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Re: Building the perfect beast

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  • Mary
    I agree, Bill, that this is a problem and a project which deserves knowledgeable commitment. Here s what the Obama administration is currently doing, and you
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 13, 2013
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      I agree, Bill, that this is a problem and a project which deserves knowledgeable commitment. Here's what the Obama administration is currently doing, and you can let them know your special concern regarding this issue.

      http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/veterans

      Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
      >
      > It seems to have started in the sixties. Police forces began building specialised riot squads ostensibly to defend against radicals from the left. They began as military trained riot troops with bayonetts and high powered rifles. After Kent State this prescription was changed as shooting college students just did not sell. So these sort of police split into the truncheon wielding , shield carring riot troops and the para military SWAT squads. We now have both kinds with the para militaries often peopled by former military who have particularly violent methods.
      > Just as the rogue officer in Southern california these officers are double trained as military and as police. These are very dangerous individuals who can inflict massive damage . They are also the people who come back from war with a great deal of post traumatic stress. They get very little civilian repatraition as they leave the service and join police departments with troubles related to their military pasts. They would join the guard and some could relate to this lower order of militarisation but many could not. Reassimilation of combat personell should be as rigorious as training for combat. Psychological evaluation , job training and placement are just ignored. Moving from combat to police work needs retraining and holding police rank and reserve rank without such retraining courts particular dangers. Police work and soldiering are not the same things. Even Military Police and civilian police are very different matters.
      > So I think the military has a duty to deprogram the poeople they have trained and the police have a duty to retrain entering officers when they have had combat backgrounds. This is a matter of public saftey just as getting drunks off the roads or stoping cyber criminals. One kind of soldier does not replace another sort without retraining. I am not saying soldiers should not become police . They must become civilians and then must be retrained to become police. If this is not recognised we will see more tragedy from these last returning troops. I do not want it to be harder for them, I want them to suceed and carry on with happy lives. This takes more guidance than we now provide. Bill
      >
    • William
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 13, 2013
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
        >
        > I agree, Bill, that this is a problem and a project which deserves knowledgeable commitment. Here's what the Obama administration is currently doing, and you can let them know your special concern regarding this issue.
        >
        > http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/veterans
        >
        > Mary
        >Mary, The White House seems to understand the problems and funding will tell the tale. I sat in bars with Nam veterans and they were forgotten and hated. They became bitter and many landed in jail or worse. It was the same after WW2 , war has bad effects long after the fighting has stopped. Many of these soldiers were job motovated,they couldnt get a job so they went to war. Boom and bust economics were behind these peoples problems and as I listened to Rubio last night I heard the old republican demand for a return to trickle down economics. The republicans have new faces but the same old ideas. It boils down to a huge defense budget and low taxes for the wealthy. If our fellow citizens can keep seeing threogh this facade we can recover and prosper. Otherwise the military will gin up wars and we will cycle between huge war budgets and bust economics. We need to stay out of adventurous wars and drastically reduce defense expenditures. A clever politician can lie faster than most people can comprehend. It looks as if Hagel will make it as Sec of defense. I really do not trust him to make the kind of cuts we need but Obama seems to think he will do the better thing. I hope he is right as the rest of our lives will be affected by how much we squander on worthless weapons systems and outmoded troop demands. If Hegel is the trojan horse we will cycle again and out entire lives will be primarily tilted toward war and weapons. Give us a break! Bill
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
        > >
        > > It seems to have started in the sixties. Police forces began building specialised riot squads ostensibly to defend against radicals from the left. They began as military trained riot troops with bayonetts and high powered rifles. After Kent State this prescription was changed as shooting college students just did not sell. So these sort of police split into the truncheon wielding , shield carring riot troops and the para military SWAT squads. We now have both kinds with the para militaries often peopled by former military who have particularly violent methods.
        > > Just as the rogue officer in Southern california these officers are double trained as military and as police. These are very dangerous individuals who can inflict massive damage . They are also the people who come back from war with a great deal of post traumatic stress. They get very little civilian repatraition as they leave the service and join police departments with troubles related to their military pasts. They would join the guard and some could relate to this lower order of militarisation but many could not. Reassimilation of combat personell should be as rigorious as training for combat. Psychological evaluation , job training and placement are just ignored. Moving from combat to police work needs retraining and holding police rank and reserve rank without such retraining courts particular dangers. Police work and soldiering are not the same things. Even Military Police and civilian police are very different matters.
        > > So I think the military has a duty to deprogram the poeople they have trained and the police have a duty to retrain entering officers when they have had combat backgrounds. This is a matter of public saftey just as getting drunks off the roads or stoping cyber criminals. One kind of soldier does not replace another sort without retraining. I am not saying soldiers should not become police . They must become civilians and then must be retrained to become police. If this is not recognised we will see more tragedy from these last returning troops. I do not want it to be harder for them, I want them to suceed and carry on with happy lives. This takes more guidance than we now provide. Bill
        > >
        >
      • eduardathome
        I don t think it started in the 60s with riot trained troops. It started when the population convinced politicians that they could get voted in on a security
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 13, 2013
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          I don't think it started in the 60s with riot trained troops. It started
          when the population convinced politicians that they could get voted in on a
          security ticket. And it also helped that money was flowing like water. But
          mainly it was that the silent majority felt that it was under threat. So
          the police responded as they thought appropriate. It's amazing how much
          equipment and personnel they can put on the street when there is an
          incident.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: William
          Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:30 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [existlist] Building the perfect beast

          It seems to have started in the sixties. Police forces began building
          specialised riot squads ostensibly to defend against radicals from the
          left. They began as military trained riot troops with bayonetts and high
          powered rifles. After Kent State this prescription was changed as shooting
          college students just did not sell. So these sort of police split into the
          truncheon wielding , shield carring riot troops and the para military SWAT
          squads. We now have both kinds with the para militaries often peopled by
          former military who have particularly violent methods.
          Just as the rogue officer in Southern california these officers are double
          trained as military and as police. These are very dangerous individuals who
          can inflict massive damage . They are also the people who come back from
          war with a great deal of post traumatic stress. They get very little
          civilian repatraition as they leave the service and join police departments
          with troubles related to their military pasts. They would join the guard
          and some could relate to this lower order of militarisation but many could
          not. Reassimilation of combat personell should be as rigorious as training
          for combat. Psychological evaluation , job training and placement are just
          ignored. Moving from combat to police work needs retraining and holding
          police rank and reserve rank without such retraining courts particular
          dangers. Police work and soldiering are not the same things. Even Military
          Police and civilian police are very different matters.
          So I think the military has a duty to deprogram the poeople they have
          trained and the police have a duty to retrain entering officers when they
          have had combat backgrounds. This is a matter of public saftey just as
          getting drunks off the roads or stoping cyber criminals. One kind of soldier
          does not replace another sort without retraining. I am not saying soldiers
          should not become police . They must become civilians and then must be
          retrained to become police. If this is not recognised we will see more
          tragedy from these last returning troops. I do not want it to be harder for
          them, I want them to suceed and carry on with happy lives. This takes more
          guidance than we now provide. Bill



          ------------------------------------

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          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        • Mary
          I think Bill has nailed down the time frame. We had one group of citizens voicing dissent and another group acting to stop them. When Nixon called on the
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 14, 2013
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            I think Bill has nailed down the time frame. We had one group of citizens voicing dissent and another group acting to stop them. When Nixon called on the Silent Majority to support him it was the Justice Dept. which responded. SWAT teams and riot police began at that time whether their funding increased over time or not. The law and order folks were nothing new, but as conservatives gained power they simply got more funding. No mystery there. It was the merging of military with federal, state, and local law enforcement and usurpation of democratic values. That expansion has virtually ended dissent as an effective tool for change and forced it into an expensive and slow legal system.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
            >
            > I don't think it started in the 60s with riot trained troops. It started
            > when the population convinced politicians that they could get voted in on a
            > security ticket. And it also helped that money was flowing like water. But
            > mainly it was that the silent majority felt that it was under threat. So
            > the police responded as they thought appropriate. It's amazing how much
            > equipment and personnel they can put on the street when there is an
            > incident.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: William
            > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:30 PM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [existlist] Building the perfect beast
            >
            > It seems to have started in the sixties. Police forces began building
            > specialised riot squads ostensibly to defend against radicals from the
            > left. They began as military trained riot troops with bayonetts and high
            > powered rifles. After Kent State this prescription was changed as shooting
            > college students just did not sell. So these sort of police split into the
            > truncheon wielding , shield carring riot troops and the para military SWAT
            > squads. We now have both kinds with the para militaries often peopled by
            > former military who have particularly violent methods.
            > Just as the rogue officer in Southern california these officers are double
            > trained as military and as police. These are very dangerous individuals who
            > can inflict massive damage . They are also the people who come back from
            > war with a great deal of post traumatic stress. They get very little
            > civilian repatraition as they leave the service and join police departments
            > with troubles related to their military pasts. They would join the guard
            > and some could relate to this lower order of militarisation but many could
            > not. Reassimilation of combat personell should be as rigorious as training
            > for combat. Psychological evaluation , job training and placement are just
            > ignored. Moving from combat to police work needs retraining and holding
            > police rank and reserve rank without such retraining courts particular
            > dangers. Police work and soldiering are not the same things. Even Military
            > Police and civilian police are very different matters.
            > So I think the military has a duty to deprogram the poeople they have
            > trained and the police have a duty to retrain entering officers when they
            > have had combat backgrounds. This is a matter of public saftey just as
            > getting drunks off the roads or stoping cyber criminals. One kind of soldier
            > does not replace another sort without retraining. I am not saying soldiers
            > should not become police . They must become civilians and then must be
            > retrained to become police. If this is not recognised we will see more
            > tragedy from these last returning troops. I do not want it to be harder for
            > them, I want them to suceed and carry on with happy lives. This takes more
            > guidance than we now provide. Bill
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
            >
            > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
            >
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