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non-action and will

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  • Eduard Alf
    I was just thinking about the subject of will and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of Physics. It occurs to me that will is similar to
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 3, 2002
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      I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
      and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
      Physics.

      It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
      "non-action".

      According to Chuang-tzu:

      "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
      keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
      what it naturally does, so that nature will be
      satisfied".

      So my thinking is that non-action is action which
      is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
      have this ability are the most attuned to the
      harmonies within nature.

      eduard
    • Bill Harris
      Eduard, Our ideas on will are sssssooo different . I see will coming into play after arduous contemplation. I also see it as active and malleable. The greater
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 4, 2002
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        Eduard, Our ideas on will are sssssooo different . I see will coming into
        play after arduous contemplation. I also see it as active and malleable. The
        greater part of life exists in an automatic arena that does not need the
        operation of will. It may be covered by former willful acts. As example,
        getting up in the morning to go to work. That takes will but for people our
        age was resolved years ago. Fighting a business or political battle, is an
        active matter. It takes constant modifacation and incessant application of
        will. How many times do you ask yourself the question, "what the hell am I
        doing this for"?If you cannot reinforce the rational you cease the willful
        train of action. I see will as subserviant to intellect. It is wholly goal
        orientated. The most broad acts of will are driven by philosophy and may be
        to exists what faith based people call morals. Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
        To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:36 PM
        Subject: [existlist] non-action and will


        > I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
        > and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
        > Physics.
        >
        > It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
        > "non-action".
        >
        > According to Chuang-tzu:
        >
        > "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
        > keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
        > what it naturally does, so that nature will be
        > satisfied".
        >
        > So my thinking is that non-action is action which
        > is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
        > have this ability are the most attuned to the
        > harmonies within nature.
        >
        > eduard
        >
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Bill Harris
        Eduard, More about the ecology of Iowa. We have now been ranked dead last of all states in environmental spending.In that better than 90% of our land mass is
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 4, 2002
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          Eduard, More about the ecology of Iowa. We have now been ranked dead last of
          all states in environmental spending.In that better than 90% of our land
          mass is under cultivation and modern agriculture is an environmental threat
          that probably presents a problem. The legislature says it has passed the
          necessary legislation, the gov says he has signed it, but there is no money
          to fund the regulation. Round and round we go. Oh, by the way, It is now
          supposed to be good human responsibility to feed the masses in Afganistan,
          Somalia and Etheopia while spreading modern agricultural methods into the
          third world. Our best hope seems to be they have found water on mars. Bill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
          To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:36 PM
          Subject: [existlist] non-action and will


          > I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
          > and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
          > Physics.
          >
          > It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
          > "non-action".
          >
          > According to Chuang-tzu:
          >
          > "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
          > keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
          > what it naturally does, so that nature will be
          > satisfied".
          >
          > So my thinking is that non-action is action which
          > is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
          > have this ability are the most attuned to the
          > harmonies within nature.
          >
          > eduard
          >
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Eduard Alf
          hey, did they really find water on mars? where did you read that? ... From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@netins.net] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:53 PM To:
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 5, 2002
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            hey, did they really find water on mars? where did you read that?
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
            Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:53 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will


            Eduard, More about the ecology of Iowa. We have now been ranked dead last
            of
            all states in environmental spending.In that better than 90% of our land
            mass is under cultivation and modern agriculture is an environmental
            threat
            that probably presents a problem. The legislature says it has passed the
            necessary legislation, the gov says he has signed it, but there is no
            money
            to fund the regulation. Round and round we go. Oh, by the way, It is now
            supposed to be good human responsibility to feed the masses in Afganistan,
            Somalia and Etheopia while spreading modern agricultural methods into the
            third world. Our best hope seems to be they have found water on mars. Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
            To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:36 PM
            Subject: [existlist] non-action and will


            > I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
            > and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
            > Physics.
            >
            > It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
            > "non-action".
            >
            > According to Chuang-tzu:
            >
            > "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
            > keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
            > what it naturally does, so that nature will be
            > satisfied".
            >
            > So my thinking is that non-action is action which
            > is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
            > have this ability are the most attuned to the
            > harmonies within nature.
            >
            > eduard
            >
            >
            >
            > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eduard Alf
            Bill, Yep. Lets say you have two people who really desire to be rich. They have the same desire, but it is only one of them actually takes action to get
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 5, 2002
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              Bill,

              Yep. Lets say you have two people who really desire to be rich. They have
              the same desire, but it is only one of them actually takes action to get
              money. That is "will". I submit that it is not related to desire. It is
              not subservient to intellect, it is entirely different. Neither does it
              have anything to do with morals, or philosophy.

              eduard


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
              Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:59 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will


              Eduard, Our ideas on will are sssssooo different . I see will coming into
              play after arduous contemplation. I also see it as active and malleable.
              The
              greater part of life exists in an automatic arena that does not need the
              operation of will. It may be covered by former willful acts. As example,
              getting up in the morning to go to work. That takes will but for people
              our
              age was resolved years ago. Fighting a business or political battle, is an
              active matter. It takes constant modifacation and incessant application of
              will. How many times do you ask yourself the question, "what the hell am I
              doing this for"?If you cannot reinforce the rational you cease the willful
              train of action. I see will as subserviant to intellect. It is wholly
              goal
              orientated. The most broad acts of will are driven by philosophy and may
              be
              to exists what faith based people call morals. Bill
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
              To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:36 PM
              Subject: [existlist] non-action and will


              > I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
              > and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
              > Physics.
              >
              > It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
              > "non-action".
              >
              > According to Chuang-tzu:
              >
              > "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
              > keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
              > what it naturally does, so that nature will be
              > satisfied".
              >
              > So my thinking is that non-action is action which
              > is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
              > have this ability are the most attuned to the
              > harmonies within nature.
              >
              > eduard
              >
              >
              >
              > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              >
              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
              > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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              ADVERTISEMENT




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              (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bill Harris
              Yes, incorporated in an ice/dust layer, near the surface, in the southern hemisphere. Can`t skate on it however. Bill ... From: Eduard Alf
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 6, 2002
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                Yes, incorporated in an ice/dust layer, near the surface, in the southern
                hemisphere. Can`t skate on it however. Bill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 6:23 PM
                Subject: RE: [existlist] non-action and will


                > hey, did they really find water on mars? where did you read that?
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                > Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:53 PM
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will
                >
                >
                > Eduard, More about the ecology of Iowa. We have now been ranked dead
                last
                > of
                > all states in environmental spending.In that better than 90% of our land
                > mass is under cultivation and modern agriculture is an environmental
                > threat
                > that probably presents a problem. The legislature says it has passed the
                > necessary legislation, the gov says he has signed it, but there is no
                > money
                > to fund the regulation. Round and round we go. Oh, by the way, It is
                now
                > supposed to be good human responsibility to feed the masses in
                Afganistan,
                > Somalia and Etheopia while spreading modern agricultural methods into
                the
                > third world. Our best hope seems to be they have found water on mars.
                Bill
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                > To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:36 PM
                > Subject: [existlist] non-action and will
                >
                >
                > > I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
                > > and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
                > > Physics.
                > >
                > > It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
                > > "non-action".
                > >
                > > According to Chuang-tzu:
                > >
                > > "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
                > > keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
                > > what it naturally does, so that nature will be
                > > satisfied".
                > >
                > > So my thinking is that non-action is action which
                > > is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
                > > have this ability are the most attuned to the
                > > harmonies within nature.
                > >
                > > eduard
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                > >
                > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
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                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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              • Bill Harris
                OK , But it has lots to do with the application of morals and philosophy. Those taliban dying in Afganistan are willfully supporting their moral code at the
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 6, 2002
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                  OK , But it has lots to do with the application of morals and philosophy.
                  Those taliban dying in Afganistan are willfully supporting their moral code
                  at the expense of their lives. The situation is driven by philosophy driven
                  by will. Eh. Bill
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                  To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:33 PM
                  Subject: RE: [existlist] non-action and will


                  > Bill,
                  >
                  > Yep. Lets say you have two people who really desire to be rich. They
                  have
                  > the same desire, but it is only one of them actually takes action to get
                  > money. That is "will". I submit that it is not related to desire. It is
                  > not subservient to intellect, it is entirely different. Neither does it
                  > have anything to do with morals, or philosophy.
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:59 PM
                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will
                  >
                  >
                  > Eduard, Our ideas on will are sssssooo different . I see will coming
                  into
                  > play after arduous contemplation. I also see it as active and malleable.
                  > The
                  > greater part of life exists in an automatic arena that does not need
                  the
                  > operation of will. It may be covered by former willful acts. As example,
                  > getting up in the morning to go to work. That takes will but for people
                  > our
                  > age was resolved years ago. Fighting a business or political battle, is
                  an
                  > active matter. It takes constant modifacation and incessant application
                  of
                  > will. How many times do you ask yourself the question, "what the hell am
                  I
                  > doing this for"?If you cannot reinforce the rational you cease the
                  willful
                  > train of action. I see will as subserviant to intellect. It is wholly
                  > goal
                  > orientated. The most broad acts of will are driven by philosophy and may
                  > be
                  > to exists what faith based people call morals. Bill
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                  > To: "Existlist" <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:36 PM
                  > Subject: [existlist] non-action and will
                  >
                  >
                  > > I was just thinking about the subject of "will"
                  > > and got into reading of Heraclitus in the Tao of
                  > > Physics.
                  > >
                  > > It occurs to me that "will" is similar to
                  > > "non-action".
                  > >
                  > > According to Chuang-tzu:
                  > >
                  > > "Non-action does not mean doing nothing and
                  > > keeping silent. Let everything be allowed to do
                  > > what it naturally does, so that nature will be
                  > > satisfied".
                  > >
                  > > So my thinking is that non-action is action which
                  > > is taken spontaneously without thought. Those who
                  > > have this ability are the most attuned to the
                  > > harmonies within nature.
                  > >
                  > > eduard
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                  > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                  > >
                  > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                  > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                  > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                  >
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                  > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                  > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                  >
                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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                • Eduard Alf
                  Bill, I do not doubt that one proceeds to a moment of action, on the basis morals and philosophy. My point is that, at the moment [the microsecond] when
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 6, 2002
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                    Bill,

                    I do not doubt that one proceeds to a moment of action, on the basis morals
                    and philosophy. My point is that, at the moment [the microsecond] when
                    philosophy turns to action, something else comes into play. The brain cant
                    do two things at the same time. It is like a car which has been idling at a
                    stop sign and then put into gear to cross the intersection. The engine is
                    still there, but something else occurs to cause the wheels to turn.

                    The difference of our opinions may be a matter of the perception of time. I
                    take it that you are looking at the longer period which would indeed include
                    both philosophical thinking and action. My perception is of the exceedingly
                    small period which is the transition from thinking to action.

                    By the way, have you or anyone read "The End of Time ... The Next Revolution
                    in Physics" by Julian Barbour. I have just started it and it is not exactly
                    easy going. His point seems to be that the idea of a space-time continum is
                    faulty, since "time" does not actually exist.

                    eduard
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:57 AM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will


                    OK , But it has lots to do with the application of morals and philosophy.
                    Those taliban dying in Afganistan are willfully supporting their moral
                    code
                    at the expense of their lives. The situation is driven by philosophy
                    driven
                    by will. Eh. Bill


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eduard Alf
                    Bill, You may not be able to skate on it, but I bet there is a Loonie buried in it somewhere ... :-) eduard ... From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@netins.net]
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 6, 2002
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                      Bill,

                      You may not be able to skate on it, but I bet there is a Loonie buried in it
                      somewhere ... :-)

                      eduard
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:51 AM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will


                      Yes, incorporated in an ice/dust layer, near the surface, in the southern
                      hemisphere. Can`t skate on it however. Bill


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bill Harris
                      Eduard, I fully agree with your reply to Ryan about protecting children. In a world of individual responsibility a person without significant life experience
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 6, 2002
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                        Eduard, I fully agree with your reply to Ryan about protecting children. In
                        a world of individual responsibility a person without significant life
                        experience might as well be blind. Bill
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:32 AM
                        Subject: RE: [existlist] non-action and will


                        > Bill,
                        >
                        > You may not be able to skate on it, but I bet there is a Loonie buried in
                        it
                        > somewhere ... :-)
                        >
                        > eduard
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:51 AM
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will
                        >
                        >
                        > Yes, incorporated in an ice/dust layer, near the surface, in the
                        southern
                        > hemisphere. Can`t skate on it however. Bill
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Eduard Alf
                        Bill et al, What do you think about going [I don t mean you personally] to Mars, now that they have found water there. I should think that we cant do it
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 6, 2002
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                          Bill et al,

                          What do you think about going [I don't mean you personally] to Mars, now
                          that they have found water there. I should think that we cant do it
                          effectively until we have a better religious/philosophical outlook.

                          eduard
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:14 PM
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will


                          Eduard, I fully agree with your reply to Ryan about protecting children.
                          In
                          a world of individual responsibility a person without significant life
                          experience might as well be blind. Bill


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bill Harris
                          Eduard, We must go, and the sooner the better. Remember several light years ago when we were talking about where the philosophical genius to create
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 7, 2002
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                            Eduard, We must go, and the sooner the better. Remember several light years
                            ago when we were talking about where the philosophical genius to create
                            existentialism came from?I think we have arrived at a point where
                            technology must capture the mass mind of humanity, divert it from outworn
                            ideology, and thrust it into a new age, powered by new energy sources and
                            having new goals. We have to fascinate people with the future and mars is a
                            good place to start. Bill
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:26 PM
                            Subject: [existlist] mars colonization


                            > Bill et al,
                            >
                            > What do you think about going [I don't mean you personally] to Mars, now
                            > that they have found water there. I should think that we cant do it
                            > effectively until we have a better religious/philosophical outlook.
                            >
                            > eduard
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                            > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:14 PM
                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will
                            >
                            >
                            > Eduard, I fully agree with your reply to Ryan about protecting children.
                            > In
                            > a world of individual responsibility a person without significant life
                            > experience might as well be blind. Bill
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                            > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                            >
                            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                            > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                          • Eduard Alf
                            Bill, absolutely. And hopefully we will arrive at that new ideology and goals. Otherwise, it will turn into something like Ray Bradbury s Martian Chronicles
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 7, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bill,

                              absolutely. And hopefully we will arrive at that new ideology and goals.
                              Otherwise, it will turn into something like Ray Bradbury's "Martian
                              Chronicles" where war breaks out on earth whilst Mars is being settled. It
                              would be a black spot on human history if we simply move from one planet to
                              another and destroy the former. Of course, if it even happened, the Martian
                              colonists would rewrite the history.

                              But the bottom line is that we must go. I am going to devote the remainder
                              of my years to developing the new [or at least participating in the
                              development] of the new ideology/philosophy/religion ... whatever.

                              eduard
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                              Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:27 AM
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [existlist] mars colonization


                              Eduard, We must go, and the sooner the better. Remember several light
                              years
                              ago when we were talking about where the philosophical genius to create
                              existentialism came from?I think we have arrived at a point where
                              technology must capture the mass mind of humanity, divert it from outworn
                              ideology, and thrust it into a new age, powered by new energy sources and
                              having new goals. We have to fascinate people with the future and mars is
                              a
                              good place to start. Bill


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bill Harris
                              Eduard, New subject. NY Times article and Nature present evidence of cross breading between the two out of Africa migrations. Homo Erectus and Neanderthal
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 7, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Eduard, New subject. NY Times article and Nature present evidence of cross
                                breading between the two out of Africa migrations. Homo Erectus and
                                Neanderthal genes still present in modern gene pools. Looks like good
                                research using ten representative gene pools. Bill
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:26 PM
                                Subject: [existlist] mars colonization


                                > Bill et al,
                                >
                                > What do you think about going [I don't mean you personally] to Mars, now
                                > that they have found water there. I should think that we cant do it
                                > effectively until we have a better religious/philosophical outlook.
                                >
                                > eduard
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 1:14 PM
                                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [existlist] non-action and will
                                >
                                >
                                > Eduard, I fully agree with your reply to Ryan about protecting children.
                                > In
                                > a world of individual responsibility a person without significant life
                                > experience might as well be blind. Bill
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                >
                                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                              • Bill Harris
                                Eduard, I think you have already done a great deal to forward a better philosophy of man ,and you deserve our thanks. Bill ... From: Eduard Alf
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 7, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Eduard, I think you have already done a great deal to forward a better
                                  philosophy of man ,and you deserve our thanks. Bill
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                  To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:58 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [existlist] mars colonization


                                  > Bill,
                                  >
                                  > absolutely. And hopefully we will arrive at that new ideology and goals.
                                  > Otherwise, it will turn into something like Ray Bradbury's "Martian
                                  > Chronicles" where war breaks out on earth whilst Mars is being settled.
                                  It
                                  > would be a black spot on human history if we simply move from one planet
                                  to
                                  > another and destroy the former. Of course, if it even happened, the
                                  Martian
                                  > colonists would rewrite the history.
                                  >
                                  > But the bottom line is that we must go. I am going to devote the
                                  remainder
                                  > of my years to developing the new [or at least participating in the
                                  > development] of the new ideology/philosophy/religion ... whatever.
                                  >
                                  > eduard
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                  > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:27 AM
                                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [existlist] mars colonization
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Eduard, We must go, and the sooner the better. Remember several light
                                  > years
                                  > ago when we were talking about where the philosophical genius to create
                                  > existentialism came from?I think we have arrived at a point where
                                  > technology must capture the mass mind of humanity, divert it from
                                  outworn
                                  > ideology, and thrust it into a new age, powered by new energy sources
                                  and
                                  > having new goals. We have to fascinate people with the future and mars
                                  is
                                  > a
                                  > good place to start. Bill
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                  > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                  >
                                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                  > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Eduard Alf
                                  Bill, a new subject and an interesting one. It really is not known what happened to the Neanderthals when Cro-Magnons entered Europe some 35,000 years ago.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 7, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Bill,

                                    a new subject and an interesting one.

                                    It really is not known what happened to the Neanderthals when Cro-Magnons
                                    entered Europe some 35,000 years ago. There may well have been mixing of
                                    the species. Although I doubt it. I also read somewhere that the
                                    Neanderthals diet was too specialized and they tended to stay in one place
                                    rather than to go roaming for food. It would not take too much of an
                                    advantage for the Cro-Magnons to win out in the survival race over several
                                    tens of thousands of years.

                                    eduard
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:28 PM
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [existlist] mars colonization


                                    Eduard, New subject. NY Times article and Nature present evidence of cross
                                    breading between the two out of Africa migrations. Homo Erectus and
                                    Neanderthal genes still present in modern gene pools. Looks like good
                                    research using ten representative gene pools. Bill


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Eduard Alf
                                    Bill, Thanks ... smanks. Is the cheque in the mail? eduard ... From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@netins.net] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:37 PM To:
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 7, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Bill,

                                      Thanks ... smanks. Is the cheque in the mail?

                                      eduard
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                      Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:37 PM
                                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [existlist] mars colonization


                                      Eduard, I think you have already done a great deal to forward a better
                                      philosophy of man ,and you deserve our thanks. Bill
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 10:58 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [existlist] mars colonization


                                      > Bill,
                                      >
                                      > absolutely. And hopefully we will arrive at that new ideology and
                                      goals.
                                      > Otherwise, it will turn into something like Ray Bradbury's "Martian
                                      > Chronicles" where war breaks out on earth whilst Mars is being settled.
                                      It
                                      > would be a black spot on human history if we simply move from one planet
                                      to
                                      > another and destroy the former. Of course, if it even happened, the
                                      Martian
                                      > colonists would rewrite the history.
                                      >
                                      > But the bottom line is that we must go. I am going to devote the
                                      remainder
                                      > of my years to developing the new [or at least participating in the
                                      > development] of the new ideology/philosophy/religion ... whatever.
                                      >
                                      > eduard
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                      > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:27 AM
                                      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [existlist] mars colonization
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Eduard, We must go, and the sooner the better. Remember several light
                                      > years
                                      > ago when we were talking about where the philosophical genius to
                                      create
                                      > existentialism came from?I think we have arrived at a point where
                                      > technology must capture the mass mind of humanity, divert it from
                                      outworn
                                      > ideology, and thrust it into a new age, powered by new energy sources
                                      and
                                      > having new goals. We have to fascinate people with the future and
                                      mars
                                      is
                                      > a
                                      > good place to start. Bill
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                      > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                      >
                                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >


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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bill Harris
                                      Eduard, This study says there was interbreeding. The out of Africa migrations, which were more numerous than believed, interbread with those Homo Erectii and
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 8, 2002
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                                        Eduard, This study says there was interbreeding. The out of Africa
                                        migrations, which were more numerous than believed, interbread with those
                                        Homo Erectii and Neanderthals with whom they had contact. The genes are
                                        mixed. Many American Indian tribes are non existant but genetically mingled,
                                        I see no difference. Bill
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:16 PM
                                        Subject: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                        > Bill,
                                        >
                                        > a new subject and an interesting one.
                                        >
                                        > It really is not known what happened to the Neanderthals when Cro-Magnons
                                        > entered Europe some 35,000 years ago. There may well have been mixing of
                                        > the species. Although I doubt it. I also read somewhere that the
                                        > Neanderthals diet was too specialized and they tended to stay in one place
                                        > rather than to go roaming for food. It would not take too much of an
                                        > advantage for the Cro-Magnons to win out in the survival race over several
                                        > tens of thousands of years.
                                        >
                                        > eduard
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                        > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:28 PM
                                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] mars colonization
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Eduard, New subject. NY Times article and Nature present evidence of
                                        cross
                                        > breading between the two out of Africa migrations. Homo Erectus and
                                        > Neanderthal genes still present in modern gene pools. Looks like good
                                        > research using ten representative gene pools. Bill
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                        >
                                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Eduard Alf
                                        Bill, After many decades of investigation and digs, my own studies in this interesting field have drawn the opposite conclusion. You can look them up in the
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 8, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Bill,

                                          After many decades of investigation and digs, my own studies in this
                                          interesting field have drawn the opposite conclusion. You can look them up
                                          in the library of congress if you don't believe me. But then, have I ever
                                          lied to you before?

                                          eduard
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                          Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:23 AM
                                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                          Eduard, This study says there was interbreeding. The out of Africa
                                          migrations, which were more numerous than believed, interbread with those
                                          Homo Erectii and Neanderthals with whom they had contact. The genes are
                                          mixed. Many American Indian tribes are non existant but genetically
                                          mingled,
                                          I see no difference. Bill


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Tom Hickcox
                                          From Explorator 4.45 Here s a new (?) spin on the Out of Africa theory: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/07/science/07ORIG.html
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 10, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            From Explorator 4.45

                                            Here's a new (?) spin on the 'Out of Africa' theory:

                                            http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/07/science/07ORIG.html
                                            http://www.msnbc.com/news/514732.asp
                                            http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/288981p-2574328c.html
                                            http://www.nature.com/nsu/020304/020304-7.html
                                            http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0306_0306_outofafrica.html
                                            http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0305_0307_neandertal.html
                                            http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=271688
                                            http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020308-75767840.htm

                                            To subscribe to Explorator, send an email to
                                            <Explorator-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>

                                            Tommy


                                            At 16:49 3/8/02, Eduard Alf wrote:
                                            >Bill,
                                            >
                                            >After many decades of investigation and digs, my own studies in this
                                            >interesting field have drawn the opposite conclusion. You can look them up
                                            >in the library of congress if you don't believe me. But then, have I ever
                                            >lied to you before?
                                            >
                                            >eduard
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                            > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:23 AM
                                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Eduard, This study says there was interbreeding. The out of Africa
                                            > migrations, which were more numerous than believed, interbread with those
                                            > Homo Erectii and Neanderthals with whom they had contact. The genes are
                                            > mixed. Many American Indian tribes are non existant but genetically
                                            >mingled,
                                            > I see no difference. Bill
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                            >(Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                            >
                                            >TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                            >existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Eduard Alf
                                            Tommy, Thanks for the information. I wonder if the Neanderthals are the fabled giants that appear in the religions of the area. eduard ... From: Tom Hickcox
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 10, 2002
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Tommy,

                                              Thanks for the information. I wonder if the Neanderthals are the fabled
                                              "giants" that appear in the religions of the area.

                                              eduard
                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Tom Hickcox [mailto:cometkazie1@...]
                                              Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:13 PM
                                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon



                                              From Explorator 4.45

                                              Here's a new (?) spin on the 'Out of Africa' theory:

                                              http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/07/science/07ORIG.html
                                              http://www.msnbc.com/news/514732.asp
                                              http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/288981p-2574328c.html
                                              http://www.nature.com/nsu/020304/020304-7.html
                                              http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0306_0306_outofafrica.html
                                              http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0305_0307_neandertal.html
                                              http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=271688
                                              http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020308-75767840.htm

                                              To subscribe to Explorator, send an email to
                                              <Explorator-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>

                                              Tommy


                                              At 16:49 3/8/02, Eduard Alf wrote:
                                              >Bill,
                                              >
                                              >After many decades of investigation and digs, my own studies in this
                                              >interesting field have drawn the opposite conclusion. You can look them
                                              up
                                              >in the library of congress if you don't believe me. But then, have I
                                              ever
                                              >lied to you before?
                                              >
                                              >eduard
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                              > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:23 AM
                                              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Eduard, This study says there was interbreeding. The out of Africa
                                              > migrations, which were more numerous than believed, interbread with
                                              those
                                              > Homo Erectii and Neanderthals with whom they had contact. The genes
                                              are
                                              > mixed. Many American Indian tribes are non existant but genetically
                                              >mingled,
                                              > I see no difference. Bill
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                              >(Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                              >
                                              >TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                              >existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Bill Harris
                                              Eduard, This is new and does not rely on the fossil record. The old bone hunters took things as far , and perhaps further than the evidence allowed. I now am
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 11, 2002
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Eduard, This is new and does not rely on the fossil record. The old bone
                                                hunters took things as far , and perhaps further than the evidence allowed.
                                                I now am more interested in where genetics stops and social conditioning is
                                                operant. Example: are southern tropical peoples less active because of their
                                                genes or because of their environment? Bill
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                                To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 4:49 PM
                                                Subject: RE: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                                > Bill,
                                                >
                                                > After many decades of investigation and digs, my own studies in this
                                                > interesting field have drawn the opposite conclusion. You can look them
                                                up
                                                > in the library of congress if you don't believe me. But then, have I ever
                                                > lied to you before?
                                                >
                                                > eduard
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                                > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:23 AM
                                                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Eduard, This study says there was interbreeding. The out of Africa
                                                > migrations, which were more numerous than believed, interbread with
                                                those
                                                > Homo Erectii and Neanderthals with whom they had contact. The genes are
                                                > mixed. Many American Indian tribes are non existant but genetically
                                                > mingled,
                                                > I see no difference. Bill
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                                > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                                >
                                                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
                                                > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                >
                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Eduard Alf
                                                Bill, my bit on my investigation was of course with tongue in cheek. But it is interesting. I think I will do some more reading. If Cro-Magnon or modern
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 11, 2002
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Bill,

                                                  my bit on my "investigation" was of course with tongue in cheek. But it is
                                                  interesting. I think I will do some more reading. If Cro-Magnon or modern
                                                  man met up with Neanderthals, then it should appear in the mythology, since
                                                  this would be before the historic record. Where were the Neanderthals when
                                                  the ancient Egyptians were around.

                                                  eduard
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                                  Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:19 PM
                                                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                                  Eduard, This is new and does not rely on the fossil record. The old bone
                                                  hunters took things as far , and perhaps further than the evidence
                                                  allowed.
                                                  I now am more interested in where genetics stops and social conditioning
                                                  is
                                                  operant. Example: are southern tropical peoples less active because of
                                                  their
                                                  genes or because of their environment? Bill


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Bill Harris
                                                  Eduard, It would seem the neanderthals were assimilated by that time. When do you consider the Egyptians to be a viable people? the last neanderthals were a
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 12, 2002
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Eduard, It would seem the neanderthals were assimilated by that time. When
                                                    do you consider the Egyptians to be a viable people? the last neanderthals
                                                    were a viable entity in the mountains of Spain~25,000 years ago. Bill
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                                    To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:54 PM
                                                    Subject: RE: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                                    > Bill,
                                                    >
                                                    > my bit on my "investigation" was of course with tongue in cheek. But it
                                                    is
                                                    > interesting. I think I will do some more reading. If Cro-Magnon or
                                                    modern
                                                    > man met up with Neanderthals, then it should appear in the mythology,
                                                    since
                                                    > this would be before the historic record. Where were the Neanderthals
                                                    when
                                                    > the ancient Egyptians were around.
                                                    >
                                                    > eduard
                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                                    > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 12:19 PM
                                                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Eduard, This is new and does not rely on the fossil record. The old bone
                                                    > hunters took things as far , and perhaps further than the evidence
                                                    > allowed.
                                                    > I now am more interested in where genetics stops and social conditioning
                                                    > is
                                                    > operant. Example: are southern tropical peoples less active because of
                                                    > their
                                                    > genes or because of their environment? Bill
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                  • Eduard Alf
                                                    Bill, I wonder. Things in that time did not happen quickly. If the Neanderthals were still around in 25,000BC, then then it would have taken almost as much
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 12, 2002
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                                                      Bill,

                                                      I wonder. Things in that time did not happen quickly. If the Neanderthals
                                                      were still around in 25,000BC, then then it would have taken almost as much
                                                      to finally disappear. But then I haven't studied it enough yet to make a
                                                      definite opinion.

                                                      My only thought is that if the Neanderthals were around for a while, at the
                                                      same time as the Cro-magnons, then perhaps this is the origin of the
                                                      "giants" in mythology and the tales in Genesis.

                                                      eduard
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:31 AM
                                                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                                      Eduard, It would seem the neanderthals were assimilated by that time. When
                                                      do you consider the Egyptians to be a viable people? the last
                                                      neanderthals
                                                      were a viable entity in the mountains of Spain~25,000 years ago. Bill


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Bill Harris
                                                      Eduard, As a Celtic decendant I now have greater appreciation for the invention of writing. Our verbal traditions are so garbled over time. About all they are
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Mar 13, 2002
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                                                        Eduard, As a Celtic decendant I now have greater appreciation for the
                                                        invention of writing. Our verbal traditions are so garbled over time. About
                                                        all they are good for is to see the slow evolution of mens minds. Who knows
                                                        what sent those early dreamers into fits of poetic rapture. Probably a good
                                                        batch of mead. We tried to explore pre germanic celtic roots when we were in
                                                        Austria. Found little or nothing. I would think your idea about giants could
                                                        be valid, but proof would be very difficult. Bill
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "Eduard Alf" <yeoman@...>
                                                        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:25 PM
                                                        Subject: RE: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon


                                                        > Bill,
                                                        >
                                                        > I wonder. Things in that time did not happen quickly. If the
                                                        Neanderthals
                                                        > were still around in 25,000BC, then then it would have taken almost as
                                                        much
                                                        > to finally disappear. But then I haven't studied it enough yet to make a
                                                        > definite opinion.
                                                        >
                                                        > My only thought is that if the Neanderthals were around for a while, at
                                                        the
                                                        > same time as the Cro-magnons, then perhaps this is the origin of the
                                                        > "giants" in mythology and the tales in Genesis.
                                                        >
                                                        > eduard
                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                        > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:31 AM
                                                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: Re: [existlist] Neanderthal, Cro-Magnon
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Eduard, It would seem the neanderthals were assimilated by that time.
                                                        When
                                                        > do you consider the Egyptians to be a viable people? the last
                                                        > neanderthals
                                                        > were a viable entity in the mountains of Spain~25,000 years ago. Bill
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
                                                        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
                                                        >
                                                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
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