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Re: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?

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  • Bhanu Padmo
    Pat, (A delayed reply. And I will not be available at my desk for a week or two now for further replies. Only after I return. Thanks for info in the
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 28, 2013
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      Pat,
      (A delayed reply. And I will not be available at my desk for a week or two now for further replies. Only after I return. Thanks for info in the attachment.)
      (A Burlesque
      Question)

       

      The
      grotesque daily criminal statistics of India is the answer to your burlesque
      question. If India exceeds US in criminality by, say, hundredfold and China by,
      say, two-hundredfold, won*t that be sufficient in your eyes to qualify India
      for entry into hell !!

       

      When
      we are talking about millenary trend and consequence, doesn*t such a current
      predicament mean premature apocalypse for India?

       

      Think
      of the fortunate deserters of Titanic surviving aboard sea-borne lifeboats and
      witnessing the widening crack in the middle of the ship.  Unless one wants to have the ship sunk, will he/
      she ask this comical question then : Why do you think Titanic is doomed to
      sink?

       

      Pat!
      You may have to update yourself (have Kisore Mahbubani updated as well) on
      worsening ghastliness of public morality in India and extrapolate it to locate
      the approaching Indian apocalypse on time-scale.

       

      Of
      course, for that you have to know the relationship between overall national identity
      and general morality.

       

      (People*s
      Representatives : Disparate Managers and Inbuilt Sovereigns)

      Think
      of a family. It is a family because of the familial hierarchy which is based on
      heredity. Familial hierarchy portends a hereditary/ genetic gradient.

       

      Analogous
      to family is nation which is also bound tightly by a hierarchy. This national
      hierarchy is primarily a psycho-intellectual hierarchy portending an emotive
      gradient. This gradient points upwards to social sovereignty ending at national
      sovereignty.

       

      The
      causal characteristic of this psycho-intellectual gradient is intuitive prowess
      (dream) and emotive sophistication (intellect). So, the fountainhead of a
      nation is the stratum of citizens with supreme (critically-beneficent) minds.

       

      Intelligence
      needs to be defined to make these benedictory minds be indentified as the most
      intelligent.

       

      The
      analogy between nation and family may be recalled to reckon the supreme minds
      as the parents of nation and to detect the nation-wide gradient of dream
      (intuitive prowess) and intellect (emotive sophistication). Thus a nation would
      be complete as a family of intelligent dreamers.

       

      That
      is the definition of a civilized nation whose constitution would at once
      recognize protection and empowerment of the plenary (country-wide) body of
      supreme citizens as the seed of democracy. Thus the constitution of a civilized
      nation would launch a sovereign citizen*s party to initiate democracy.
      Democracy is non-existent till it happens.

       

      Has
      it happened in US? Isn*t it that US Constitution has managed to define for it
      and endow it with only a caretaker/ managerial government (not a sovereign
      government)? Aren*t, in the light of this argument, the elected People*s
      Representatives in US are mere disparate managers (not inbuilt sovereigns, not integrated
      sovereigns, not the fountainhead of national sovereignty)?

       

      (Rooted Power and
      Booty Power)

       

      Haven*t
      we been talking about long-term (say, millenary) trend and consequence of a
      nation? Irreversible morality-rooted power is different from reversible booty
      power. The latter, like its underlying immorality, is transient. History is the
      witness to both types of power. We have to discern one form the other.

       



      (Bhanu Padmo)

      http://www.bhanupadmo.com


      You
      may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/%c2%a0
      as well

      or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended discussions.



      --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Pat Louise Davies <pld@...> wrote:

      From: Pat Louise Davies <pld@...>
      Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?
      To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 7:17 PM
















       









      


       

       
      Hi Bhanu, 
       
       
       
      Ty for you reply;   I have three questions
      below:
       
       
       
      1.   Bhanu, why do you think India is doomed to
      "sink"?    I will keep her in my meditations and
      prayers.
       
       
       
      2.  What do you mean by your sentence below (in
      blue)?  Could you clarify what you mean by "organizing
      on the basis of dream and emotion" into a "country wide and plenary civil
      hierarchy?"  ...maybe giving a simple example on a topic (?) -- TY
      ~
       
       
      BP<<< 
      Has US taken even the
      first step towards organizing own citizens on the basis of dream and emotion
      into a country-wide and plenary civil
      hierarchy?
       
       
      3.  I also have a question about this:
       
      BP <<< Unstoppability of march to power will be
      accompanied by steep moral ascension.    We need not be afraid of the reasonable
      future.
       
      So, why do you think "steep moral ascension" will
      accompany "march to power", Bhanu?  Historically in the human race, immoral aggression seems to have more
      typically accompanied marches to power.
       
       
      Gratefulness ~
      Namaste,
      P    


       
      .         


      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Bhanu Padmo
      To: esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com ;
      greenlogic@yahoogroups.com ; TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com ; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com ; existlist@yahoogroups.com ; TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com ; Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: 2013-02-24
      13:45
      Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l]
      Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?

       






      Hi Pat!
       
      (Sino-American
      Relativism : Issues of National Sovereignty and Human
      Rights)
       
      Let us start with the
      contentious issue of the prospect of Chinese march towards the strongest
      economy.
       
      *National economy*
      without the underlying commensurate *general morality* proves, sooner or
      later, to be brute. *General morality* needs to be transformed into
      *national morality* through a consistent *polity*. *Political morality*
      is the matter of profound reasoning and is materialized through an
      appropriate *political model*.
       
      The primal question
      that a *political model* answers (and implements such an answer) is that
      about the true nature of *national sovereignty* and the formal method of
      creating/ assembling it. The *national constitution* ought to
      incorporate the answer (statement about nature of national sovereignty)
      and the model.
       
      The generic name of
      this model is *democracy*. The actual nature of identified national
      sovereignty is the index of the *native democracy*.
       
      Thus the analysis of
      consequences of *national economy* ought to take into consideration
      respective *political economy* that delineates the nature of identified
      national sovereignty, the nature of constitution with respect to
      incorporation of national sovereignty, the nature of political model
      thereof and the nature of political control over national economy.

       
      Be it China or US, the
      international impact of respective national economy will finally be the
      function of locally conceived and implemented general morality, polity,
      reasonability of political model, nature of national sovereignty and the
      methodology of assembling national sovereignty. The nodal point in this
      sequence is the nature of identified national sovereignty.
       
      Assuming that both
      these nations are not going to change much in near future, we may pull
      out our gamma counter to measure the strength of respective radiations
      in terms of rectitude (democratic values) of respective identified
      national sovereignty. The gamma counter (a contrivance for measuring
      number of gamma rays emanating out of a neighboring radioactive
      substance) is a metaphor for analysis (analytic power) of a nation*s
      physical international effects.
       
      Isn*t it very difficult
      to assess democratic values of a nation from its international physical
      relationships?
       
      It is not so difficult
      if we can appreciate *crime/ immorality/ cruelty statistics* as the
      *cardinal/ absolute index of organized status (community, nation,
      religion etc)*.
       
      While measuring
      democratic values of a national model, we have to resolve its aura into
      two components viz. *sub-frontier aura* (intra-national effect) and
      *trans-frontier aura* (international effect). Accordingly, our survey of
      crime/ immorality/ cruelty would also have two components :
      *sub-frontier survey of national offenses* and *trans-frontier survey of
      national offences*.
       
      *Sub-frontier offenses*
      has two sub-divisions : *public offenses* and *administrative
      punishments*.
       
      Punishment is here seen
      as a form of catalytic cruelty that would deter multi-fold conflagration
      of cruelty in variant forms. Public offense as malevolent cruelty is a
      *positive offense*. Administrative punishment as benevolent cruelty is a
      *negative offense*. To be on the safer side, both *public positive
      offense* and *administrative negative offense* may be seen as human
      rights violations, real or virtual.
       
      Naturally, we are now
      reminded of the notions of *public negative offense* (public benevolent
      cruelty) and *administrative positive offense* (administrative
      malevolent cruelty) as well.
       
      To pass over the
      difficulty of discerning negative offense from positive offense in both
      public and administrative domains, we may think of *integral
      sub-frontier cruelty statistics*. *Integral sub-frontier cruelty* will
      thus be the sum of the contents of all four sections viz. positive and
      negative offenses of both public and administrative domains.
       
      Integral sub-frontier
      cruelty statistics may be taken at least as the gross *index of (working
      of) democratic values* within the frontiers of the nation. To be on the
      safer side, let this statistics depict the *integral human rights
      violation* of the nation.
       
      Would you like to
      assess American and Chinese records of *integral sub-frontier cruelty*
      or *integral sub-frontier human rights violation*?
       
      Shouldn*t we appreciate
      the fact that China has managed to lower the level of public crime/
      offense almost to the ground, leaving not much option before us to be
      influenced by rumors (arising out of intentional diplomatic vitiations
      of isolated/ selected cases)?
       
      Come to the other
      division of crime survey : statistics of trans-frontier crime/
      immorality/ cruelty. xxx
       
      Effects of induced wars
      and imposed international policies originating from American premises
      need to be inspected and assessed thoroughly to come to the unexpected
      final count. Obvious answers to few discreet questions do outline the
      trans-frontier American image. Is America bothered about even simple
      survival of third-world countries if they don*t opt to be subjugated by
      her most abjectly? Does America appreciate unconditional benevolence?
      Does America tolerate other*s sense of independence and
      contentment?
       
      Why have we to seem so
      mean and make such utterances against America when American *general
      morality* is so high? Undeniable is the radical and creative outlook of
      Americans. Unparalleled is their intellectual contribution to mankind.
      Insuperability of their wisdom has been quite appropriately translated
      into insuperability of their physical might. Why have we to seem so mean
      and make such utterances against America then?
       
      The answer to this
      queer question is connoted by these counter questions : Why has then the
      issue of China cropped up so obtrusively? Why did the concern of
      relative deceleration of US/ West (with respect to unstoppably
      accelerating China) become so imminent so soon? How could a fallen and
      ailing China come round to emulate US/ West in just six decades of
      time?
       
      All these connote the
      tipping point abut descent and ascent of nations. We have indicated
      earlier at the very beginning of this discussion the incidence of this
      tipping point in the nature of identified national sovereignty and the
      commensurate political model and the ensuing degree of native democracy.
      That is it.
       
      Extant great *general
      morality-creativity* of US/ West would have to be transformed into
      respective *national-political morality-creativity* through a consistent
      *polity* equipped with an appropriate *political model*. Without a womb,
      the body would have to be infertile. American general morality lacks the
      womb to generate great (benign) global consequences. What is being
      projected currently as American/ Western global impact may not be as
      great, as benign.
      The womb is the
      commensurate *political model* that would uphold great democratic values
      through better appreciation of national sovereignty. What is being
      projected currently as American/ Western democratic values may not be as
      great.
       
      So everything boils
      down to the definition of national sovereignty. This definition could
      generate the absolute/ ideal polity, the absolute/ ideal democracy.

       
      American political
      system lacks the requisite concern about that definition and model. That
      is how American *national-political morality* stands contrary to
      American *general morality*. That is how American image is so ambiguous,
      so anomalous. That is how American government and American people are
      two separate/ different/ incommensurable entities. America seem to be
      suffering from an excruciating *political dualism*.
       
      If not solved in time,
      this political dualism will make extant American glory fade. It will
      become a burden to itself and to the world. It will bring about the
      great decline of the West. We are talking about the millenary events.

       
      The decline is to be
      understood in dynamic/ relative view. The relative decline with respect
      to China is the context. There are already indications of irreversible
      relative deceleration of America/ West or irreversible relative
      acceleration of China.
       
      The *theory of
      universal national sovereignty and absolute polity* would apply to all
      countries, big or small, old or new, US or China or India, alike. The
      relative progression of China and the relative recession of US could be
      explained by the same theory. If US is losing its hold on own prospects
      by way of being a mere bystander to own worsening political dualism,
      then China would have to be deemed to be tightening its hold on own
      prospects by way of solving own political dualism discreetly and
      progressively.
       
      If we take *political
      model* and the ensuing *national-political morality-creativity* as the
      cause and the *general morality-creativity* as the consequence, the
      present scenario for US and China may be delineated as follows : US may
      be deemed to have currently a higher general morality-creativity and
      lesser national-political morality-creativity when China may be deemed
      to have currently a lower general morality-creativity and higher
      national-political morality-creativity. Since, national-political
      morality-creativity is *causal* with respect to shaping of general
      morality-creativity, edging of China may be ascribed to the higher
      degree of the causal agency (higher political morality) it has managed
      to procure and wield.
       
      Reckoning the
      *political morality* of a country isn*t easy. A better cultural legacy
      or a persuasive propaganda may cause the current political morality seem
      higher. US enjoys such a position and has managed to be popular as a
      high democracy. This assumption has made US political system seem
      colorful and benign. To know whether it is truly so, we shall have to
      put her to the critical test. The critical test is the nature of her
      conviction about *national sovereignty*.
       
      Is the plenary body of
      best US citizens universally and eternally empowered by the US
      Constitution to integratedly rule that country at every level by way of
      nationalizing an evolving wisdom and jurisprudence (to be
      internationalized by global consensus later)? Has US contemplated over
      such a possibility? Has US taken even the first step towards organizing
      own citizens on the basis of dream and emotion into a country-wide and
      plenary civil hierarchy?
       
      Has China contemplated
      over such a possibility in own case and acted upon such
      contemplations?
       
      Benignancy or
      malignancy of a powerful national economy will be the function of the
      degree of conformity to this seminal political/ constitutional morality.
      Baseless apprehension about Sino-American relativism doesn*t matter.
      Primacy of definition of national sovereignty and the ensuing theory of
      absolute polity is the guiding light.
       
      Unstoppability of march
      to power will be accompanied by steep moral ascension. We need not be
      afraid of the reasonable future.

      (Bhanu Padmo)
      http://www.bhanupadmo.com

      You may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/%c2%a0
      as well
      or consign a copy to greenlogic@...  
      for extended discussions.

      --- On Fri, 2/22/13, Pat Louise Davies
      <pld@...> wrote:


      From:
      Pat Louise Davies <pld@...>
      Subject: [Wisdom-l]
      Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?
      To:
      esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com, greenlogic@yahoogroups.com,
      TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com, seerseeker@yahoogroups.com,
      existlist@yahoogroups.com, TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com,
      Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, February 22, 2013, 8:34
      PM



       

      
       

      Bhanu,
       
      Thanks much for your
      comments about Kishore Mahbubani.  I will be chewing on
      them.  Meanwhile, I have a few immediate questions below,
      and a Kishorean quote...
       

      re:
      BP <<< The East-to-West flight of global
      socio-cultural center is about to be reversed in near future.
      Kishore*s words seems to be prophetic up to this point. But what he
      has to see further is that the West-to-East flight of global
      socio-cultural polarity would be consummated in China. And the credit
      for this historic phenomenon would go exclusively to China.

       
      PL >  Qs:
       
      "Credit" by whom?  -- What do you mean by "credit for this historic phenomenon would go
      exclusively to China"? 
       
      In his talk Kishore conveyed his
      perception that China will probably become the most
      powerful economy within approx the next decade.  He also
      stated, as he also does in his Feb 2013 book (The Great
      Convergence), that China will
      eventually become more democratic.  At his Cornell talk, Kishore
      said that China has learned from Russia's bad experience
      of shifting towards
      democracy too quickly;--- that
      economic depression would result, as it did with Russia.  He
      believes that there is currently a very gradual transition towards
      democracy underway in
      China.  
      He gave the example of travel by
      Chinese citizens out and then back
      into China, for multi-year durations,
      as a example of this transition. 
       
      Do you agree with any
      of this?
       
      I realize that those of us who personally
      know victims of Chinese oppression/violence find the prospect of a more powerful China
      challenging;  including the challenge of having any faith
      that Chinese political evoluton could be positive re: human
      rights;  That said, here is a quote from
      Convergence:
       
      Nevertheless, a more democratic China
      will emerge.  The ultimate political destination for China is not
      in doubt.  It will be an unavoidable choice, especially once
      China has developed the largest middle class in the world.  The
      only question is whether America or any other power will ...

      interfer(e) with China's domestic processes.  The temptation to
      interfere is strong in America. 
      A wiser course is to
      allow China to
      develop at its own pace. 
      By not crossing the red line in this area, America would also help to preserve geopolitical
      stability.
             
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
          Convergence, K-Mahbubani,
      p.157.
       
      Any thoughts?
       
      re:
      BP>>> That is not all. The saddest part
      of the futuristic story is that the Titanic will sink prior to this
      stretch of evolution of history, if an averting magic doesn*t occur.
      The doomed ship is India, the second Titanic. And this Titanic, even
      as she arrives at the bottom of the ocean, will still have in her
      coffers the heart (the metaphor to mean genes) of the planet.

       
      PL >
      Qs
      What is the first "Titanic"?......USA?  And could you
      say more about what you mean by the 2nd Titanic
      (India) "will still have
      in her coffers the heart (the metaphor to mean genes) of the
      planet"?
      I think I know what you mean, but not
      sure....
       
       
      In general, what do you imagine the world, with China as the most powerful
      economy,
      will be like?
       
       
      Gratitude, Bhanu.

       
      Namaste,

      Pat  :
      )
      ___________________________________________
      __________________________________________________
       
                   
                               
      May our efforts benefit

                               
      all beings and the earth
               


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bhanu Padmo

      To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
      ; TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
      ; existlist@yahoogroups.com
      ; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com
      ; TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com
      ; greenlogic@yahoogroups.com
      ; esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: 2013-02-22 07:22
      Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] Bhanu:
      Kishore Mahbubani ?

       






      My Dear Pat, Namaste.
       
      (The Story of Second
      Titanic)
       
      I
      am reminded of a joke when one talks about Kishore Mahbubani*s
      recognition of western worth in such terms as *Seven Pillars
      of Western Wisdom* (viz. Free-market economics, Science and
      Technology, Meritocracy, Pragmatism, Culture of Peace, Rule of
      Law, Education).
       
      The joke is this. You (a woman) meet
      somebody (another woman) for whom you develop soon a liking
      for reasons unknown to you and inquire of her some personal
      details. Your fondness for this person ascends as you listen
      to attractive self-descriptions whose plausibility you have
      already assumed. How nice it was to know that this potential
      friend was an artist, a singer, an engineer, a social worker
      and so on! However, she would like to whisper the last point
      about her into your ear, feeling a bit coy over the fact that
      you wouldn*t probably like the last characteristic. And she
      finally tells you that she is in the grip of the habit of
      lying!!
       
      Naturally, you would now be ashamed of
      your altruism of believing the woman as this moral
      retrogression was enough to annul all of her purported
      positive features. The last personal feature whispered into
      your ears is indeed the *absolute retrograde*.
       
      Similarly, what if one or more
      Kishorean Pillars of purported Western Wisdom happens to be a
      socio-culture retrograde? An absolute socio-cultural
      retrograde?
       
      If you take a close look at these
      seven pillars of wisdom, you find each one of them to be a
      composite agent of civilization, not a singular/ elementary
      one. These composites could be riddled with deficiency and
      redundancy.
       
      For example, free market economics can
      not be deemed to be benign at all if it is to implicitly
      acknowledge the in-built vice of encouraging unlimited
      superfluity of choices about the most redundant material
      requirement - at the cost of longevity of our planet (that is
      being deemed to cradle the peak evolution of
      universe).
       
      Science and technology isn*t a lay
      option available unconditionally without a socio-cultural
      prelude and moral-instinctive pre-condition.
       
      An inadequately conceived meritocracy
      runs the risk of being overwhelmed by snobbish vagary of
      education.
       
      Pragmatism contaminated with conceit
      could, if not rectified in time, turn into virtual cannibalism
      at some stage.
       
      Rule of law could turn into a piece of
      deceptive rhetoric if promulgation of law as an integral part
      of national sovereignty was to be devoid of the concern of
      nationalizing wisdom and jurisprudence.
       
      Culture of peace could be a
      redundantly altruist notion if it doesn*t consider any
      objective higher than mere peaceful coexistence.
       
      These seven composite agents of
      civilization need to be resolved into their elementary
      components firstly and then, the retrograde components must be
      isolated and quarantined as germs of apocalypse. The
      identities of individual agents need to be expressed as
      permutation-combination of their elements and any agent with
      in-built retrograde element is to be stricken off.
       
       
      How many of these purported pillars of
      western wisdom will survive this ingenious intellectual
      operation to assign a semblance of dignity and ascribe a
      semblance of superiority to US/ West? In other words, Kishore
      needs to brace up to clear own vision. Because this
      intellectual exercise will also clarify if Kishore-perceived
      American-Western wisdom and image is indeed positive or is
      mostly mistaken. He could have mistaken imposed dignity and
      brute superiority for proof of wisdom abstract.
       
      Kishore*s 
      perception of the East is also equally indiscriminate
      and lopsided. Take the two prominent corners of Eastern
      Hemisphere viz. China and India. He appears to have reckoned
      both equal with respect to respective march to modernity,
      weltanschauug (worldview), actual self-worth, implementation
      of personal freedom, capacity to embrace the West and
      multitude of aspects of civilization Kishore Mahbubani so
      ornately spells. He couldn*t be more wrong.
       
      How can he be expected to be even
      marginally right in this comparative study if he doesn*t have
      and doesn*t look for the cardinal/ absolute index of society/
      culture/ civilization? The easiest and the best one probably
      is the index of crime/ immorality. Has he ever put India on
      crime/ immorality scale? Has he ever witnessed/ imagined the
      ghastliness of the actual Indian social scenario? Or, has he
      again made the mistake of seeing through the warped American
      eye that may discount million socio-cultural deaths of another
      country (third-word country) to capitalize on few conducive/
      selected politicizable cases of purported/ fictitious *human
      right violation* underscoring a lopsided sense of morality and
      justice?
       
      Kishore commits the double-fault of
      overestimating classical West/ US and Modern India, the two
      chameleons. This makes his international perspective
      deficient.
       
      We do appreciate his surmises about
      the foreseeable fall of American pseudo-modernism and rise of
      Asia. But the story that will unfold to vindicate Kishore*s
      surmises is different from the details he conjures up. It is
      the story of the great triangle whose vertices represent
      centers of global civilization of past, present and
      future.
       
      The past had witnessed the greatest
      socio-cultural polarization in the Eastern Hemisphere, in
      India. The present age is still witnessing the highest global
      polarization in the Western Hemisphere, in US/ West. This
      flight of global center from East to West depicted the rise of
      the West and the decline of the East.
       
      The East-to-West flight of global
      socio-cultural center is about to be reversed in near future.
      Kishore*s words seems to be prophetic up to this point. But
      what he has to see further is that the West-to-East flight of
      global socio-cultural polarity would be consummated in China.
      And the credit for this historic phenomenon would go
      exclusively to China.
       
      That is not all. The saddest part of
      the futuristic story is that the Titanic will sink prior to
      this stretch of evolution of history, if an averting magic
      doesn*t occur. The doomed ship is India, the second Titanic.
      And this Titanic, even as she arrives at the bottom of the
      ocean, will still have in her coffers the heart (the metaphor
      to mean genes) of the planet.
       
      How would India be so doomed? - That
      is because of its neo-Indian navigators who still think the
      clean-and-crystalline heaven (iceberg) visible ahead is the
      destination.  
       
      How would China be rewarded with such
      a global glory? - That is because she is the heir apparent to
      pan-Indian socio-cultural legacy, erstwhile global essence,
      because she is thus the inheritor of feline human genes. To
      realize this, you have to look into the transcendental theory
      of evolution that puts civilization as function of national
      genes and that puts national genes as function of metaphysical
      movements. The time-bomb of Buddhist metaphysics have been
      ticking to conflagrate as the winner genes later in
      China.
       
      What is that actual tipping national
      characteristic that would give China an edge over US/ West. It
      is progressive incorporation of higher democracy into national
      constitution. Protraction of disproportionate/ unlimited
      econo-social security is taking epidemic form to gnaw away
      Western Democracy, the iceberg that India wishes to harvest a
      destination from.
       
      Is Chinese success really so succinct?
      - No. It isn*t. It is about to be on the crossroad where it
      will meet the fatal contingency of choosing between the
      Kishore Mahbubani-spelt sevel pillars of western wisdom with
      in-built retrogrades and civil democracy projected by the
      theory of absolute polity.

      (Bhanu Padmo)
      http://www.bhanupadmo.com
      You may reply this thread
      upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/%c2%a0
      as well
      or consign a copy to greenlogic@...  
      for extended discussions.

      --- On Mon,
      2/18/13, Pat Louise Davies <pld@...>
      wrote:


      From: Pat
      Louise Davies <pld@...>
      Subject:
      [Wisdom-l] Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?
      To:
      Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, February 18, 2013,
      7:01 PM



       


       
       
      Hello Bhanu &
      Friends,
       
      Since you and others have some
      interest in political philosopy, Bhanu, I am wondering if
      you are familiar with the writings of Kishore
      Mahbubani?  If so, what are your opinions of his
      ideas?  As you may know, he was the President of the UN
      Security Council 2001-02, and UN Ambassador from
      Singapore.  He was born of
      Indian parents in an impoverished area of Singapore 64 yrs
      ago.
       
      I heard Kishore speak recently @
      Cornell and found his ideas about the need for world
      collaboration interesting; I am currently reading 4 of his
      books.  In his view, the USA's tendency to stay
      stuck focusing on world
      leadership instead of supporting world organizations and
      other means of world collaboration is very problematic &
      unfortunate for the USA now, and going forward.
       
      Kishore's message at the outset
      of his Cornell talk was that there is much pessimism in
      the West, including Europe, whereas many Eastern countries
      are enjoying much rapid successful economic/cultural
      development as a result of being influenced by " The 7
      Pillars of Western Wisdom" (his term which includes free
      market, rule of law, etc...) and are optimistic;  In
      his view, the West is currenty moving away from the 7
      pillars. 
       
      Many points of his Cornell talk are
      laid out in his most recent book published in Feb/13. 
      He discussed the 7 pillars in
      his 2008 book: The New Asian
      Hemisphere.
       
      Your thoughts?
       
      Thanks ~ Namaste,  Pat
      Louise
       
      ____________________________________________________________________
               
                               
                  May
      our efforts benefit

                                
                 all
      beings and the
      earth.         

























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • existlist
      Bhanu, Why not talk to us instead of forwarding emails from other groups? They are difficult to follow. I ve tried. h.
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 28, 2013
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        Bhanu,
        Why not talk to us instead of forwarding emails from other groups? They are difficult to follow. I've tried.

        h.
      • Bhanu Padmo
        hermitcrab, OK, I will surely talk to you (existlist members). The difficulty, I presume, may persist however. That is because of the aspect. The forwarded
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 12, 2013
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          hermitcrab,

          OK, I will surely talk to you (existlist members). The difficulty, I presume, may persist however. That is because of the aspect.

          The forwarded posts, if you have noticed, were essays dealing with a theme then and there. No short chats.

          Next intermittent posts too, though may be directed to one of you, will be short essays. Because of my inability to be present at the internet desk for protracted/ continuous whiles, I won*t be really able to *chat* with you all. You may have to bear with my rather queer procedure.

          (Bhanu)

          --- On Fri, 3/1/13, existlist <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:

          From: existlist <hermitcrab65@...>
          Subject: [existlist] [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, March 1, 2013, 12:50 AM
















           









          Bhanu,

          Why not talk to us instead of forwarding emails from other groups? They are difficult to follow. I've tried.



          h.



























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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