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Re: [existlist] Success Spell

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  • Bill Harris
    James, you little scientist you. Bill ... From: james tan To: Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:16 PM
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 1, 2002
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      James, you little scientist you. Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "james tan" <tyjfk@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:16 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Success Spell


      >
      > gee with due respect, but i am not just into such kind of thing, i mean
      > green and blue candle, and some rites, and then u have a influence on
      > success. any experiments and research to demonstrate that such
      manipulation
      > will have a effect on reality? any correlation or causal studies? any
      > statistical data to support such claims on magic. in the popperian sense,
      > can any claim of the magic be able to lend itself to be falsified or
      > verified? it is fun to do it for the kick, but to say it positively has an
      > effect on reality doesn't sound scientific.
      >
      > james.
      >
      >
      > From: "Yulian K. Gaard" <ccc61261@...>
      > Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [existlist] Success Spell
      > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:34:56 +0100
      >
      >
      > Ah, well ... Directly from my spellbook, lets see what you people here can
      > make of it and of the workings of magic.
      >
      > Blessings
      > Yulian
      >
      > Ps. Yes I'm still alive, will soon be done with my first degree and
      > currently working on the finishing rites.
      >
      >
      > Success Spell
      >
      > You will need:
      >
      > A green candle
      > A purple candle
      > A talisman with your religious symbol (pentacle, cross, star of David,
      etc)
      >
      > Place a green candle on one side of a room. Place a purple candle on the
      > other side. Now, light the purple candle. (The lights should now be off or
      > very dim.) With your religious talisman hanging from a chain or string (to
      > be worn as a necklace) dangling from your right hand, pick up the purple
      > (lit) candle with your right hand. Now walk in a STRAIGHT line across the
      > room directly to the green candle. Using the purple one, light the green
      > candle. Set down the candle so they sit next to each other. Chant,
      >
      > "I walk forth without doubt and fear, And success draws me near."
      >
      > Lay the necklace in front of it and meditate for awhile on the success you
      > need. Let the candles burn
      > themselves down, and wear the necklace whenever you wish success you
      follow
      > you. When you walk through a door to job interviews, auditions, or
      anywhere
      > you need success, imagine how you walked in a straight line in your
      ritual,
      > and consciously make an effort to do the same when passing through the
      door.
      >
      >
      >
      > Respectfully submitted.
      >
      >
      > " Magic is a way of life. "
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
    • Bill Harris
      Yulian, You need a vacation with Project 7 in flathead county Mont. Bill ... From: Yulian K. Gaard To:
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 1, 2002
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        Yulian, You need a vacation with Project 7 in flathead county Mont. Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Yulian K. Gaard" <ccc61261@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:48 AM
        Subject: Sv: [existlist] Success Spell


        >
        >
        > Dear All, Dear James and Joel,
        >
        > James wrote;
        > "[...] green and blue candle, and some rites, and then u have a influence
        on success. . any experiments and research to demonstrate that such
        manipulation will have a effect on reality? [...]"
        >
        > I didnt plan on giving you any scientific proofs, but I will give you just
        one thing to look into, though it covers very little; "Fake Pills" Beliefs
        and Faith is a key.
        >
        > Now, I wish for you to go the other way - proove me wrong, that there is
        no holistic connection in the multiverse. That your mind and beliefs have no
        effects on what happens in the world. And no, I wont take that you've walked
        back and forth between candles till your head turned blue for a proof - you
        got exactly what you expected and had your mind filled with while doing
        that, and that was not the focus of your entire mind upon sucess and the
        belief that you'd archieve it.
        >
        > Joel wrote;
        > "Fall for it and you fall for the trappings, which, of course, are for
        sale. And guess who's selling."
        >
        > Please look at the open letter to RavenWolf. There you have your perfect
        example of someone exploiting religion. As for it being a cult; you can
        probably find alot of cults who practice some of the same techniques.
        >
        > Blessings
        > Yulian
        >
        > Ps. Silver RavenWolf is a famous pagan Author, one of those who about half
        call an expert and wonderful, the rest call her watering down and
        exploiting.
        >
        >
        > An Open Letter to Silver Ravenwolf
        > It's never easy to walk my spiritual path out in the real world; in fact
        it can be downright hazardous at times. A girl can step in a lot of dung
        while out walking, making boots necessary footwear these days. What never
        ceases to amaze me are the cow patties left in the middle of the road by
        other Pagans.
        >
        > The latest road hazard comes from a well known Pagan writer with at least
        14 published books to her credit, an elder in her tradition and someone who
        should know better. Silver RavenWolf has announced plans to market what she
        is calling a "Teen Witch Kit"
        >
        > I have a lot of gripes with this, some of which come under personal
        standards and therefore won't be explored in depth here. Like the fact that
        every teenage girl in America is not wearing belly shirts like all of
        Silver's teen girl representatives appear to be. Even so, since I refuse to
        apply for membership to the fashion police we shall move on to the bigger
        issues here.
        >
        > Let's begin by stating my own standards on certain things. I do not expect
        everyone to agree with my standards, but I do want to be clear before going
        further. I do not endorse the teaching of minors without full parental
        knowledge and consent, which consent may be withdrawn by those parents at
        any time. My reasons are more fully explained in my Minors and Paganism
        Editorial but to reiterate succinctly, it comes down to respect. I have this
        little thing about respecting the rights of other parents, especially as I
        insist my parental rights be respected. Notice that two-way street thing
        going on, a little "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" philosophy if
        you will. The freedom to raise my children Pagan is very precious to me, a
        right won by those who have gone before me. It becomes a matter of honor to
        defend that right for other parents of other faiths, including those who
        hold a dim view of me and mine.
        >
        > Silver, your work has been taking a disturbing turn lately, edging more
        and more towards targeting minors. The "Teen Witch Kit" cannot possibly be
        categorized as anything but a blatant sellout, not only of the Pagan
        community but also of your own spirituality. Let's be honest here, your
        target market group does not consist of Pagan teenagers. Children raised
        Pagan aren't the least bit tempted by this latest offering. Their parents
        give them all the tools they think they can handle at the proper time. This
        is an important point you know. You are selling blind, never knowing if the
        kid who buys your kit is truly ready to utilize magick in a proper and
        responsible way. Any kid with babysitting money and a ride down to the local
        bookstore can get their hands on this. If you believe that magick works, and
        I'm going to assume that you do, how do you justify handing the magickal
        equivalent of a loaded gun to a 13 year old when you have no idea if they
        have had the experience and maturity to handle it properly? I have a 13 year
        old daughter and I showed her your press release and slick promo ad. She
        knows you are a Witch who has published 14 books, and read your bio. This is
        what she said in response to the question, "Do you think this is ok for the
        kids in your grade at your school?"
        >
        > "If you give this to the kids I go to school with, there will be a few
        mature ones who could learn to understand the responsibility involved, but
        most kids will abuse it. I can see kids using this to their own advantage,
        without any consideration or respect for other kids. I see a lot of
        irresponsibility and disrespect in my peers, in homework, friendships and
        their attitude to teachers and other grownups." Upon further pondering she
        added, "A lot of them wouldn't understand it because they don't have any
        background or information about magick or Paganism. About half the kids
        would be willing to try it anyway and if it did work they would abuse it to
        the point that basically everyone around them would be under some kind of
        spell, and a lot of it wouldn't be nice." I asked her what percentage she
        felt might be responsible with something like this; she felt an honest
        assessment was around 2%. She also pointed out that the kit shouldn't have
        the word "Witch" on the cover since it really was about magick and had
        nothing to do with religion.
        >
        > Her last point happens to be a very good one. Nothing in the kit bears any
        resemblance to anything spiritual. It is a toolbox designed to get a kid
        whatever he or she wants, and assumes that any child that this slick
        marketing plan reaches will be able to handle the responsibility and
        temptation to go further then they should. Had you titled it the "Teen
        Magician Kit" perhaps it would more accurately reflect the contents. The
        word Witch denotes a spiritual path that may or may not include the use of
        magick. However, as is often said by those who term themselves Witches, the
        use of magick does not make one a Witch.
        >
        > Another aspect of all this, and probably what has so many people I know up
        in arms, is your attitude towards all of this. I took a short cruise by your
        website Silver, (www.silverravenwolf.com) Under new releases, down at the
        bottom of one page, I found the following:
        >
        > "Call 1-800-THE MOON to place your order, or bug, bother and pester your
        neighborhood book store till they can't stand it anymore. Oh, and for the
        adults that don't like this statement? Maybe you don't care about their
        future, but I do."
        >
        > You take an awful lot upon yourself Silver RavenWolf. First you urge kids
        to make pests of themselves in pursuit of your products, and then you state
        outright that anyone who disagrees with the "Be a brat to get what you want"
        approach just doesn't care about kids. Is this the "New Generation of
        Witches" you plan on bringing along? Are you really encouraging kids to
        harass storeowners in pursuit of your products? If you are saying it's ok to
        harass storeowners, why isn't it ok to cast a spell to have the storeowner
        give that product to a kid for free? I have to ask these questions, Silver,
        because your words and actions make drawing distinctions very difficult for
        those of us with a clear moral code and the knowledge of how to interact
        with others. I would have very little sympathy for any adult who pitched a
        fit in a bookstore simply because your product wasn't instantly available
        for them to purchase. I see no reason to hold a teenager to a different
        standard. After all, I respect teens and believe they are capable of waiting
        for what they want, and earning it.
        >
        > You are not exempt from answering for your words and actions Silver. What
        you do with just that one line, backed up by your "Teen Witch Kit" is to
        literally hand wood to those who oppose Pagan spiritual paths and help them
        strike a match to light the fire. Are you so blinded by profits that you
        fail to see the reaction of Christian parents reading that one line?
        >
        > As if that were not enough, you go on to make a preemptive strike against
        anyone who might disagree with your actions here. The fact that you posted
        those words leads me to believe that at some level you were fully aware of
        what the reaction of the Pagan community would be to this particular
        product. Your decision to go ahead in spite of your own inner voice leads me
        to wonder if the Goddess herself has to tap you on the shoulder to get you
        to listen to the discord you've sown in the Pagan community with all this.
        >
        > What insight that you alone appear to possess makes you think you have the
        right to make such sweeping assumptions about adults who read your words and
        choose to disagree with you? I don't like your statement Silver, but don't
        you dare assume or believe that means I don't care about kids. I do care. I
        care enough to say no to a kid, and that is the hardest thing for a caring
        adult to do. I care enough to be honest with them and tell them that working
        spells and magick is not how one solves problems. I care enough to point out
        that at 13 years old they might not quite be ready to find the one true love
        of their life. Just a small request from me, in the future feel free to
        exclude me from these sweeping generalizations about others that you believe
        are yours to make. Please be sure to list me by name and affiliation.
        >
        > This website is a business, in addition to hosting free access message
        boards. We sell tools and accompaniments, some of which are indeed items
        that can be used in magick and ritual. We do not sell tools to those under
        the age of 18. You see Silver, here at Triplemoon, we do believe in magick,
        although unlike some we are able to draw a distinction between our
        spirituality and the business we run. Despite our obvious interest in making
        a living, we have always prominently and publicly stated that nothing of
        what we sell is necessary to ritual, working magick or connecting with the
        divine.
        >
        > In fact, you'll find many items of interest in our online catalog. The
        range is, we think, wide and varied, and includes many items that really
        have little to do with Paganism, but have been requested repeatedly over the
        years by visitors to the point where we now stock them. One thing that won't
        be found here anymore are your products Silver. This was not an easy
        business decision to make. I won't argue with anyone that your products
        sell, and from a business standpoint it was a poor decision. But from a
        moral standpoint, it's a very comfortable one to live with. Not every
        product you market is morally objectionable, and there is a valid
        consideration from a business view of keeping those items that aren't. But
        this isn't solely about the Teen Witch Kit. It's also about what appears to
        us to be your goal of targeting teens, especially those of other faiths.
        It's about how Pagans would feel if a prominent Christian writer targeted
        our children to teach them things that we might find objectionable. It's
        about you telling teens it's ok to do whatever it takes to get whatever they
        want. It's about giving back the respect to others that we keep demanding
        for ourselves.
        >
        > You live by the law of returns, by your own choice. If you feel negativity
        swirling about you, it is only what you have stirred up. The wind blowing
        cold through your door is the lack of warmth and connection to community
        that was lost somewhere in your ambitions. As you shut your heart and mind
        to the cries rising around you from the Pagan community, when so many of
        your peers believe you are making a mistake, your flat out refusal to even
        consider their point of view does not speak well to one who would claim the
        sacred mantle of spiritual teacher. A teacher leads by example and the best
        ones listen much more then they speak.
        >
        > Are you listening Silver?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Respectfully submitted.
        >
        >
        > " Magic is a way of life. "
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Bill Harris
        Yulian, It is a right wing malitia in Montana. They would be a real trip for you. Probably as far from your mind set as possible. They wish to take over the
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 4, 2002
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          Yulian, It is a right wing malitia in Montana. They would be a real trip for
          you. Probably as far from your mind set as possible. They wish to take over
          the government and are busy killing law inforcement people and threatning
          their familys. They have a fanatical hatred of authority. especially the
          federal government. Groups like this are always in the shadows in the US. Do
          you have such people in your country? BillOriginal Message -----
          From: "Yulian K. Gaard" <ccc61261@...>
          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:47 PM
          Subject: Sv: [existlist] Success Spell


          >
          > Dear Bill, Dear All ...
          >
          > Bill Wrote;
          > "Yulian, You need a vacation with Project 7 in flathead county Mont. Bill"
          >
          > I'll need to ask, what is that ?? A vacation would be great, especially if
          it'd be a vacation that could help me find financial aid to study in the
          USA.
          >
          > Blessings
          > Yulian
          >
          >
          > Respectfully submitted.
          >
          >
          > " Magic is a way of life. "
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
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