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Fw: Re: [seerseeker] Re: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?

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  • Bhanu Padmo
    ... From: Kyva Holman Subject: Re: [seerseeker] Re: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ? To: seerseeker@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 25, 2013
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      --- On Sun, 2/24/13, Kyva Holman <kyholm7@...> wrote:

      From: Kyva Holman <kyholm7@...>
      Subject: Re: [seerseeker] Re: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?
      To: seerseeker@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 10:26 PM
















       









      thanks, bro. B.  I enjoyed this... mostly because I largely understand it (having peak exp... soooo good) namaste







      -----Original Message-----

      From: Bhanu Padmo <greenbhanu@...>

      To: esotericismspirituality <esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com>; greenlogic <greenlogic@yahoogroups.com>; TheRampaPath <TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com>; seerseeker <seerseeker@yahoogroups.com>; existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>; TheBecoming <TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com>; Wisdom-l <Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com>

      Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 10:44 am

      Subject: [seerseeker] Re: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?





       













      Hi Pat!


       


      Statistical Analysis versus Philosophical Analysis.  I have tried to analyse the notions of *universal national sovereignty* and *absolute/ ideal polity* in the article *Sino-American Relativism …* (to follow). A nation that implements these notions deserves universal/ absolute credit. China seems to be on the path of implementing those key democratic doctrines.


       


      Kishore Mahbubani*s prediction about economic growth of China is statistical or empirical, being a mere futuristic projection of current trend. So is his prediction of further democratization of China. Such observations as **China*s learning from Russia*s bad experience of shifting towards democracy too quickly** can be put in the class of academic retrospective wistful thinking.


       


      Relationship between democracy (democratization) and economy (onset of economic depression) is far more intriguing than what an under-represented Russian story alone could disclose. Mahbubani ought to take advantage of the intellectual prowess of philosophy while carrying out an analysis in these contexts. Simple futuristic projection of current statistical/ empirical information would make it a contingent prediction. In short, the ethos of Mahbubani*s analyses could have been deeper.


       


      Undulating History of China.  Under special conditions, history of a land undulates like a wave. China*s swing from Buddhism to Communism and back to Neo-Communism is an instance of historical undulation. Waves don*t leave permanent marks on surface. We have to be optimistic about political developments in China keeping an eye on its Buddhist backdrop.


       


      The new theory of evolution would vindicate such a stand, because it says that protracted metaphysical subscription would dent the genetics commensurably to sustain the respective psycho-intellectual and socio-moral attributes beyond turbulent times.


       


      About the Titanic-Metaphor, the first Titanic ought to be the actual doomed ship *Titanic*. India is likened to a similar doomed unseemly phenomenon. US will never sink. It will remain afloat because of her intrinsic buoyancy.


       


      Heart of Earth.  To know the *heart of planet*, we may have to sink deeper into the philosophy of mankind. In short : If you imagine disposition of all human genes in human chromosomes, you could see them forming a great hierarchy conforming to the hierarchy of human instincts. The levels of instincts from bottom to top may be grossly reckoned as metabolic, sensual, emotive, intuitive levels etc.   


       


      Evolution of human being is being carried forward through evolution of instinct and instinctive genes. Higher sustained personal inferences precipitate as instincts and instinctive genes which are absorbed into and collated in the pyramid of instincts and the pyramid of instinctive genes respectively. So the wiser sections of mankind evolve faster and the genetics of this race holds deeper clues to human nature and opens wider doors to futurity of mankind.


       


      The wisest race of earth is that has the longest history of act of profound thinking. In that sense, India*s score seems to be impressive. However, assessment of India can be done only after resolving it into its *pan-Indian* and *neo-Indian* constituents. In the garb of the former, the latter has emerged as former*s contrary. Thus even if the net value of present India is nil or negative, its pan-Indian component would suffice to represent the entire planet. For, the pan-Indian (brown Aryan) tribe is the one where emerged hundreds of prophet/ prophet-like personalities viz. Buddha, Krishna, Kapila, Patanjali, Indrabhuti, Padmasambhava, Nagarjuna, Samkara and many more.


       


      (Bhanu Padmo)


      http://www.bhanupadmo.com


      You may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/%c2%a0 as well

      or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended discussions.




      --- On Fri, 2/22/13, Pat Louise Davies <pld@...> wrote:




      From: Pat Louise Davies <pld@...>

      Subject: [Wisdom-l] Questions -- Re: Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?

      To: esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com, greenlogic@yahoogroups.com, TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com, seerseeker@yahoogroups.com, existlist@yahoogroups.com, TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com, Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com

      Date: Friday, February 22, 2013, 8:34 PM







       



      


       




      Bhanu,


       


      Thanks much for your comments about Kishore Mahbubani.  I will be chewing on them.  Meanwhile, I have a few immediate questions below, and a Kishorean quote...


       




      re:


      BP <<< The East-to-West flight of global socio-cultural center is about to be reversed in near future. Kishore*s words seems to be prophetic up to this point. But what he has to see further is that the West-to-East flight of global socio-cultural polarity would be consummated in China. And the credit for this historic phenomenon would go exclusively to China.


       


      PL >  Qs:


       


      "Credit" by whom?  -- What do you mean by "credit for this historic phenomenon would go exclusively to China"? 


       


      In his talk Kishore conveyed his perception that China will probably become the most powerful economy within approx the next decade.  He also stated, as he also does in his Feb 2013 book (The Great Convergence), that China will eventually become more democratic.  At his Cornell talk, Kishore said that China has learned from Russia's bad experience of shifting towards


      democracy too quickly;--- that economic depression would result, as it did with Russia.  He believes that there is currently a very gradual transition towards democracy underway in China.  


      He gave the example of travel by Chinese citizens out and then back into China, for multi-year durations, as a example of this transition. 


       


      Do you agree with any of this?


       


      I realize that those of us who personally know victims of Chinese oppression/violence find the prospect of a more powerful China challenging;  including the challenge of having any faith that Chinese political evoluton could be positive re: human rights;  That said, here is a quote from Convergence:


       


      Nevertheless, a more democratic China will emerge.  The ultimate political destination for China is not in doubt.  It will be an unavoidable choice, especially once China has developed the largest middle class in the world.  The only question is whether America or any other power will ...


      interfer(e) with China's domestic processes.  The temptation to interfere is strong in America. 


      A wiser course is to allow China to develop at its own pace.  By not crossing the red line in this area, America would also help to preserve geopolitical stability.


                                                                                          Convergence, K-Mahbubani, p.157.


       


      Any thoughts?


       


      re:


      BP>>> That is not all. The saddest part of the futuristic story is that the Titanic will sink prior to this stretch of evolution of history, if an averting magic doesn*t occur. The doomed ship is India, the second Titanic. And this Titanic, even as she arrives at the bottom of the ocean, will still have in her coffers the heart (the metaphor to mean genes) of the planet.


       


      PL > Qs


      What is the first "Titanic"?......USA?  And could you say more about what you mean by the 2nd Titanic (India) "will still have in her coffers the heart (the metaphor to mean genes) of the planet"?


      I think I know what you mean, but not sure....


       


       


      In general, what do you imagine the world, with China as the most powerful economy,


      will be like?


       


       


      Gratitude, Bhanu.


       


      Namaste,


      Pat  : )


      ___________________________________________

      __________________________________________________



       


                   

                                May our efforts benefit

                                all beings and the earth



               



      ----- Original Message -----


      From: Bhanu Padmo


      To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com ; TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com ; existlist@yahoogroups.com ; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com ; TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com ; greenlogic@yahoogroups.com ; esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com


      Sent: 2013-02-22 07:22


      Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?





       









      My Dear Pat, Namaste.


       


      (The Story of Second Titanic)


       


      I am reminded of a joke when one talks about Kishore Mahbubani*s recognition of western worth in such terms as *Seven Pillars of Western Wisdom* (viz. Free-market economics, Science and Technology, Meritocracy, Pragmatism, Culture of Peace, Rule of Law, Education).


       


      The joke is this. You (a woman) meet somebody (another woman) for whom you develop soon a liking for reasons unknown to you and inquire of her some personal details. Your fondness for this person ascends as you listen to attractive self-descriptions whose plausibility you have already assumed. How nice it was to know that this potential friend was an artist, a singer, an engineer, a social worker and so on! However, she would like to whisper the last point about her into your ear, feeling a bit coy over the fact that you wouldn*t probably like the last characteristic. And she finally tells you that she is in the grip of the habit of lying!!


       


      Naturally, you would now be ashamed of your altruism of believing the woman as this moral retrogression was enough to annul all of her purported positive features. The last personal feature whispered into your ears is indeed the *absolute retrograde*.


       


      Similarly, what if one or more Kishorean Pillars of purported Western Wisdom happens to be a socio-culture retrograde? An absolute socio-cultural retrograde?


       


      If you take a close look at these seven pillars of wisdom, you find each one of them to be a composite agent of civilization, not a singular/ elementary one. These composites could be riddled with deficiency and redundancy.


       


      For example, free market economics can not be deemed to be benign at all if it is to implicitly acknowledge the in-built vice of encouraging unlimited superfluity of choices about the most redundant material requirement - at the cost of longevity of our planet (that is being deemed to cradle the peak evolution of universe).


       


      Science and technology isn*t a lay option available unconditionally without a socio-cultural prelude and moral-instinctive pre-condition.


       


      An inadequately conceived meritocracy runs the risk of being overwhelmed by snobbish vagary of education.


       


      Pragmatism contaminated with conceit could, if not rectified in time, turn into virtual cannibalism at some stage.


       


      Rule of law could turn into a piece of deceptive rhetoric if promulgation of law as an integral part of national sovereignty was to be devoid of the concern of nationalizing wisdom and jurisprudence.


       


      Culture of peace could be a redundantly altruist notion if it doesn*t consider any objective higher than mere peaceful coexistence.


       


      These seven composite agents of civilization need to be resolved into their elementary components firstly and then, the retrograde components must be isolated and quarantined as germs of apocalypse. The identities of individual agents need to be expressed as permutation-combination of their elements and any agent with in-built retrograde element is to be stricken off.  


       


      How many of these purported pillars of western wisdom will survive this ingenious intellectual operation to assign a semblance of dignity and ascribe a semblance of superiority to US/ West? In other words, Kishore needs to brace up to clear own vision. Because this intellectual exercise will also clarify if Kishore-perceived American-Western wisdom and image is indeed positive or is mostly mistaken. He could have mistaken imposed dignity and brute superiority for proof of wisdom abstract.


       


      Kishore*s  perception of the East is also equally indiscriminate and lopsided. Take the two prominent corners of Eastern Hemisphere viz. China and India. He appears to have reckoned both equal with respect to respective march to modernity, weltanschauug (worldview), actual self-worth, implementation of personal freedom, capacity to embrace the West and multitude of aspects of civilization Kishore Mahbubani so ornately spells. He couldn*t be more wrong.


       


      How can he be expected to be even marginally right in this comparative study if he doesn*t have and doesn*t look for the cardinal/ absolute index of society/ culture/ civilization? The easiest and the best one probably is the index of crime/ immorality. Has he ever put India on crime/ immorality scale? Has he ever witnessed/ imagined the ghastliness of the actual Indian social scenario? Or, has he again made the mistake of seeing through the warped American eye that may discount million socio-cultural deaths of another country (third-word country) to capitalize on few conducive/ selected politicizable cases of purported/ fictitious *human right violation* underscoring a lopsided sense of morality and justice?


       


      Kishore commits the double-fault of overestimating classical West/ US and Modern India, the two chameleons. This makes his international perspective deficient.


       


      We do appreciate his surmises about the foreseeable fall of American pseudo-modernism and rise of Asia. But the story that will unfold to vindicate Kishore*s surmises is different from the details he conjures up. It is the story of the great triangle whose vertices represent centers of global civilization of past, present and future.


       


      The past had witnessed the greatest socio-cultural polarization in the Eastern Hemisphere, in India. The present age is still witnessing the highest global polarization in the Western Hemisphere, in US/ West. This flight of global center from East to West depicted the rise of the West and the decline of the East.


       


      The East-to-West flight of global socio-cultural center is about to be reversed in near future. Kishore*s words seems to be prophetic up to this point. But what he has to see further is that the West-to-East flight of global socio-cultural polarity would be consummated in China. And the credit for this historic phenomenon would go exclusively to China.


       


      That is not all. The saddest part of the futuristic story is that the Titanic will sink prior to this stretch of evolution of history, if an averting magic doesn*t occur. The doomed ship is India, the second Titanic. And this Titanic, even as she arrives at the bottom of the ocean, will still have in her coffers the heart (the metaphor to mean genes) of the planet.


       


      How would India be so doomed? - That is because of its neo-Indian navigators who still think the clean-and-crystalline heaven (iceberg) visible ahead is the destination.  


       


      How would China be rewarded with such a global glory? - That is because she is the heir apparent to pan-Indian socio-cultural legacy, erstwhile global essence, because she is thus the inheritor of feline human genes. To realize this, you have to look into the transcendental theory of evolution that puts civilization as function of national genes and that puts national genes as function of metaphysical movements. The time-bomb of Buddhist metaphysics have been ticking to conflagrate as the winner genes later in China.


       


      What is that actual tipping national characteristic that would give China an edge over US/ West. It is progressive incorporation of higher democracy into national constitution. Protraction of disproportionate/ unlimited econo-social security is taking epidemic form to gnaw away Western Democracy, the iceberg that India wishes to harvest a destination from.


       


      Is Chinese success really so succinct? - No. It isn*t. It is about to be on the crossroad where it will meet the fatal contingency of choosing between the Kishore Mahbubani-spelt sevel pillars of western wisdom with in-built retrogrades and civil democracy projected by the theory of absolute polity.




      (Bhanu Padmo)


      http://www.bhanupadmo.com


      You may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/%c2%a0 as well

      or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended discussions.




      --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Pat Louise Davies <pld@...> wrote:




      From: Pat Louise Davies <pld@...>

      Subject: [Wisdom-l] Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?

      To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com

      Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 7:01 PM







       






       


       


      Hello Bhanu & Friends,


       


      Since you and others have some interest in political philosopy, Bhanu, I am wondering if you are familiar with the writings of Kishore Mahbubani?  If so, what are your opinions of his ideas?  As you may know, he was the President of the UN Security Council 2001-02, and UN Ambassador from Singapore.  He was born of Indian parents in an impoverished area of Singapore 64 yrs ago.


       


      I heard Kishore speak recently @ Cornell and found his ideas about the need for world collaboration interesting; I am currently reading 4 of his books.  In his view, the USA's tendency to stay stuck focusing on world leadership instead of supporting world organizations and other means of world collaboration is very problematic & unfortunate for the USA now, and going forward.


       


      Kishore's message at the outset of his Cornell talk was that there is much pessimism in the West, including Europe, whereas many Eastern countries are enjoying much rapid successful economic/cultural development as a result of being influenced by " The 7 Pillars of Western Wisdom" (his term which includes free market, rule of law, etc...) and are optimistic;  In his view, the West is currenty moving away from the 7 pillars. 


       


      Many points of his Cornell talk are laid out in his most recent book published in Feb/13.  He discussed the 7 pillars in his 2008 book: The New Asian Hemisphere.


       


      Your thoughts?


       


      Thanks ~ Namaste,  Pat Louise


       


      ____________________________________________________________________

               

                                            May our efforts benefit

                                            all beings and the earth.         









































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