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Re: [existlist] Re: spirituality

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  • Bill Harris
    Niz,I begin to see spirtuality as a seeking of common ground with the more dim persons who share this planet. Yet it bothers me beyond the obvious
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 21, 2002
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      Niz,I begin to see spirtuality as a seeking of common ground with the more
      dim persons who share this planet. Yet it bothers me beyond the obvious
      condesention present in that facade. This universe is not that hard to
      explain and can be exposed in simple terms. The worship people always
      resort to scare tactics and emotinality. I do not think we have a need for
      spirtuality, we have a need for security. The need for security grows out
      of our will to life and fear of death. When stronger minds exploit these
      primal motovations in the less intelligent we are at the core of social
      injustice. To say "It is the way of the world" is a deterministic, self
      serving lie. I like the way George attacks this type of situation, he uses
      ridicule , and takes, and fiercely occupies the intellectual high ground. He
      makes no excuse for his greater knowledge of the construct and does not
      condescend in order to mitigate differences.The hard part is to avoid using
      the methods ascribed in Mein Kampt for our motives. We need to tell a
      plain, simple, truthful story. Since the story is not particulary pleasant,
      we should outline how this view of the construct can lead to a more secure
      life. Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "nizkoi" <nizkoi@...>
      To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:10 AM
      Subject: [existlist] Re: spirituality


      > <<But something else nags us on to seek after spirituality.>>?
      >
      > Why?
      >
      > I am but a pimple on the face of insignificance, but one thing I
      > think any rational person has to agree with is that you can't
      > possibly have any grasp of existence. Having a 'god' is an
      > excuse, or wildly grand assumption that you know better.
      >
      > Try to imagine the number of scenarios by which your existence
      > may or may not be influenced by a supremem being. For
      > example, consider the brains-in-vats theory where we are
      > possibly living in a fake world that is created by electromagnetic
      > pulses to our brain that sits in a vat of fluid in another dimension.
      > Consider, before you dismiss this, the ultimate endpoint of
      > virtual reality and role playing, and how a superior society might
      > engage in extended role playing as a vacation from the grim
      > reality of a bored eternal existence. Maybe the god you seek is
      > yourself.
      >
      > Spirituality is traditionally sought by those seeking an
      > explanation that are willing to be deceived as to its end or origin.
      > I'm just too stupid to assume I know of spirituality as an answer.
      > And too stupid to figure out which scenario of the many I can
      > devise would be more likely than another. It seems no better
      > than taking drugs.
      >
      > The quote from Freud was apropos. It was paraphrased as: "Life
      > is all we have ever known & we can't even imagine non-being." It
      > begs both the question "Is there more to know?" and "Is it
      > possible to know?" Either of which I'll never be smart enough to
      > answer.
      >
      > niz
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
      > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
      >
      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
      > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • George Walton
      Bill, Let me try rephrasing my own approach to philosophy. Perhaps the most useful way to encompass it is to expose both the futility and the very real danger
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 21, 2002
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        Bill,

        Let me try rephrasing my own approach to philosophy. Perhaps the most useful
        way to encompass it is to expose both the futility and the very real danger
        that the history of philosophy has allowed us to glean to date in pondering
        its myriad apologists' approach: as an adhesive.

        Philosophy, in other words, should not be pursued, in my opinion, as a way
        to bring us together so much as to speculate on more effective [practical]
        ways to keep us from growing farther and farther apart. This point of view,
        I believe, is especially relevant in an age where, with God taking a beating
        day after day in the malls, what is now called "normal nihilism" suffuses so
        much of what is, beyond rational dispute, the most powerful social
        locomotive on the planet: pop culture. And, of course, the vulgar mass
        consumption that is its fuel.

        The paradox for me, however, is that, in a twisted sort of way, pop culture
        may well be the only thing separating us from the Osama bin Ashcrofts of the
        world. Does any brain dead ideologue [including God and Eduard] stand much
        of a chance in the gigantic shadows of Hollywood, Wal-Mart and the National
        Football League? When they go, alas, one fascist
        political/theological/ideological rendition or another will fill in the
        vacuum, I'm sure. After all, they're all just one or the other side of the
        SAME fascist political/theological/ideological coin, eh? There must be
        hundreds and hundreds of ways to spell Salvation by now.

        So, excuse me, please, while I go out and buy something for the cause:
        democracy!!

        george



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bill Harris <bhvwd@...>
        To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:32 PM
        Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: spirituality


        > Niz,I begin to see spirtuality as a seeking of common ground with the more
        > dim persons who share this planet. Yet it bothers me beyond the obvious
        > condesention present in that facade. This universe is not that hard to
        > explain and can be exposed in simple terms. The worship people always
        > resort to scare tactics and emotinality. I do not think we have a need for
        > spirtuality, we have a need for security. The need for security grows out
        > of our will to life and fear of death. When stronger minds exploit these
        > primal motovations in the less intelligent we are at the core of social
        > injustice. To say "It is the way of the world" is a deterministic, self
        > serving lie. I like the way George attacks this type of situation, he
        uses
        > ridicule , and takes, and fiercely occupies the intellectual high ground.
        He
        > makes no excuse for his greater knowledge of the construct and does not
        > condescend in order to mitigate differences.The hard part is to avoid
        using
        > the methods ascribed in Mein Kampt for our motives. We need to tell a
        > plain, simple, truthful story. Since the story is not particulary
        pleasant,
        > we should outline how this view of the construct can lead to a more
        secure
        > life. Bill
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "nizkoi" <nizkoi@...>
        > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:10 AM
        > Subject: [existlist] Re: spirituality
        >
        >
        > > <<But something else nags us on to seek after spirituality.>>?
        > >
        > > Why?
        > >
        > > I am but a pimple on the face of insignificance, but one thing I
        > > think any rational person has to agree with is that you can't
        > > possibly have any grasp of existence. Having a 'god' is an
        > > excuse, or wildly grand assumption that you know better.
        > >
        > > Try to imagine the number of scenarios by which your existence
        > > may or may not be influenced by a supremem being. For
        > > example, consider the brains-in-vats theory where we are
        > > possibly living in a fake world that is created by electromagnetic
        > > pulses to our brain that sits in a vat of fluid in another dimension.
        > > Consider, before you dismiss this, the ultimate endpoint of
        > > virtual reality and role playing, and how a superior society might
        > > engage in extended role playing as a vacation from the grim
        > > reality of a bored eternal existence. Maybe the god you seek is
        > > yourself.
        > >
        > > Spirituality is traditionally sought by those seeking an
        > > explanation that are willing to be deceived as to its end or origin.
        > > I'm just too stupid to assume I know of spirituality as an answer.
        > > And too stupid to figure out which scenario of the many I can
        > > devise would be more likely than another. It seems no better
        > > than taking drugs.
        > >
        > > The quote from Freud was apropos. It was paraphrased as: "Life
        > > is all we have ever known & we can't even imagine non-being." It
        > > begs both the question "Is there more to know?" and "Is it
        > > possible to know?" Either of which I'll never be smart enough to
        > > answer.
        > >
        > > niz
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        > >
        > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
        > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
        > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Dave Hall
        Bill, For me, spirituality is a hightened sense of awareness, a euphoric psychosis,
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 21, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Bill,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
          "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



          For me, spirituality is a hightened sense of awareness, a euphoric
          psychosis, in forming and reforming a close conceptual association with
          larger and more complex spheres of life.



          Standing atop the blue and gray Sangre de Christo mountains outside Santa
          Fe, New Mexico, I gaze across the stage of Mother's unintended, chaotic
          drama, in which I play a part, like every other organism - from amoeba to
          eagle to rain clouds - and a feeling of belonging comes over me - a
          spiritual connection in value quite beyond the capability of my absurd,
          organized, babbling "social skills" to communicate.



          I had a similar "spiritual" experience sitting quietly in the basement of a
          hotel on the west coast of Kauai, Hawaii in 1993 as 220 MPH winds from a
          hurricane howled overhead, sweeping every human-made vestige of civilization
          into the Pacific surf. I felt in "awe" of Mothers power, to create and
          destroy utterly and with complete indifference.



          I realize the traditional definition of the word relates to ghosts and
          unmoved movers and the like, but how absolutists think inside their boxes
          really turns my stomach anyhow.



          As an aside, isn't life quite secure enough, Bill? Human beings are, after
          all, in no danger of becoming extinct; it seems to me also that those of us
          who are most secure are also more apt to commit attrocities "at a distance."
          I'm not sure, what with the innate characteristics of the human psyche, that
          its security can lead to a better, richer, more rewarding existence for All.



          -Dave



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
          Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:33 AM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: spirituality



          Niz,I begin to see spirtuality as a seeking of common ground with the more
          dim persons who share this planet. Yet it bothers me beyond the obvious
          condesention present in that facade. This universe is not that hard to
          explain and can be exposed in simple terms. The worship people always
          resort to scare tactics and emotinality. I do not think we have a need for
          spirtuality, we have a need for security. The need for security grows out
          of our will to life and fear of death. When stronger minds exploit these
          primal motovations in the less intelligent we are at the core of social
          injustice. To say "It is the way of the world" is a deterministic, self
          serving lie. I like the way George attacks this type of situation, he uses
          ridicule , and takes, and fiercely occupies the intellectual high ground. He
          makes no excuse for his greater knowledge of the construct and does not
          condescend in order to mitigate differences.The hard part is to avoid using
          the methods ascribed in Mein Kampt for our motives. We need to tell a
          plain, simple, truthful story. Since the story is not particulary pleasant,
          we should outline how this view of the construct can lead to a more secure
          life. Bill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "nizkoi" <nizkoi@...>
          To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:10 AM
          Subject: [existlist] Re: spirituality


          > <<But something else nags us on to seek after spirituality.>>?
          >
          > Why?
          >
          > I am but a pimple on the face of insignificance, but one thing I
          > think any rational person has to agree with is that you can't
          > possibly have any grasp of existence. Having a 'god' is an
          > excuse, or wildly grand assumption that you know better.
          >
          > Try to imagine the number of scenarios by which your existence
          > may or may not be influenced by a supremem being. For
          > example, consider the brains-in-vats theory where we are
          > possibly living in a fake world that is created by electromagnetic
          > pulses to our brain that sits in a vat of fluid in another dimension.
          > Consider, before you dismiss this, the ultimate endpoint of
          > virtual reality and role playing, and how a superior society might
          > engage in extended role playing as a vacation from the grim
          > reality of a bored eternal existence. Maybe the god you seek is
          > yourself.
          >
          > Spirituality is traditionally sought by those seeking an
          > explanation that are willing to be deceived as to its end or origin.
          > I'm just too stupid to assume I know of spirituality as an answer.
          > And too stupid to figure out which scenario of the many I can
          > devise would be more likely than another. It seems no better
          > than taking drugs.
          >
          > The quote from Freud was apropos. It was paraphrased as: "Life
          > is all we have ever known & we can't even imagine non-being." It
          > begs both the question "Is there more to know?" and "Is it
          > possible to know?" Either of which I'll never be smart enough to
          > answer.
          >
          > niz
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist>
          > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
          > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
          >
          >



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Harris
          Dave, For you and I life probably has a secure foundation, psychologically, philosophcally, and physically. You are right , we could be the bold deceivers of
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 21, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Dave, For you and I life probably has a secure foundation, psychologically,
            philosophcally, and physically. You are right , we could be the bold
            deceivers of the less endowed. So many are not secure and my point is it
            just may be the time to end the ancient subtrafuge. Nah, Let them eat cake.
            Bill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dave Hall" <daveh@...>
            To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:26 PM
            Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: spirituality


            > Bill,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
            > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
            >
            >
            >
            > For me, spirituality is a hightened sense of awareness, a euphoric
            > psychosis, in forming and reforming a close conceptual association with
            > larger and more complex spheres of life.
            >
            >
            >
            > Standing atop the blue and gray Sangre de Christo mountains outside Santa
            > Fe, New Mexico, I gaze across the stage of Mother's unintended, chaotic
            > drama, in which I play a part, like every other organism - from amoeba to
            > eagle to rain clouds - and a feeling of belonging comes over me - a
            > spiritual connection in value quite beyond the capability of my absurd,
            > organized, babbling "social skills" to communicate.
            >
            >
            >
            > I had a similar "spiritual" experience sitting quietly in the basement of
            a
            > hotel on the west coast of Kauai, Hawaii in 1993 as 220 MPH winds from a
            > hurricane howled overhead, sweeping every human-made vestige of
            civilization
            > into the Pacific surf. I felt in "awe" of Mothers power, to create and
            > destroy utterly and with complete indifference.
            >
            >
            >
            > I realize the traditional definition of the word relates to ghosts and
            > unmoved movers and the like, but how absolutists think inside their boxes
            > really turns my stomach anyhow.
            >
            >
            >
            > As an aside, isn't life quite secure enough, Bill? Human beings are,
            after
            > all, in no danger of becoming extinct; it seems to me also that those of
            us
            > who are most secure are also more apt to commit attrocities "at a
            distance."
            > I'm not sure, what with the innate characteristics of the human psyche,
            that
            > its security can lead to a better, richer, more rewarding existence for
            All.
            >
            >
            >
            > -Dave
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Bill Harris [mailto:bhvwd@...]
            > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:33 AM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: spirituality
            >
            >
            >
            > Niz,I begin to see spirtuality as a seeking of common ground with the more
            > dim persons who share this planet. Yet it bothers me beyond the obvious
            > condesention present in that facade. This universe is not that hard to
            > explain and can be exposed in simple terms. The worship people always
            > resort to scare tactics and emotinality. I do not think we have a need for
            > spirtuality, we have a need for security. The need for security grows out
            > of our will to life and fear of death. When stronger minds exploit these
            > primal motovations in the less intelligent we are at the core of social
            > injustice. To say "It is the way of the world" is a deterministic, self
            > serving lie. I like the way George attacks this type of situation, he
            uses
            > ridicule , and takes, and fiercely occupies the intellectual high ground.
            He
            > makes no excuse for his greater knowledge of the construct and does not
            > condescend in order to mitigate differences.The hard part is to avoid
            using
            > the methods ascribed in Mein Kampt for our motives. We need to tell a
            > plain, simple, truthful story. Since the story is not particulary
            pleasant,
            > we should outline how this view of the construct can lead to a more
            secure
            > life. Bill
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "nizkoi" <nizkoi@...>
            > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:10 AM
            > Subject: [existlist] Re: spirituality
            >
            >
            > > <<But something else nags us on to seek after spirituality.>>?
            > >
            > > Why?
            > >
            > > I am but a pimple on the face of insignificance, but one thing I
            > > think any rational person has to agree with is that you can't
            > > possibly have any grasp of existence. Having a 'god' is an
            > > excuse, or wildly grand assumption that you know better.
            > >
            > > Try to imagine the number of scenarios by which your existence
            > > may or may not be influenced by a supremem being. For
            > > example, consider the brains-in-vats theory where we are
            > > possibly living in a fake world that is created by electromagnetic
            > > pulses to our brain that sits in a vat of fluid in another dimension.
            > > Consider, before you dismiss this, the ultimate endpoint of
            > > virtual reality and role playing, and how a superior society might
            > > engage in extended role playing as a vacation from the grim
            > > reality of a bored eternal existence. Maybe the god you seek is
            > > yourself.
            > >
            > > Spirituality is traditionally sought by those seeking an
            > > explanation that are willing to be deceived as to its end or origin.
            > > I'm just too stupid to assume I know of spirituality as an answer.
            > > And too stupid to figure out which scenario of the many I can
            > > devise would be more likely than another. It seems no better
            > > than taking drugs.
            > >
            > > The quote from Freud was apropos. It was paraphrased as: "Life
            > > is all we have ever known & we can't even imagine non-being." It
            > > begs both the question "Is there more to know?" and "Is it
            > > possible to know?" Either of which I'll never be smart enough to
            > > answer.
            > >
            > > niz
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist>
            > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
            > >
            > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
            > > existlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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          • Bill Harris
            George, I have practised dentistry for twenty years in a mall. Two days from now I will leave for more quiet environs. I see mass culture becoming mass
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 21, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              George, I have practised dentistry for twenty years in a mall. Two days from
              now I will leave for more quiet environs. I see mass culture becoming mass
              boredom. True, we switch from one plaything to another, but many are not
              satisfied. Those excited shoppers of a few years ago are now blank faced. So
              I move on. Maby I will put some difficult pictures on my new, more private
              walls. Perhaps I will inject more content into my drab chairside manner.
              This idiom is worn and something is begging to supplant the tedium. What if
              it were substantive questioning of existance. Could we who asked those
              questions years ago have the courage to put forth ideas of substance? Can
              we risk the rejection of those who have trusted us to be bland? Bill
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "George Walton" <george@...>
              To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:36 PM
              Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: spirituality


              > Bill,
              >
              > Let me try rephrasing my own approach to philosophy. Perhaps the most
              useful
              > way to encompass it is to expose both the futility and the very real
              danger
              > that the history of philosophy has allowed us to glean to date in
              pondering
              > its myriad apologists' approach: as an adhesive.
              >
              > Philosophy, in other words, should not be pursued, in my opinion, as a way
              > to bring us together so much as to speculate on more effective [practical]
              > ways to keep us from growing farther and farther apart. This point of
              view,
              > I believe, is especially relevant in an age where, with God taking a
              beating
              > day after day in the malls, what is now called "normal nihilism" suffuses
              so
              > much of what is, beyond rational dispute, the most powerful social
              > locomotive on the planet: pop culture. And, of course, the vulgar mass
              > consumption that is its fuel.
              >
              > The paradox for me, however, is that, in a twisted sort of way, pop
              culture
              > may well be the only thing separating us from the Osama bin Ashcrofts of
              the
              > world. Does any brain dead ideologue [including God and Eduard] stand much
              > of a chance in the gigantic shadows of Hollywood, Wal-Mart and the
              National
              > Football League? When they go, alas, one fascist
              > political/theological/ideological rendition or another will fill in the
              > vacuum, I'm sure. After all, they're all just one or the other side of the
              > SAME fascist political/theological/ideological coin, eh? There must be
              > hundreds and hundreds of ways to spell Salvation by now.
              >
              > So, excuse me, please, while I go out and buy something for the cause:
              > democracy!!
              >
              > george
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Bill Harris <bhvwd@...>
              > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:32 PM
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: spirituality
              >
              >
              > > Niz,I begin to see spirtuality as a seeking of common ground with the
              more
              > > dim persons who share this planet. Yet it bothers me beyond the obvious
              > > condesention present in that facade. This universe is not that hard to
              > > explain and can be exposed in simple terms. The worship people always
              > > resort to scare tactics and emotinality. I do not think we have a need
              for
              > > spirtuality, we have a need for security. The need for security grows
              out
              > > of our will to life and fear of death. When stronger minds exploit these
              > > primal motovations in the less intelligent we are at the core of
              social
              > > injustice. To say "It is the way of the world" is a deterministic, self
              > > serving lie. I like the way George attacks this type of situation, he
              > uses
              > > ridicule , and takes, and fiercely occupies the intellectual high
              ground.
              > He
              > > makes no excuse for his greater knowledge of the construct and does
              not
              > > condescend in order to mitigate differences.The hard part is to avoid
              > using
              > > the methods ascribed in Mein Kampt for our motives. We need to tell a
              > > plain, simple, truthful story. Since the story is not particulary
              > pleasant,
              > > we should outline how this view of the construct can lead to a more
              > secure
              > > life. Bill
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "nizkoi" <nizkoi@...>
              > > To: <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:10 AM
              > > Subject: [existlist] Re: spirituality
              > >
              > >
              > > > <<But something else nags us on to seek after spirituality.>>?
              > > >
              > > > Why?
              > > >
              > > > I am but a pimple on the face of insignificance, but one thing I
              > > > think any rational person has to agree with is that you can't
              > > > possibly have any grasp of existence. Having a 'god' is an
              > > > excuse, or wildly grand assumption that you know better.
              > > >
              > > > Try to imagine the number of scenarios by which your existence
              > > > may or may not be influenced by a supremem being. For
              > > > example, consider the brains-in-vats theory where we are
              > > > possibly living in a fake world that is created by electromagnetic
              > > > pulses to our brain that sits in a vat of fluid in another dimension.
              > > > Consider, before you dismiss this, the ultimate endpoint of
              > > > virtual reality and role playing, and how a superior society might
              > > > engage in extended role playing as a vacation from the grim
              > > > reality of a bored eternal existence. Maybe the god you seek is
              > > > yourself.
              > > >
              > > > Spirituality is traditionally sought by those seeking an
              > > > explanation that are willing to be deceived as to its end or origin.
              > > > I'm just too stupid to assume I know of spirituality as an answer.
              > > > And too stupid to figure out which scenario of the many I can
              > > > devise would be more likely than another. It seems no better
              > > > than taking drugs.
              > > >
              > > > The quote from Freud was apropos. It was paraphrased as: "Life
              > > > is all we have ever known & we can't even imagine non-being." It
              > > > begs both the question "Is there more to know?" and "Is it
              > > > possible to know?" Either of which I'll never be smart enough to
              > > > answer.
              > > >
              > > > niz
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
              > > > (Includes community book list, chat, and more.)
              > > >
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              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
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              > Our Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist
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              >
            • Eduard Alf
              Dave, Your comment regarding connection may be right on. Perhaps that is what spirituality is all about; a desire to connect with something that we see as
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 21, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Dave,

                Your comment regarding "connection" may be right on. Perhaps that is what
                spirituality is all about; a desire to connect with something that we see as
                unusual or simply beautiful. It may be that our ability to connect to
                others through activating the emotional elements of or brains, has a similar
                affect when we seek to connect with something that is beyond ourselves.

                eduard
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Dave Hall [mailto:daveh@...]
                Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:27 PM
                To: 'existlist@yahoogroups.com'
                Subject: RE: [existlist] Re: spirituality


                Bill,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
                "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



                For me, spirituality is a hightened sense of awareness, a euphoric
                psychosis, in forming and reforming a close conceptual association with
                larger and more complex spheres of life.



                Standing atop the blue and gray Sangre de Christo mountains outside Santa
                Fe, New Mexico, I gaze across the stage of Mother's unintended, chaotic
                drama, in which I play a part, like every other organism - from amoeba to
                eagle to rain clouds - and a feeling of belonging comes over me - a
                spiritual connection in value quite beyond the capability of my absurd,
                organized, babbling "social skills" to communicate.



                I had a similar "spiritual" experience sitting quietly in the basement of
                a
                hotel on the west coast of Kauai, Hawaii in 1993 as 220 MPH winds from a
                hurricane howled overhead, sweeping every human-made vestige of
                civilization
                into the Pacific surf. I felt in "awe" of Mothers power, to create and
                destroy utterly and with complete indifference.



                I realize the traditional definition of the word relates to ghosts and
                unmoved movers and the like, but how absolutists think inside their boxes
                really turns my stomach anyhow.



                As an aside, isn't life quite secure enough, Bill? Human beings are,
                after
                all, in no danger of becoming extinct; it seems to me also that those of
                us
                who are most secure are also more apt to commit attrocities "at a
                distance."
                I'm not sure, what with the innate characteristics of the human psyche,
                that
                its security can lead to a better, richer, more rewarding existence for
                All.



                -Dave


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