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Re: [existlist] Existentialism and the necessity of God...

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  • Jared Frailey
    ... What good is a personal morality? Whatever good the individual can get out of it. I tend to enjoy producing my own morals (opinions, ideals, etc.) ... I
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 19, 2000
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      > Doesn't morality almost entirely begin and end with
      > other people? What good
      > is a "personal morality".
      What good is a personal morality? Whatever good the
      individual can get out of it. I tend to enjoy
      producing my own morals (opinions, ideals, etc.)

      > What is often termed as "brainwashing" is
      > inevitable, you can't remove it.
      > Even if you think that you have formed your own
      > opinions, they were surely
      > not based on totally original thoughts? We will
      > still always, to an extent,
      > be cogs in a machine.

      I concede that "brainwashing" is inevitable if you are
      in contact with other individuals, society, religion,
      or government. My opinions are not based enitirely on
      my own original thoughts, but the formation of my
      opinions was an active venture: I sought and analyzed
      the opinions of others. Morality is an inactive
      process: the individual absorbs the opinions of
      others.

      > The uneducated are already developing a sense of
      > what is right and wrong and
      > the fact that it has no moral basis derived from
      > respect for a superior
      > being makes it all the more catastrophic.
      > Directionless futility.


      Catastrophic in what way? Is it because they are not
      developing in a direction that you would have them go?


      The uneducated people, that I know personally, derive
      all of their values and morals from their church, the
      members of their church, and other community members.
      This to me does seem directionless. My ideal would be
      where every individual decided what would be "good"
      and "evil" to them personally. There seems more
      personal direction in my ideal, but societal,
      governmental, and religious direction would fade.

      Best Regards,
      Jared
    • Amber Leigh Griffioen
      ... So if I go through an exhaustive mental process and decide that, to me personally, it would be OK to hit another person in the head with a baseball bat,
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 20, 2000
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        Jared Frailey <lostmaia@...> writes:

        > The uneducated people, that I know personally, derive
        > all of their values and morals from their church, the
        > members of their church, and other community members.
        > This to me does seem directionless. My ideal would be
        > where every individual decided what would be "good"
        > and "evil" to them personally. There seems more
        > personal direction in my ideal, but societal,
        > governmental, and religious direction would fade.

        So if I go through an exhaustive mental process and decide that, to me personally,
        it would be OK to hit another person in the head with a baseball bat, you'd
        support that because it was my own personal idea of "good"? Because as soon as
        you step in and say it's not OK, you are imposing some sort of moral law over me.

        Sorry if I'm nitpicking,

        *Devil's Advocate*

        * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        "I am no bird; and no net ensnares me; I am a free human being with an
        independent will, which I now exert to leave you." -Jane Eyre
        * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        Amber Griffioen
        griffioe@...
        amber_griffs@...
        http://www.geocities.com/amber_griffs
      • Jared Frailey
        As long as you are not harming another person s freedom, you should be free to act on or think what you wish. I wouldn t be allowed to lock someone in a cage
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 20, 2000
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          As long as you are not harming another person's
          freedom, you should be free to act on or think what
          you wish. I wouldn't be allowed to lock someone in a
          cage or kill them, but I would be free to do anything
          that does not harm another person's freedom. :-)


          --- Amber Leigh Griffioen <griffioe@...> wrote:
          > Jared Frailey <lostmaia@...> writes:
          >
          > > The uneducated people, that I know personally,
          > derive
          > > all of their values and morals from their church,
          > the
          > > members of their church, and other community
          > members.
          > > This to me does seem directionless. My ideal
          > would be
          > > where every individual decided what would be
          > "good"
          > > and "evil" to them personally. There seems more
          > > personal direction in my ideal, but societal,
          > > governmental, and religious direction would fade.
          >
          > So if I go through an exhaustive mental process and
          > decide that, to me personally,
          > it would be OK to hit another person in the head
          > with a baseball bat, you'd
          > support that because it was my own personal idea of
          > "good"? Because as soon as
          > you step in and say it's not OK, you are imposing
          > some sort of moral law over me.
          >
          > Sorry if I'm nitpicking,
          >
          > *Devil's Advocate*
          >
          > * * * * * * * * * * * * *
          > "I am no bird; and no net ensnares me; I am a free
          > human being with an
          > independent will, which I now exert to leave you."
          > -Jane Eyre
          > * * * * * * * * * * * * *
          > Amber Griffioen
          > griffioe@...
          > amber_griffs@...
          > http://www.geocities.com/amber_griffs
          >


          =====
          Best wishes,
          Frailey


          ----------------------
          Revering the universe, caring for nature, celebrating life -
          The World Pantheist Movement: http://www.pantheism.net/index.htm
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