                        George, Why should we consider that philosophers become dangerous? So what? Your task is to pick the philosopher that suits you. If you don t like the
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Apr 30 2:47 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          George,

                                          Why should we consider that philosophers become dangerous? So what? Your
                                          task is to pick the philosopher that suits you. If you don't like the
                                          interpretation then you go onto something else. Society is not that bad ..
                                          in fact it is the only thing we have.

                                          eduard
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: George Walton [mailto:iambiguously@...]
                                          Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:57 PM
                                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                                          Greg,

                                          Technical philosophy [logic and epistemology, for
                                          example] do approximate science in the sense they try
                                          to explain rationally [and, sometimes, very
                                          obstrusely] the relationship between human language
                                          and that which it seeks to encompass regarding what is
                                          "real" out in the world. Also, the relationship
                                          between what we think we know and how we can or can
                                          not know what we think we know [big difference].

                                          Alas, however, that is not the sort of philosophy that
                                          means very much to 99.9% of folks inhabiting the
                                          planet. No, instead, it is moral and political
                                          philosophy that is, by far, most crucial to people. To
                                          wit: how OUGHT we to think, feel and behave around
                                          others?

                                          Here philosophers become most dangerous when they
                                          insist there are answers to encompass a dichotmy
                                          between Right and Wrong, Good and Bad human behavior.
                                          Their own, in other words.

                                          Biggie


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Eduard Alf
                                          George, No ... eduard is part of the collective, up here in the Great White North ... we will assimilate you .. resistance is futile .. captain jack ... From:
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Apr 30 2:49 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            George,

                                            No ... eduard is part of the collective, up here in the Great White North
                                            ... we will assimilate you .. resistance is futile ..

                                            captain jack
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: George Walton [mailto:iambiguously@...]
                                            Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:02 PM
                                            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                                            Bill,

                                            Rumor has it that Eduard is Attorney General Ashcroft.
                                            Of course, I started it so I'd take it with a couple
                                            barrels of salt.

                                            Biggie


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • greg goodwin
                                            Biggie, Well spoken, hence my agreement based upon your dissection of 99.9% of present day populous. Various cultures and nations have thought process that do
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Apr 30 2:58 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Biggie,
                                              Well spoken, hence my agreement based upon your
                                              dissection of 99.9% of present day populous. Various
                                              cultures and nations have thought process that do not
                                              run parallel with our own. Ring in the "how we ought
                                              to think" psychology assessment, who is TRULY right or
                                              wrong??? And why??
                                              GG
                                              --- George Walton <iambiguously@...> wrote:
                                              > Greg,
                                              >
                                              > Technical philosophy [logic and epistemology, for
                                              > example] do approximate science in the sense they
                                              > try
                                              > to explain rationally [and, sometimes, very
                                              > obstrusely] the relationship between human language
                                              > and that which it seeks to encompass regarding what
                                              > is
                                              > "real" out in the world. Also, the relationship
                                              > between what we think we know and how we can or can
                                              > not know what we think we know [big difference].
                                              >
                                              > Alas, however, that is not the sort of philosophy
                                              > that
                                              > means very much to 99.9% of folks inhabiting the
                                              > planet. No, instead, it is moral and political
                                              > philosophy that is, by far, most crucial to people.
                                              > To
                                              > wit: how OUGHT we to think, feel and behave around
                                              > others?
                                              >
                                              > Here philosophers become most dangerous when they
                                              > insist there are answers to encompass a dichotmy
                                              > between Right and Wrong, Good and Bad human
                                              > behavior.
                                              > Their own, in other words.
                                              >
                                              > Biggie
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                              > > Bill,
                                              > > If philosophy were to become a study of that
                                              > which
                                              > > is
                                              > > positively possible, at that point wouldn't it
                                              > > become
                                              > > more of a science? Then again I suppose that
                                              > > philosophy IS a science of thought, perhaps at
                                              > it's
                                              > > apex.
                                              > > GG
                                              > >
                                              > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > > > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                              > > > possible? Bill
                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > From: George Walton
                                              > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                              > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                              > > > existentalist?
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Of course, if you insist the human condition
                                              > is
                                              > > > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                              > > > suggests
                                              > > > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                              > > > meaningless
                                              > > > and absurd, as well.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                              > > > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                              > > > expressing it with human language.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                              > > > Probably
                                              > > > never will be.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > When push comes to shove, only moral and
                                              > > political
                                              > > > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                              > > > philosophy
                                              > > > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                              > > > most
                                              > > > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our
                                              > social
                                              > > > interactions from day to day.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Biggie
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                              > > > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                              > > > within
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > eye of the beholder!
                                              > > > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                              > > > > redundant,ie.
                                              > > > > therefore also absurd.
                                              > > > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                              > > > > vonnegut
                                              > > > > being represented as "post-modern
                                              > > > existentalist".
                                              > > > > Few have suffered enough depressing
                                              > thoughts
                                              > > > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                              > > > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify
                                              > my
                                              > > > > thinking concerning the distinguished
                                              > > gentleman
                                              > > > and
                                              > > > > author.
                                              > > > > hehehehehe
                                              > > > > GG
                                              > > > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                              > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt.
                                              > > Its
                                              > > > a
                                              > > > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough
                                              > to
                                              > > > know
                                              > > > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is
                                              > that
                                              > > > smart
                                              > > > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                              > > > catcha
                                              > > > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                              > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > > > From: greg goodwin
                                              > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                              > > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                              > > > > > existentalist?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Why??
                                              > > > > > GG
                                              > > > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                              > > > could
                                              > > > > be
                                              > > > > > > considered a post-
                                              > > > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone
                                              > > agree
                                              > > > or
                                              > > > > > > disagree?
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > __________________________________________________
                                              > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                              > > > > wellness
                                              > > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Our Home:
                                              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                              > > > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                                              > > > more.)
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                                              > > > email
                                              > > > > to:
                                              > > > > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > Yahoo!
                                              > > > > > Terms of Service.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                                              > been
                                              > > > > > removed]
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > __________________________________________________
                                              > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                              > > > wellness
                                              > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > __________________________________________________
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                                              > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                              >
                                              === message truncated ===


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                                            • Bill Harris
                                              bIGGIE, nOW YOU HAVE INSULTED eDUARD BEYOND REPAIR. eDUARD HAS A BEARD, NOT A TAIL. . bILL ... From: George Walton To: existlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
                                              Message 22 of 22 , May 1, 2002
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                bIGGIE, nOW YOU HAVE INSULTED eDUARD BEYOND REPAIR. eDUARD HAS A BEARD, NOT A TAIL. . bILL
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: George Walton
                                                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:01 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut - existentalist?


                                                Bill,

                                                Rumor has it that Eduard is Attorney General Ashcroft.
                                                Of course, I started it so I'd take it with a couple
                                                barrels of salt.

                                                Biggie



                                                --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                                > Biggie, Eduard is the only one of us that tries to
                                                > stick up for social norms. I try but I just can`t
                                                > justify society as it now operates. Before I was old
                                                > enough to think about it , Society seemed fine.
                                                > Eisenhour was president, the commies were bad and
                                                > nobody knew the priests were fucking the little
                                                > boys. Eduard has told me the best plan is to work
                                                > hard enough within the system to garnish what you
                                                > need, and then ignore it. Im thinking he is really
                                                > wise. Bill
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: George Walton
                                                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:52 AM
                                                > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                                > existentalist?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Bill,
                                                >
                                                > Philosophy, in my view, is about trying to keep
                                                > people
                                                > from growing---morally and politically---farther
                                                > and
                                                > farther apart in how they come to understand the
                                                > "nature" of "reality". Alas, for most, however, it
                                                > is
                                                > still about trying to bring people closer and
                                                > closer
                                                > together. How? In embracing some Idealistic
                                                > rendition
                                                > of Reality. Their own, of course.
                                                >
                                                > Which can be relatively harmless until it becomes
                                                > a
                                                > full fledged Ideology able to attach itself to
                                                > politcal power [laws, guns, bombs, anthrax etc].
                                                > Then,
                                                > as history is wont to point out over and again, it
                                                > becomes very, very dangerous.
                                                >
                                                > Biggie
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > > Biggie, What if philosophy became a study of the
                                                > > possible? Bill
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: George Walton
                                                > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:50 PM
                                                > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                                > > existentalist?
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Of course, if you insist the human condition
                                                > is
                                                > > essentially meaningless and absurd, it merely
                                                > > suggests
                                                > > this observation is, in turn, essentially
                                                > > meaningless
                                                > > and absurd, as well.
                                                > >
                                                > > There is whatever "reality" may or may not be
                                                > > philosophically. And there is the futility of
                                                > > expressing it with human language.
                                                > >
                                                > > Philosophy, in other words, is not physics.
                                                > > Probably
                                                > > never will be.
                                                > >
                                                > > When push comes to shove, only moral and
                                                > political
                                                > > philosophy really matter anyway. And here
                                                > > philosophy
                                                > > [like physics] is futile in resolving even the
                                                > > most
                                                > > mundane ethical quandaries we face in our
                                                > social
                                                > > interactions from day to day.
                                                > >
                                                > > Biggie
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- greg goodwin <ggoodwin56@...> wrote:
                                                > > > bill, the depth of aburdity, is of itself,
                                                > > within
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > eye of the beholder!
                                                > > > Isn't rationality also used inclusively
                                                > > > redundant,ie.
                                                > > > therefore also absurd.
                                                > > > But again I must ask "why" as pertaining to
                                                > > > vonnegut
                                                > > > being represented as "post-modern
                                                > > existentalist".
                                                > > > Few have suffered enough depressing
                                                > thoughts
                                                > > > deserving of this esteemed title!!!
                                                > > > So I suppose it was my mistake to simplify
                                                > my
                                                > > > thinking concerning the distinguished
                                                > gentleman
                                                > > and
                                                > > > author.
                                                > > > hehehehehe
                                                > > > GG
                                                > > > P.S. Well Bill, better???
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- Bill Harris <valleywestdental@...>
                                                > > wrote:
                                                > > > > Greg, you shit. Play the game goddammitt.
                                                > Its
                                                > > a
                                                > > > > catcha twenty twoa. You are smart enough
                                                > to
                                                > > know
                                                > > > > the world is absurd, but if someone is
                                                > that
                                                > > smart
                                                > > > > then he renders the world rational. Its a
                                                > > catcha
                                                > > > > twenty twoa. Bill
                                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > From: greg goodwin
                                                > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:56 AM
                                                > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] kurt vonnegut -
                                                > > > > existentalist?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Why??
                                                > > > > GG
                                                > > > > --- jborylo <jborylo@...> wrote:
                                                > > > > > i believe kurt vonnegut, the novelist,
                                                > > could
                                                > > > be
                                                > > > > > considered a post-
                                                > > > > > modern existentialist...does anyone
                                                > agree
                                                > > or
                                                > > > > > disagree?
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > __________________________________________________
                                                > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                > > > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and
                                                > > > wellness
                                                > > > > http://health.yahoo.com
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Our Home:
                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                                > > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and
                                                > > more.)
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an
                                                > > email
                                                > > > to:
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                                                > the
                                                > > > Yahoo!
                                                > > > > Terms of Service.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                                                > been
                                                > > > > removed]
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                                                > > > >
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                                                > >
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