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Re: [existlist] Success Spell

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  • Bill Harris
    Yulian, You need a vacation with Project 7 in flathead county Mont. Bill ... From: Yulian K. Gaard To:
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 1, 2002
      Yulian, You need a vacation with Project 7 in flathead county Mont. Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Yulian K. Gaard" <ccc61261@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:48 AM
      Subject: Sv: [existlist] Success Spell

      > Dear All, Dear James and Joel,
      > James wrote;
      > "[...] green and blue candle, and some rites, and then u have a influence
      on success. . any experiments and research to demonstrate that such
      manipulation will have a effect on reality? [...]"
      > I didnt plan on giving you any scientific proofs, but I will give you just
      one thing to look into, though it covers very little; "Fake Pills" Beliefs
      and Faith is a key.
      > Now, I wish for you to go the other way - proove me wrong, that there is
      no holistic connection in the multiverse. That your mind and beliefs have no
      effects on what happens in the world. And no, I wont take that you've walked
      back and forth between candles till your head turned blue for a proof - you
      got exactly what you expected and had your mind filled with while doing
      that, and that was not the focus of your entire mind upon sucess and the
      belief that you'd archieve it.
      > Joel wrote;
      > "Fall for it and you fall for the trappings, which, of course, are for
      sale. And guess who's selling."
      > Please look at the open letter to RavenWolf. There you have your perfect
      example of someone exploiting religion. As for it being a cult; you can
      probably find alot of cults who practice some of the same techniques.
      > Blessings
      > Yulian
      > Ps. Silver RavenWolf is a famous pagan Author, one of those who about half
      call an expert and wonderful, the rest call her watering down and
      > An Open Letter to Silver Ravenwolf
      > It's never easy to walk my spiritual path out in the real world; in fact
      it can be downright hazardous at times. A girl can step in a lot of dung
      while out walking, making boots necessary footwear these days. What never
      ceases to amaze me are the cow patties left in the middle of the road by
      other Pagans.
      > The latest road hazard comes from a well known Pagan writer with at least
      14 published books to her credit, an elder in her tradition and someone who
      should know better. Silver RavenWolf has announced plans to market what she
      is calling a "Teen Witch Kit"
      > I have a lot of gripes with this, some of which come under personal
      standards and therefore won't be explored in depth here. Like the fact that
      every teenage girl in America is not wearing belly shirts like all of
      Silver's teen girl representatives appear to be. Even so, since I refuse to
      apply for membership to the fashion police we shall move on to the bigger
      issues here.
      > Let's begin by stating my own standards on certain things. I do not expect
      everyone to agree with my standards, but I do want to be clear before going
      further. I do not endorse the teaching of minors without full parental
      knowledge and consent, which consent may be withdrawn by those parents at
      any time. My reasons are more fully explained in my Minors and Paganism
      Editorial but to reiterate succinctly, it comes down to respect. I have this
      little thing about respecting the rights of other parents, especially as I
      insist my parental rights be respected. Notice that two-way street thing
      going on, a little "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" philosophy if
      you will. The freedom to raise my children Pagan is very precious to me, a
      right won by those who have gone before me. It becomes a matter of honor to
      defend that right for other parents of other faiths, including those who
      hold a dim view of me and mine.
      > Silver, your work has been taking a disturbing turn lately, edging more
      and more towards targeting minors. The "Teen Witch Kit" cannot possibly be
      categorized as anything but a blatant sellout, not only of the Pagan
      community but also of your own spirituality. Let's be honest here, your
      target market group does not consist of Pagan teenagers. Children raised
      Pagan aren't the least bit tempted by this latest offering. Their parents
      give them all the tools they think they can handle at the proper time. This
      is an important point you know. You are selling blind, never knowing if the
      kid who buys your kit is truly ready to utilize magick in a proper and
      responsible way. Any kid with babysitting money and a ride down to the local
      bookstore can get their hands on this. If you believe that magick works, and
      I'm going to assume that you do, how do you justify handing the magickal
      equivalent of a loaded gun to a 13 year old when you have no idea if they
      have had the experience and maturity to handle it properly? I have a 13 year
      old daughter and I showed her your press release and slick promo ad. She
      knows you are a Witch who has published 14 books, and read your bio. This is
      what she said in response to the question, "Do you think this is ok for the
      kids in your grade at your school?"
      > "If you give this to the kids I go to school with, there will be a few
      mature ones who could learn to understand the responsibility involved, but
      most kids will abuse it. I can see kids using this to their own advantage,
      without any consideration or respect for other kids. I see a lot of
      irresponsibility and disrespect in my peers, in homework, friendships and
      their attitude to teachers and other grownups." Upon further pondering she
      added, "A lot of them wouldn't understand it because they don't have any
      background or information about magick or Paganism. About half the kids
      would be willing to try it anyway and if it did work they would abuse it to
      the point that basically everyone around them would be under some kind of
      spell, and a lot of it wouldn't be nice." I asked her what percentage she
      felt might be responsible with something like this; she felt an honest
      assessment was around 2%. She also pointed out that the kit shouldn't have
      the word "Witch" on the cover since it really was about magick and had
      nothing to do with religion.
      > Her last point happens to be a very good one. Nothing in the kit bears any
      resemblance to anything spiritual. It is a toolbox designed to get a kid
      whatever he or she wants, and assumes that any child that this slick
      marketing plan reaches will be able to handle the responsibility and
      temptation to go further then they should. Had you titled it the "Teen
      Magician Kit" perhaps it would more accurately reflect the contents. The
      word Witch denotes a spiritual path that may or may not include the use of
      magick. However, as is often said by those who term themselves Witches, the
      use of magick does not make one a Witch.
      > Another aspect of all this, and probably what has so many people I know up
      in arms, is your attitude towards all of this. I took a short cruise by your
      website Silver, (www.silverravenwolf.com) Under new releases, down at the
      bottom of one page, I found the following:
      > "Call 1-800-THE MOON to place your order, or bug, bother and pester your
      neighborhood book store till they can't stand it anymore. Oh, and for the
      adults that don't like this statement? Maybe you don't care about their
      future, but I do."
      > You take an awful lot upon yourself Silver RavenWolf. First you urge kids
      to make pests of themselves in pursuit of your products, and then you state
      outright that anyone who disagrees with the "Be a brat to get what you want"
      approach just doesn't care about kids. Is this the "New Generation of
      Witches" you plan on bringing along? Are you really encouraging kids to
      harass storeowners in pursuit of your products? If you are saying it's ok to
      harass storeowners, why isn't it ok to cast a spell to have the storeowner
      give that product to a kid for free? I have to ask these questions, Silver,
      because your words and actions make drawing distinctions very difficult for
      those of us with a clear moral code and the knowledge of how to interact
      with others. I would have very little sympathy for any adult who pitched a
      fit in a bookstore simply because your product wasn't instantly available
      for them to purchase. I see no reason to hold a teenager to a different
      standard. After all, I respect teens and believe they are capable of waiting
      for what they want, and earning it.
      > You are not exempt from answering for your words and actions Silver. What
      you do with just that one line, backed up by your "Teen Witch Kit" is to
      literally hand wood to those who oppose Pagan spiritual paths and help them
      strike a match to light the fire. Are you so blinded by profits that you
      fail to see the reaction of Christian parents reading that one line?
      > As if that were not enough, you go on to make a preemptive strike against
      anyone who might disagree with your actions here. The fact that you posted
      those words leads me to believe that at some level you were fully aware of
      what the reaction of the Pagan community would be to this particular
      product. Your decision to go ahead in spite of your own inner voice leads me
      to wonder if the Goddess herself has to tap you on the shoulder to get you
      to listen to the discord you've sown in the Pagan community with all this.
      > What insight that you alone appear to possess makes you think you have the
      right to make such sweeping assumptions about adults who read your words and
      choose to disagree with you? I don't like your statement Silver, but don't
      you dare assume or believe that means I don't care about kids. I do care. I
      care enough to say no to a kid, and that is the hardest thing for a caring
      adult to do. I care enough to be honest with them and tell them that working
      spells and magick is not how one solves problems. I care enough to point out
      that at 13 years old they might not quite be ready to find the one true love
      of their life. Just a small request from me, in the future feel free to
      exclude me from these sweeping generalizations about others that you believe
      are yours to make. Please be sure to list me by name and affiliation.
      > This website is a business, in addition to hosting free access message
      boards. We sell tools and accompaniments, some of which are indeed items
      that can be used in magick and ritual. We do not sell tools to those under
      the age of 18. You see Silver, here at Triplemoon, we do believe in magick,
      although unlike some we are able to draw a distinction between our
      spirituality and the business we run. Despite our obvious interest in making
      a living, we have always prominently and publicly stated that nothing of
      what we sell is necessary to ritual, working magick or connecting with the
      > In fact, you'll find many items of interest in our online catalog. The
      range is, we think, wide and varied, and includes many items that really
      have little to do with Paganism, but have been requested repeatedly over the
      years by visitors to the point where we now stock them. One thing that won't
      be found here anymore are your products Silver. This was not an easy
      business decision to make. I won't argue with anyone that your products
      sell, and from a business standpoint it was a poor decision. But from a
      moral standpoint, it's a very comfortable one to live with. Not every
      product you market is morally objectionable, and there is a valid
      consideration from a business view of keeping those items that aren't. But
      this isn't solely about the Teen Witch Kit. It's also about what appears to
      us to be your goal of targeting teens, especially those of other faiths.
      It's about how Pagans would feel if a prominent Christian writer targeted
      our children to teach them things that we might find objectionable. It's
      about you telling teens it's ok to do whatever it takes to get whatever they
      want. It's about giving back the respect to others that we keep demanding
      for ourselves.
      > You live by the law of returns, by your own choice. If you feel negativity
      swirling about you, it is only what you have stirred up. The wind blowing
      cold through your door is the lack of warmth and connection to community
      that was lost somewhere in your ambitions. As you shut your heart and mind
      to the cries rising around you from the Pagan community, when so many of
      your peers believe you are making a mistake, your flat out refusal to even
      consider their point of view does not speak well to one who would claim the
      sacred mantle of spiritual teacher. A teacher leads by example and the best
      ones listen much more then they speak.
      > Are you listening Silver?
      > Respectfully submitted.
      > " Magic is a way of life. "
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Bill Harris
      Yulian, It is a right wing malitia in Montana. They would be a real trip for you. Probably as far from your mind set as possible. They wish to take over the
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 4, 2002
        Yulian, It is a right wing malitia in Montana. They would be a real trip for
        you. Probably as far from your mind set as possible. They wish to take over
        the government and are busy killing law inforcement people and threatning
        their familys. They have a fanatical hatred of authority. especially the
        federal government. Groups like this are always in the shadows in the US. Do
        you have such people in your country? BillOriginal Message -----
        From: "Yulian K. Gaard" <ccc61261@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:47 PM
        Subject: Sv: [existlist] Success Spell

        > Dear Bill, Dear All ...
        > Bill Wrote;
        > "Yulian, You need a vacation with Project 7 in flathead county Mont. Bill"
        > I'll need to ask, what is that ?? A vacation would be great, especially if
        it'd be a vacation that could help me find financial aid to study in the
        > Blessings
        > Yulian
        > Respectfully submitted.
        > " Magic is a way of life. "
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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