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Re: Salvation or Deliverance

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  • devindersingh
    Oh! civilisation. Polite conversations, Following gang-bangs!
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 13, 2013
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      Oh! civilisation.
      Polite conversations,
      Following gang-bangs!

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
      >
      > In your copy/paste you omitted the important starting sentence of ....
      >
      > "ONE has forgotten. From the fact of separation from Sat-Chit-Ananda comes
      > forgetfulness of what one is. "
      >
      > Actually, this whole exercise is pointless. All you are doing is to do a
      > search on the Sri Aurobindo Ashram site and the pasting the answer on
      > Existlist. It's pointless, since I could do the same. You are not
      > answering my questions. There is no discussion here.
      >
      > eduard
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: devindersingh
      > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:04 PM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [existlist] Re: Salvation or Deliverance
      >
      > You believe you are, does not matter what, a boy, a girl, a man, a woman, a
      > dog, a horse, anything: a stone, the sea or the sun. You think you are all
      > that, instead of thinking that you are the One Divine. Indeed, if you had
      > continued to think that you are the One Divine, there would have been no
      > universe at all. The phenomenon of separation seems to have been
      > indispensable, otherwise it would have remained always as it was.
      > But once the curve has been followed up and the Unity re-established, having
      > profited by the multiplicity and division, the Unity found is of a higher
      > quality: a Unity that knows itself, instead of a unity that does not know
      > itself, for there is nothing else there which knows the other. Where the
      > Unity is absolute, who or what can know the Unity? Hence the need of the
      > appearance of something which is not that, in order to know what it is.
      > The original Will was towards forming individual beings that would be
      > capable of becoming conscious again of their origin, although the procedure
      > of individualisation compelled the individual to feel itself separate in
      > order to be an individual. And the very moment it is separated, it is cut
      > off from the original Consciousness, at least apparently, and falls into
      > inconscience, for the only thing that is the Life of life is the Origin.
      > It is this inconscience that brings it about that you are not aware any
      > longer of the Truth of your being. The secret of all deformation in the
      > world is this inconscience which has been produced by the fact of separation
      > from the Origin. And that explains why there are ugliness, wickedness,
      > illness, suffering and death. It is because of this inconscience that
      > although the Origin is there, it cannot manifest itself. It is there, that
      > is why the world exists, but it is deformed in its expression, because it
      > manifests itself through inconscience, ignorance and obscurity.
      > The only way to set everything right is to be conscious again and it is very
      > simple.
      > You are That, you are in That.
      > To make you understand more easily, I may say, That is within us, That is
      > part of our consciousness somewhere. Otherwise we would never be able to be
      > conscious of it. If we did not carry the Divine within ourselves, in the
      > essence of our being, we would never be aware of Him, it would be an
      > impossible task.
      > There is only one thing to be found, not two.
      > If one goes round long enough one must come back to the same point. And once
      > you come back, you have the impression that there was never anything to find
      > outside. Yes, it is like that, there is nothing to find outside yourself.
      > [http://sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Nolini%20Kanta%20Gupta/Volume-4/-047_The%20Origin.htm]
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
      > >
      > > Your statements here are most difficult to follow.
      > >
      > > First you say that there is "severe collectivism", then the birth of
      > > intransigent individualism. The pendulum swings. So you end up with the
      > > "herd instinct" which I suppose is back to "severe collectivism".
      > >
      > > Human society is not that simplistic. You would have to ignore some
      > > historical figures [depending upon what you mean by "past ages] who were
      > > individualists. You would also have to ignore religions which are
      > > collective and continue to be.
      > >
      > > Then you totally lost me with, "... the demand of the individual soul to
      > > unite with the individual soul, ...". How can a soul [assuming that such
      > > actually exists] demand to be united with itself?? Why should it make
      > > such
      > > a demand??
      > >
      > > eduard
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: devindersingh
      > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:15 AM
      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Salvation or Deliverance
      > >
      > > The past ages of society were characterised more or less by a severe
      > > collectivism. In ancient Greece, more so in Sparta and in Rome, the
      > > individual had, properly speaking, no separate existence of his own; he
      > > was
      > > merged in the State or Nation. The individual was considered only as a
      > > limb
      > > of the collective being, had to live and labour for the common weal. The
      > > value attached to each person was strictly in reference to the output that
      > > the group to which he belonged received from him. Apart from this service
      > > for the general unit-the body politic-any personal endeavour and
      > > achievement, if not absolutely discouraged and repressed, was given a very
      > > secondary place of merit.
      > > The individual has his own law and urge of being and his own secret
      > > godhead.
      > > The collective godhead derides the individual godhead at its peril. The
      > > first movement of the reaction, how­ever, was a run to the other
      > > extremity;
      > > a stern collectivism gave birth to an intransigent individualism. The
      > > individual is sacred and inviolable, cost what it may. It does not matter
      > > what sort of individuality one seeks, it is enough if the thing is there.
      > > So
      > > the doctrine of individualism has come to set a premium on egoism and on
      > > forces that are disruptive of all social bonds. Each and every individual
      > > has the inherent right, which is also a duty, to follow his own impetus
      > > and
      > > impulse. Society is nothing but the battle ground for competing
      > > indi­vidualities â€" the strongest survive and the weakest go to the
      > > wall.
      > > Association and co-operation are instruments that the individual may use
      > > and
      > > utilise for his own growth and development but in the main they act as
      > > deterrents rather than as aids to the expression and expansion of his
      > > characteristic being. In reality, however, if we probe sufficiently deep
      > > into the matter we find that there is no such thing as corporate life and
      > > activity; what appears as such is only a camouflage for rigorous
      > > competition; at the best, there maybe only an offensive and defensive
      > > alliance-humanity fights against nature, and within humanity itself group
      > > fights against group and in the last analysis, within the group, the
      > > individual fights against the individual. This is the ultimate Law-the
      > > Dharma of creation.
      > > Now, what such an uncompromising individualism fails to recognise is that
      > > individuality and ego are not the same thing, that the individual may have
      > > his individuality intact and entire and yet sacrifice his ego, that the
      > > soul
      > > of man is a much greater thing than his vital being. It is simply ignoring
      > > the fact and denying the truth to say that man is only a fighting animal
      > > and
      > > not a loving god, that the self within the individual realises itself only
      > > through competition and not co-operation. It is an error to conceive of
      > > society as a mere parallelogram of forces, to suppose that it has risen
      > > simply out of the struggle of individual interests and continues to remain
      > > by that struggle. Struggle is only one aspect of the thing, a particular
      > > form at a particular stage, a temporary manifestation due to a particular
      > > system and a particular habit and training. It would be nearer the truth
      > > to
      > > say that society came into being with the demand of the individual soul to
      > > unite with the individual soul, with the stress of an Over-soul to express
      > > itself in a multitude of forms, diverse yet linked together and organised
      > > in
      > > perfect harmony. Only, the stress for union manifested itself first on the
      > > material plane as struggle: but this is meant to be corrected and
      > > transcended and is being continually corrected and transcended by a secret
      > > harmony, a real commonality and brotherhood and unity. The individual is
      > > not
      > > so self-centred as the individualists make him to be, his individuality
      > > has
      > > a much vaster orbit and fulfils itself only by fulfilling others. The
      > > scientists have begun to discover other instincts in man than those of
      > > struggle and competition; they now place at the origin of social grouping
      > > an
      > > instinct which they name the herd-instinct: but this is only a formulation
      > > in lower terms, a translation on the vital plane of a higher truth and
      > > reality-the fundamental oneness and accord of individuals and their
      > > spiritual impulsion to unite.
      > > [http://sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Nolini%20Kanta%20Gupta/Volume-1/-06_On%20Communism.html]
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Eduard,
      > > > In India we live with this knowledge...The water Buffalo loves to wallow
      > > > in the mud. We let it revel.
      > > >
      > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Say, what???
      > > > > >Eduard, this the sort of gibberish that we will get from this guy. It
      > > > > >ia about as relevant to modernism as is the news about the pope.
      > > > > >These
      > > > > >throwbacks to religion will just fade. Now most of the catholics are
      > > > > >in the poor ,southern hemisphere. I think the buddists will be run
      > > > > >over
      > > > > >by the more agressive Islamists or the Chinese Communists. At any
      > > > > >rate
      > > > > >it will take centuries and we would do better to ignore them and
      > > > > >tend
      > > > > >to the business of northern man. Ignore is the operant word as
      > > > > >trying
      > > > > >to deal with religous fanatics just does not pay off. Set them
      > > > > >against
      > > > > >themselves and go about building a better world here in our homes.
      > > > > >The islamists Hindus and Chinese are wildly over breed and will
      > > > > >kill
      > > > > >each other for food and fuel. Our populations are under control and
      > > > > >our
      > > > > >food and energy needs are being met. Let them deal with each other
      > > > > >and
      > > > > >we will deal with them only at a profit. Listening to their ancient
      > > > > >and losing ideas is only a waste of time. Bill
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
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