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Sartre

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  • james tan
    ... himself. You would admit with me that there is something illogical or unauthentic.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 24, 2002
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      >>>Because he was raised in bourgeoisie and admits to be a bourgeois
      himself.
      You would admit with me that there is something illogical or
      unauthentic.<<<


      not necessarily. just because he is borned in bourgeouis environment does
      not mean he could not rebel against it. what is freedom? to be authentic is
      not necessarily to be subscribed to the values of the culture u are borned
      in. and what is so illogical about it? camus himself rebelled.

      james.



      From: Philippe <isabelle.chapleau@...>
      Reply-To: CamusDiscussionList@yahoogroups.com
      To: CamusDiscussionList@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [CamusDiscussionList] Sartre
      Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:46:28 -0500

      My reflections were deliberately oversimplified .Sometimes you have to
      do that
      in order to prompt some reaction and discussion.In the old list , some
      people will remember, a member regularly did that.
      It appears to me nevertheless that Sartre's hate against bourgeoisie is
      suspect.
      Because he was raised in bourgeoisie and admits to be a bourgeois
      himself.
      You would admit with me that there is something illogical or
      unauthentic.

      In comparison, Camus revolt is inspired by his desire of justice , a
      desire
      that comes in part from his modest origins.

      Philippe

      Sorry if I have offended this morning some Bush's admirers...Good Lord,
      we may
      still have 7 years to be obliged to deal with them...









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    • Tom Walsh
      Brian, Thanks for clearing this with me. It s been a long time since I ve talked about Sartre. I m a little rusty. When you read The Flies let me know what
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 5, 2002
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        Brian, Thanks for clearing this with me. It's been a long time since I"ve talked about Sartre. I'm a little rusty. When you read "The Flies" let me know what you think about the ending. I like your statement "freedom is used to get to happiness." So, there's another step after the "nausea" of sole existence, and the acceptance of freedom: happiness. I like it. What is your background? I was an English major turned programmer. Tom
        ----- Original Message -----


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • SKIBO79
        Well I wouldnt praise me too much. Ive only read Being And Nothingness once. I just read No Exit a few weeks ago. I also read Being And Time by Heidegger.
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 5, 2002
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          Well I wouldnt praise me too much. Ive only read Being And
          Nothingness once. I just read "No Exit" a few weeks ago. I also
          read Being And Time by Heidegger. Ive read some texts in Western
          Philosophy including Descartes, Leibenez, Spinoza, Berkeley, Locke,
          Hume, and Kant. Buddhist and Hindu thought. American philosophy
          with Emerson and Thoreau, which is what I think alot of people on
          here speak of. Nietzche, Keirkegaard, Hegel also. I havent done
          extensive reading in it. I read what I had to and gave my own ideas
          on them. Ive also studied linguistics and how we acquire language,
          which I totally disagree with (Chomsky that is.) My degree was in
          English and a minor in philosophy. I felt that there was no matter
          into majoring in philosophy since it would be alot of classes that I
          didnt want. I ended my college career last year, and wrote an
          independent study against Heidegger's and Sartre's view on time. I
          showed how all time is solipsistic. I could send it to u if u like.

          Brian

          --- In existlist@y..., Tom Walsh <tom.walsh1@c...> wrote:
          > Brian, Thanks for clearing this with me. It's been a long time
          since I"ve talked about Sartre. I'm a little rusty. When you
          read "The Flies" let me know what you think about the ending. I like
          your statement "freedom is used to get to happiness." So, there's
          another step after the "nausea" of sole existence, and the
          acceptance of freedom: happiness. I like it. What is your
          background? I was an English major turned programmer. Tom
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom Walsh
          Brian, Thanks for the list of your inspirations. I m very impressed with your exposure, especially Sartre and Heidegger. Doesn t Sartre quote him often in
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 6, 2002
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            Brian, Thanks for the list of your inspirations. I'm very impressed with your exposure, especially Sartre and Heidegger. Doesn't Sartre quote him often in "Being and Nothingness"?? I read B&N waaaay back in 1969 (I was a hippie antiwar college freshman then.) I worked through "No Exit" "The Flies" "Nausea" "The Roads to Freedom" "The Words" and several bios of Sartre and DeBeauvoir. I flew into Beckett, then Ionesco, Kant, the Transcendentalists (I noticed we have many authors in common.) Existentialism, and its concepts threw my mind into a dichotomy and soon into burnout. I was headed for Theology and the seminary. But, because of other things, I decided to go into Lit. ANYway, I still enjoy Kierkegaard and Milton, and Faulkner and Tolstoy. I would be honored to read your paper. It would serve as refresher, too. This mind's not "been there" for awhile. I've been buried in family and programming and just living day-to-day.

            I saw an existential list, and jumped right in. I want to re-learn what I started. Between you and Eduard (I like "Nooism!"), I have already been thrown into serious deep thought. Thanks for the challenges! Keep it coming, brothers....Tom









            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eduard
            Tom, Stay tuned ... I will eventually get the site updated. In the meantime look up memetics at: http://maxwell.lucifer.com/virus/alt.memetics/ Memes
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 6, 2002
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              Tom,

              Stay tuned ... I will eventually get the site
              updated.

              In the meantime look up memetics at:
              http://maxwell.lucifer.com/virus/alt.memetics/

              Memes [pronounced meem] are viruses of the mind.
              They are like mental scripts, but are somewhat
              more complex and can be transferred from one
              person to another ...

              eduard


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Tom Walsh [mailto:tom.walsh1@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:24 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Sartre


              Brian, Thanks for the list of your inspirations.
              I'm very impressed with your exposure, especially
              Sartre and Heidegger. Doesn't Sartre quote him
              often in "Being and Nothingness"?? I read B&N
              waaaay back in 1969 (I was a hippie antiwar
              college freshman then.) I worked through "No Exit"
              "The Flies" "Nausea" "The Roads to Freedom" "The
              Words" and several bios of Sartre and DeBeauvoir.
              I flew into Beckett, then Ionesco, Kant, the
              Transcendentalists (I noticed we have many authors
              in common.) Existentialism, and its concepts threw
              my mind into a dichotomy and soon into burnout. I
              was headed for Theology and the seminary. But,
              because of other things, I decided to go into Lit.
              ANYway, I still enjoy Kierkegaard and Milton, and
              Faulkner and Tolstoy. I would be honored to read
              your paper. It would serve as refresher, too. This
              mind's not "been there" for awhile. I've been
              buried in family and programming and just living
              day-to-day.

              I saw an existential list, and jumped right in. I
              want to re-learn what I started. Between you and
              Eduard (I like "Nooism!"), I have already been
              thrown into serious deep thought. Thanks for the
              challenges! Keep it coming, brothers....Tom









              [Non-text portions of this message have been
              removed]


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            • C. S. Wyatt
              I am now on the Sartre page for a few days... One of the books lists the Four Stages of Sartre. They are: 1. Solipsistic despair. 1923-1937 2. Negative
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 30, 2003
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                I am now on the Sartre page for a few days...

                One of the books lists the "Four Stages" of Sartre. They are:

                1. Solipsistic despair. 1923-1937

                2. Negative resistance. 1943-1945

                3. Optimistic humanism. 1946-1952

                4. Marxism. 1960-

                Any thought on this?
              • eduard at home
                Chris, I don t have comment on Sartre, but the list makes me wonder what negative resistance is. In any case, whilst checking out Sartre s year of death, I
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 31, 2003
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                  Chris,

                  I don't have comment on Sartre, but the list makes me wonder
                  what "negative resistance" is. In any case, whilst checking
                  out Sartre's year of death, I came across an interesting
                  site:
                  http://www.geocities.com/sartresite/

                  eduard

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "C. S. Wyatt" <existlist1@...>
                  To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:35 AM
                  Subject: [existlist] Sartre


                  > I am now on the Sartre page for a few days...
                  >
                  > One of the books lists the "Four Stages" of Sartre. They
                  are:
                  >
                  > 1. Solipsistic despair. 1923-1937
                  >
                  > 2. Negative resistance. 1943-1945
                  >
                  > 3. Optimistic humanism. 1946-1952
                  >
                  > 4. Marxism. 1960-
                  >
                  > Any thought on this?
                  >
                  >
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                • npepper1
                  I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 15, 2004
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                    I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available
                    What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you
                  • louise
                    There are many people here who don t usually post. I don t know if anyone can help. Myself, I never took to Sartre, and don t recall much of what I read
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 16, 2004
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                      There are many people here who don't usually post. I don't know if
                      anyone can help. Myself, I never took to Sartre, and don't recall
                      much of what I read rather dutifully twenty years ago and more.
                      Sartre like any philosopher does though take many forms, and becomes
                      more sympathique if you're in company with those who have genuinely
                      loved him and his work.
                      You could try visiting at:

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sartre/

                      My links sometimes have a history of failing, but I'm sure you'll
                      get there, whatever.

                      All good wishes,
                      Louise


                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "npepper1" <npepper1@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available
                      > What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you
                    • Allain Barnett
                      I am reading Being and Nothingness right now, and I have the same confusions as you are. From what I gather from my reading of it so far which comes with
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 16, 2004
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                        I am reading Being and Nothingness right now, and I have the same confusions
                        as you are. From what I gather from my reading of it so far which comes with
                        limited understanding of his convoluted writing, is that nothingness is just
                        basically non-being. Now nihilation and negation get really confusing for
                        me, but negation he usually takes to mean anything we do that makes one
                        portion of being stand out from another, or a negative statement. So like
                        to say this is a chair is to say that this is not that other chair, or this
                        is not a book, it is a chair. So even when we are talking about a thing
                        affirmatively we are negating something or nihilating something. I'm
                        interested to hear other interpretations, as i find it can be confusing at
                        times as well.



                        >From: "npepper1" <npepper1@...>
                        >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [existlist] Sartre
                        >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:36:56 -0000
                        >
                        >
                        >I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available
                        >What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • dian mills
                        Thank you Allain and Louise for replying. Thanks for the explanation Allain. It helps. I was doing a class for a semester but it ends this week and believe me
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 16, 2004
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                          Thank you Allain and Louise for replying. Thanks for the explanation Allain. It helps. I was doing a class for a semester but it ends this week and believe me I couldn't wait for the day. I found it so difficult. I didn't know what I was getting into. There should be a lexicon to get through all those terms that Sartre uses.

                          Allain Barnett <biawak_gila@...> wrote:
                          I am reading Being and Nothingness right now, and I have the same confusions
                          as you are. From what I gather from my reading of it so far which comes with
                          limited understanding of his convoluted writing, is that nothingness is just
                          basically non-being. Now nihilation and negation get really confusing for
                          me, but negation he usually takes to mean anything we do that makes one
                          portion of being stand out from another, or a negative statement. So like
                          to say this is a chair is to say that this is not that other chair, or this
                          is not a book, it is a chair. So even when we are talking about a thing
                          affirmatively we are negating something or nihilating something. I'm
                          interested to hear other interpretations, as i find it can be confusing at
                          times as well.



                          >From: "npepper1" <npepper1@...>
                          >Reply-To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [existlist] Sartre
                          >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:36:56 -0000
                          >
                          >
                          >I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available
                          >What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you
                          >
                          >
                          >




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                        • Warren Thompson
                          You might try The Learning Co. The set I am studying now has 4 lectures on Sartre. The cassettes are only 34.00 on sale/ or try on E-bay & sometimes you can
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 16, 2004
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                            You might try The Learning Co. The set I am studying now has 4 lectures on Sartre.
                            The cassettes are only 34.00 on sale/ or try on E-bay & sometimes you can get them
                            fairly reasonable.
                            So far I am learning how many mis-conceptions there are when 1 idea is not understood or taken out of context.

                            Warren Thompson
                            See:
                            http://www.teach12.com/store/course.asp?id=437&d=No+Excuses%3A+Existentialism+and+the+Meaning+of+Life

                            ********************

                            From: "npepper1"
                            Subject: Sartre


                            I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available
                            What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you





                            My blog: http://wot53.blogspot.com

                            As a starting point let us take the idea that this life
                            should be experienced deeply, lived fully, with sensitive
                            awareness and appreciation of that which is around us.
                            Lloyd and Mary Morain
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                          • dian mills
                            I had a paper doing which I finished. Now, I might fail the paper as I was completely lost so then I might need Learning Co, thank you. Warren Thompson
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 17, 2004
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                              I had a paper doing which I finished. Now, I might fail the paper as I was completely lost so then I might need Learning Co, thank you.


                              Warren Thompson <wot53_2000@...> wrote:
                              You might try The Learning Co. The set I am studying now has 4 lectures on Sartre.
                              The cassettes are only 34.00 on sale/ or try on E-bay & sometimes you can get them
                              fairly reasonable.
                              So far I am learning how many mis-conceptions there are when 1 idea is not understood or taken out of context.

                              Warren Thompson
                              See:
                              http://www.teach12.com/store/course.asp?id=437&d=No+Excuses%3A+Existentialism+and+the+Meaning+of+Life

                              ********************

                              From: "npepper1"
                              Subject: Sartre


                              I would like some help on Sartre if there is anyone available
                              What does nothingness, nihilation and negation mean? Thank you





                              My blog: http://wot53.blogspot.com

                              As a starting point let us take the idea that this life
                              should be experienced deeply, lived fully, with sensitive
                              awareness and appreciation of that which is around us.
                              Lloyd and Mary Morain
                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                            • William
                              Mary, I agree, Sartre was aloof. I have seen old kinographs of him and he was a bit of a dandy. A French, dandy, intellectual. I have been to the bar in
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 18, 2009
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                                Mary, I agree, Sartre was aloof. I have seen old kinographs of him and he was a bit of a dandy. A French, dandy, intellectual. I have been to the bar in Insbruck where Jean Paul would hold forth. He would take on all comers in rough and tumble ,open debate. It was a mingling of survivor and king of the hill. People got stabbed and shot as the debate could become physical. Sartre liked to debate drunk and I have stood where he held sway. Those were interesting times with colorful, lively characters . Certainly the French intellectual class has no problem with ego and Sartre was the top Gaul. With he and Uncle Albert in the same time slot things seemed to get on well. Did they ever tangle?Bill
                              • Mary
                                Bill, from what I ve read, Sartre admired Camus as a street tough but didn t think much of his philosophical skills, and his own rather violent political
                                Message 15 of 18 , Dec 18, 2009
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                                  Bill, from what I've read, Sartre admired Camus as a 'street tough' but didn't think much of his philosophical skills, and his own rather violent political stance is credited as compensation for his non involvement in the Resistance. Camus however was active in the Resistance, more realistic and less brittle politically. Camus was considered brittle socially and often outside the privileged Left. He always considered himself an artist before anything else. He did have a marvelous temper, and I recall a story about him throwing a glass full of something or other during one of those infamous debates you mentioned. Mary

                                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Mary, I agree, Sartre was aloof. I have seen old kinographs of him and he was a bit of a dandy. A French, dandy, intellectual. I have been to the bar in Insbruck where Jean Paul would hold forth. He would take on all comers in rough and tumble ,open debate. It was a mingling of survivor and king of the hill. People got stabbed and shot as the debate could become physical. Sartre liked to debate drunk and I have stood where he held sway. Those were interesting times with colorful, lively characters . Certainly the French intellectual class has no problem with ego and Sartre was the top Gaul. With he and Uncle Albert in the same time slot things seemed to get on well. Did they ever tangle?Bill
                                  >
                                • Herman
                                  Aloof? Nah. Tens of thousands of people do not line the street for the funeral of an aloof being. Nor does an aloof man decline the Nobel Prize for literature.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Dec 18, 2009
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                                    Aloof? Nah. Tens of thousands of people do not line the street for the
                                    funeral of an aloof being. Nor does an aloof man decline the Nobel Prize for
                                    literature.

                                    I suggest that you are telling us about yourself, and your reactions to a
                                    towering, possibly intimidating intellect. Your freedom is being duly
                                    exercised in an ongoing act of imagination. Dandy indeed. Har de har har :-)

                                    Polly

                                    2009/12/19 William <v.valleywestdental@...>

                                    > Mary, I agree, Sartre was aloof. I have seen old kinographs of him and he
                                    > was a bit of a dandy. A French, dandy, intellectual. I have been to the bar
                                    > in Insbruck where Jean Paul would hold forth. He would take on all comers in
                                    > rough and tumble ,open debate. It was a mingling of survivor and king of the
                                    > hill. People got stabbed and shot as the debate could become physical.
                                    > Sartre liked to debate drunk and I have stood where he held sway. Those were
                                    > interesting times with colorful, lively characters . Certainly the French
                                    > intellectual class has no problem with ego and Sartre was the top Gaul. With
                                    > he and Uncle Albert in the same time slot things seemed to get on well. Did
                                    > they ever tangle?Bill
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                                    >
                                    > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


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                                  • Jim
                                    Mary, I ve very much enjoyed reading your recent posts on Sartre and his account of consciousness, as well as the related subjects of nothingness and freedom.
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jul 2, 2013
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                                      Mary,

                                      I've very much enjoyed reading your recent posts on Sartre and his account of consciousness, as well as the related subjects of nothingness and freedom.

                                      I haven't responded directly as I feel my knowledge of all this is not great, so I haven't really had anything to add to what you have written.

                                      I am taking some time out now to dip into two commentaries I have on Sartre, both by people I have known personally and studied with in the 1990's. One is my old supervisor Gregory McCulloch who unfortunately died prematurely, the other is Gary Cox who was a postgraduate with me, and I remember once walked out on a talk I was giving as he was not interested in it! Still I won't hold that against him as his book on Sartre seems a good one.

                                      Anyway after I've done some reading I'll try to write something intelligent on Sartre.

                                      Jim
                                    • Mary
                                      I greatly look forward to it, Jim. I ve had a copy of his Being and Nothingness sitting around here for a year or more and never read any of it until recently.
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jul 2, 2013
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                                        I greatly look forward to it, Jim. I've had a copy of his Being and Nothingness sitting around here for a year or more and never read any of it until recently. I've actually set Hegel aside for now, but strangely, it was reading a little Hegel which has made reading Sartre less difficult. I discovered unfortunately, however, that my Hazel Barnes edition is abridged and leaves out the Bad Faith section. I'll have to find that somewhere else at some point.

                                        Mary

                                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Mary,
                                        >
                                        > I've very much enjoyed reading your recent posts on Sartre and his account of consciousness, as well as the related subjects of nothingness and freedom.
                                        >
                                        > I haven't responded directly as I feel my knowledge of all this is not great, so I haven't really had anything to add to what you have written.
                                        >
                                        > I am taking some time out now to dip into two commentaries I have on Sartre, both by people I have known personally and studied with in the 1990's. One is my old supervisor Gregory McCulloch who unfortunately died prematurely, the other is Gary Cox who was a postgraduate with me, and I remember once walked out on a talk I was giving as he was not interested in it! Still I won't hold that against him as his book on Sartre seems a good one.
                                        >
                                        > Anyway after I've done some reading I'll try to write something intelligent on Sartre.
                                        >
                                        > Jim
                                        >
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