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Re: Existentialist Concepts?

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  • devindersingh
    would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose. Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called Existentialists . I think
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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      would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
      Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called "Existentialists". I think not.
      > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of experience.
      This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
      The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga Psychology based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".

      Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University of philosophical research in Los Angeles:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
      > >
      > > Existentialist Concepts?
      > >
      > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes decisions. Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't seem to be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else is acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything, and I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with? Mary ]
      > >
      > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed by an ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time. I read them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and downright bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one concept – I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated way, when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you like the gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
      > >
      > > Dick Richardson
      > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill
      >
    • eduardathome
      [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called Existentialists . I think not. ] If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning??
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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        [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
        "Existentialists". I think not. ]

        If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this the
        meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this mean to
        me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has meaning
        if this is not a meaning for the individual.

        So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is the
        meaning.

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: devindersingh
        Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?



        would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
        Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
        "Existentialists". I think not.
        > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way
        > of experience.
        This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
        The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
        published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga Psychology
        based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".

        Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University of
        philosophical research in Los Angeles:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
        > >
        > > Existentialist Concepts?
        > >
        > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes decisions.
        > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't seem to
        > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else is
        > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything, and
        > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
        > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with? Mary ]
        > >
        > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed by an
        > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
        > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time. I read
        > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and downright
        > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one concept –
        > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of
        > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated way,
        > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
        > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
        > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you like the
        > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
        > >
        > > Dick Richardson
        > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise
        > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our
        > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill
        >



        ------------------------------------

        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
      • devindersingh
        The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of matter which emerges
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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          The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
          evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
          matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
          mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
          the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
          emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
          emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
          to release the spirit in all things.

          Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
          Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
          all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
          previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
          already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
          emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
          emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
          each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
          plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
          emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
          not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
          What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
          consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
          That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
          sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousness—the
          consciousness of other beings and things in the world—are
          apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
          emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
          consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
          the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
          mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
          physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
          Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
          consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
          separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
          ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
          more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
          consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
          direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
          consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
          it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
          consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
          cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
          cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
          one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
          other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
          moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
          1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
          The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
          evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
          ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
          eduardathome wrote:
          >
          > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
          > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
          >
          > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
          the
          > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
          mean to
          > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
          meaning
          > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
          >
          > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
          the
          > meaning.
          >
          > eduard
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: devindersingh
          > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
          >
          >
          >
          > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
          > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
          > "Existentialists". I think not.
          > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
          the way
          > > of experience.
          > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
          > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
          > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
          Psychology
          > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
          >
          > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
          of
          > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
          >
          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Existentialist Concepts?
          > > >
          > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
          decisions.
          > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
          seem to
          > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
          is
          > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
          and
          > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
          > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
          Mary ]
          > > >
          > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
          by an
          > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
          > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
          I read
          > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
          downright
          > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
          concept â€"
          > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
          way of
          > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
          way,
          > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
          > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
          > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
          like the
          > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
          > > >
          > > > Dick Richardson
          > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
          concise
          > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
          on our
          > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
          Bill



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mary
          This is a gross misrepresentation of both Camus and the body of existentialist thinking. Camus logic of the absurd is not meaninglessness, and other writers
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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            This is a gross misrepresentation of both Camus and the body of existentialist thinking. Camus' logic of the absurd is not meaninglessness, and other writers do not insist that life is without significance. They offer differing views, but on the whole express that each person creates meaning through their choices and actions. Just as authentic persons may choose their given culture after thoughtful consideration, they may also accept its given meaning. However, the freedom and responsibility to accept and/or create belongs to each person.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" wrote:

            > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose. Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called "Existentialists". I think not.
          • devindersingh
            I have simply taken from what is put out by the existlist owner in the FAQ LINKS. He however does tell us his material does not serve as a study list for
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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              I have simply taken from what is put out by the existlist owner in the FAQ LINKS. He however does tell us his material does not serve as a study list for existentialism. I can go along with your clarification though I do see there is no unanimity about authenticity either.

              It means then, my submission is a genuine existentialist idea.

              Gulati

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
              >
              > This is a gross misrepresentation of both Camus and the body of existentialist thinking. Camus' logic of the absurd is not meaninglessness, and other writers do not insist that life is without significance. They offer differing views, but on the whole express that each person creates meaning through their choices and actions. Just as authentic persons may choose their given culture after thoughtful consideration, they may also accept its given meaning. However, the freedom and responsibility to accept and/or create belongs to each person.
              >
              > Mary
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" wrote:
              >
              > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose. Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called "Existentialists". I think not.
              >
            • eduardathome
              [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual evolution] In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already know that
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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                [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual evolution]

                In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already know
                that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a cosmic
                consciousness.

                That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                individual??

                If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?


                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: devindersingh
                Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?

                The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                to release the spirit in all things.

                Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousness—the
                consciousness of other beings and things in the world—are
                apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                eduardathome wrote:
                >
                > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                >
                > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                the
                > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                mean to
                > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                meaning
                > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                >
                > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                the
                > meaning.
                >
                > eduard
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: devindersingh
                > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                >
                >
                >
                > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                > "Existentialists". I think not.
                > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                the way
                > > of experience.
                > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                Psychology
                > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                >
                > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                of
                > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                >
                > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                > > >
                > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                decisions.
                > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                seem to
                > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                is
                > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                and
                > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                Mary ]
                > > >
                > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                by an
                > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                I read
                > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                downright
                > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                concept â€"
                > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                way of
                > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                way,
                > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                like the
                > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                > > >
                > > > Dick Richardson
                > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                concise
                > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                on our
                > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                Bill



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
              • devindersingh
                There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the spirit
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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                  There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                  evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised, perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking, and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                  [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                  According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis. And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                  Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                  [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                  >
                  > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual evolution]
                  >
                  > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already know
                  > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a cosmic
                  > consciousness.
                  >
                  > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                  > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                  > individual??
                  >
                  > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                  > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                  > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                  >
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: devindersingh
                  > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                  >
                  > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                  > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                  > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                  > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                  > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                  > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                  > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                  > to release the spirit in all things.
                  >
                  > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                  > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                  > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                  > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                  > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                  > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                  > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                  > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                  > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                  > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                  > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                  > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                  > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                  > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                  > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                  > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                  > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                  > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                  > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                  > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                  > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                  > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                  > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                  > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                  > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                  > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                  > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                  > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                  > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                  > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                  > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                  > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                  > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                  > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                  > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                  > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                  > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                  > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                  > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                  > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                  > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                  > eduardathome wrote:
                  > >
                  > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                  > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                  > >
                  > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                  > the
                  > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                  > mean to
                  > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                  > meaning
                  > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                  > >
                  > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                  > the
                  > > meaning.
                  > >
                  > > eduard
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: devindersingh
                  > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                  > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                  > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                  > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                  > the way
                  > > > of experience.
                  > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                  > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                  > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                  > Psychology
                  > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                  > >
                  > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                  > of
                  > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                  > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                  > >
                  > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                  > decisions.
                  > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                  > seem to
                  > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                  > is
                  > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                  > and
                  > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                  > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                  > Mary ]
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                  > by an
                  > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                  > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                  > I read
                  > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                  > downright
                  > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                  > concept â€"
                  > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                  > way of
                  > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                  > way,
                  > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                  > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                  > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                  > like the
                  > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Dick Richardson
                  > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                  > concise
                  > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                  > on our
                  > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                  > Bill
                • Dick.
                  You are WRONG. Conscious experience is a part of what we ARE. But you rely on beliefs and what you THINK as the arbiter of truth. And which is idiotic rubbish
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You are WRONG. Conscious experience is a part of what we ARE. But you rely on beliefs and what you THINK as the arbiter of truth. And which is idiotic rubbish and diatribe. You do not exist because you think and believe that you exist. And religion has plainly fucked America up good and proper. Brainwashed to the core. I did read that ages ago by the way.

                    Dick Richardson


                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                    >

                    > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill
                    >
                  • eduardathome
                    [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit s self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination] One could very well
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 9, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and
                      self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination]

                      One could very well propose that there is an evolution of humanity [assuming
                      we will last much longer to actually evolve further], since we already know
                      that is what is happening.

                      But your previous statement was that there is a meaning in the cosmos. So,
                      what is that meaning??

                      If the meaning is that humans should arise and somehow reach a level of
                      divine being ... why?? Did the cosmos in its origin of the Big Bang also at
                      the time have a focus upon a humanity which would not appear for another 12
                      billion years or so??

                      eduard

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: devindersingh
                      Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:37 PM
                      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?

                      There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire
                      process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the
                      spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                      evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial
                      developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the
                      spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness
                      is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already
                      occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later
                      consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they
                      imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved
                      consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve
                      into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards
                      Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the
                      plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the
                      same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and
                      divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised,
                      perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking,
                      and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its
                      secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                      [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                      According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a
                      possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which
                      the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that
                      condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the
                      individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can
                      come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that
                      the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is
                      bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis.
                      And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                      Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an
                      evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free
                      choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point
                      where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life
                      of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is
                      striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the
                      civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason
                      and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the
                      larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative
                      possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is
                      possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific
                      and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be
                      created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if
                      not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of
                      existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the
                      power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a
                      framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human
                      spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can
                      continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but
                      find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in
                      which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those
                      of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                      [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                      >
                      > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                      > evolution]
                      >
                      > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already
                      > know
                      > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a
                      > cosmic
                      > consciousness.
                      >
                      > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                      > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                      > individual??
                      >
                      > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                      > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                      > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                      >
                      >
                      > eduard
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: devindersingh
                      > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                      >
                      > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                      > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                      > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                      > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                      > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                      > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                      > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                      > to release the spirit in all things.
                      >
                      > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                      > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                      > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                      > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                      > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                      > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                      > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                      > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                      > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                      > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                      > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                      > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                      > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                      > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                      > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                      > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                      > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                      > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                      > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                      > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                      > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                      > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                      > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                      > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                      > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                      > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                      > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                      > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                      > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                      > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                      > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                      > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                      > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                      > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                      > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                      > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                      > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                      > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                      > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                      > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                      > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                      > eduardathome wrote:
                      > >
                      > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                      > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                      > >
                      > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                      > the
                      > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                      > mean to
                      > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                      > meaning
                      > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                      > >
                      > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                      > the
                      > > meaning.
                      > >
                      > > eduard
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: devindersingh
                      > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                      > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                      > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                      > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                      > the way
                      > > > of experience.
                      > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                      > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                      > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                      > Psychology
                      > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                      > >
                      > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                      > of
                      > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                      > >
                      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                      > decisions.
                      > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                      > seem to
                      > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                      > is
                      > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                      > and
                      > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                      > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                      > Mary ]
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                      > by an
                      > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                      > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                      > I read
                      > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                      > downright
                      > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                      > concept â€"
                      > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                      > way of
                      > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                      > way,
                      > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                      > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                      > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                      > like the
                      > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Dick Richardson
                      > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                      > concise
                      > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                      > on our
                      > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                      > Bill




                      ------------------------------------

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                    • devindersingh
                      The origin, the continent, the initial and the ultimate reality of all that is in the cosmos is the triune principle of transcendent and infinite Existence,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 9, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The origin, the continent, the initial and the ultimate reality of all that is in the cosmos is the triune principle of transcendent and infinite Existence, Consciousness and Bliss which is the nature of divine being. Consciousness has two aspects, illuminating and effective, state and power of self-awareness and state and power of self-force, by which Being possesses itself whether in its static condition or in its dynamic movement; for in its creative action it knows by omnipotent self-consciousness all that is latent within it and produces and governs the universe of its potentialities by an omniscient self-energy. The creation depends on and moves between the biune principle of unity and multiplicity; it is a manifoldness of idea and force and form which is the expression of an original unity, and it is an eternal oneness which is the foundation and reality of the multiple worlds and makes their play possible.
                        Then we perceive that our existence is a sort of refraction of the divine existence, in inverted order of ascent and descent, thus ranged,—
                        Existence Matter
                        Consciousness-Force Life
                        Bliss Psyche
                        Supermind Mind.
                        The Divine descends from pure existence through the play of Consciousness-Force and Bliss and the creative medium of Supermind into cosmic being; we ascend from Matter through a developing life, soul and mind and the illuminating medium of Supermind towards the divine being.
                        [http://search.sriaurobindoashram.info/Document.aspx?uri=http://sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English/-01_SABCL/-18_The%20Life%20Divine_Volume-18/-28_The%20Sevenfold%20Chord%20of%20Being%20.htm]
                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                        >
                        > [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and
                        > self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination]
                        >
                        > One could very well propose that there is an evolution of humanity [assuming
                        > we will last much longer to actually evolve further], since we already know
                        > that is what is happening.
                        >
                        > But your previous statement was that there is a meaning in the cosmos. So,
                        > what is that meaning??
                        >
                        > If the meaning is that humans should arise and somehow reach a level of
                        > divine being ... why?? Did the cosmos in its origin of the Big Bang also at
                        > the time have a focus upon a humanity which would not appear for another 12
                        > billion years or so??
                        >
                        > eduard
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: devindersingh
                        > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:37 PM
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                        >
                        > There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire
                        > process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the
                        > spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                        > evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial
                        > developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the
                        > spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness
                        > is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already
                        > occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later
                        > consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they
                        > imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved
                        > consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve
                        > into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards
                        > Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the
                        > plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the
                        > same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and
                        > divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised,
                        > perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking,
                        > and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its
                        > secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                        > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                        > According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a
                        > possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which
                        > the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that
                        > condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the
                        > individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can
                        > come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that
                        > the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is
                        > bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis.
                        > And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                        > Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an
                        > evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free
                        > choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point
                        > where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life
                        > of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is
                        > striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the
                        > civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason
                        > and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the
                        > larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative
                        > possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is
                        > possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific
                        > and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be
                        > created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if
                        > not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of
                        > existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the
                        > power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a
                        > framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human
                        > spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can
                        > continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but
                        > find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in
                        > which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those
                        > of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                        > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                        > >
                        > > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                        > > evolution]
                        > >
                        > > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already
                        > > know
                        > > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a
                        > > cosmic
                        > > consciousness.
                        > >
                        > > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                        > > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                        > > individual??
                        > >
                        > > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                        > > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                        > > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > eduard
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: devindersingh
                        > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                        > >
                        > > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                        > > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                        > > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                        > > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                        > > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                        > > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                        > > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                        > > to release the spirit in all things.
                        > >
                        > > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                        > > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                        > > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                        > > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                        > > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                        > > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                        > > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                        > > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                        > > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                        > > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                        > > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                        > > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                        > > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                        > > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                        > > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                        > > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                        > > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                        > > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                        > > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                        > > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                        > > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                        > > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                        > > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                        > > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                        > > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                        > > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                        > > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                        > > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                        > > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                        > > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                        > > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                        > > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                        > > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                        > > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                        > > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                        > > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                        > > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                        > > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                        > > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                        > > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                        > > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > eduardathome wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                        > > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                        > > >
                        > > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                        > > the
                        > > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                        > > mean to
                        > > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                        > > meaning
                        > > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                        > > >
                        > > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                        > > the
                        > > > meaning.
                        > > >
                        > > > eduard
                        > > >
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: devindersingh
                        > > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                        > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                        > > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                        > > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                        > > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                        > > the way
                        > > > > of experience.
                        > > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                        > > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                        > > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                        > > Psychology
                        > > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                        > > >
                        > > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                        > > of
                        > > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                        > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                        > > decisions.
                        > > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                        > > seem to
                        > > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                        > > is
                        > > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                        > > and
                        > > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                        > > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                        > > Mary ]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                        > > by an
                        > > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                        > > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                        > > I read
                        > > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                        > > downright
                        > > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                        > > concept â€"
                        > > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                        > > way of
                        > > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                        > > way,
                        > > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                        > > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                        > > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                        > > like the
                        > > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Dick Richardson
                        > > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                        > > concise
                        > > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                        > > on our
                        > > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                        > > Bill
                      • devindersingh
                        Watch 13 minutes of this video from minute 21.13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcrsC3ExkVQ Can you find an existential meaning in it?
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 10, 2013
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                          Watch 13 minutes of this video from minute 21.13
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcrsC3ExkVQ
                          Can you find an existential meaning in it?

                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                          >
                          > [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and
                          > self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination]
                          >
                          > One could very well propose that there is an evolution of humanity [assuming
                          > we will last much longer to actually evolve further], since we already know
                          > that is what is happening.
                          >
                          > But your previous statement was that there is a meaning in the cosmos. So,
                          > what is that meaning??
                          >
                          > If the meaning is that humans should arise and somehow reach a level of
                          > divine being ... why?? Did the cosmos in its origin of the Big Bang also at
                          > the time have a focus upon a humanity which would not appear for another 12
                          > billion years or so??
                          >
                          > eduard
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: devindersingh
                          > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:37 PM
                          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                          >
                          > There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire
                          > process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the
                          > spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                          > evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial
                          > developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the
                          > spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness
                          > is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already
                          > occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later
                          > consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they
                          > imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved
                          > consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve
                          > into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards
                          > Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the
                          > plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the
                          > same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and
                          > divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised,
                          > perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking,
                          > and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its
                          > secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                          > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                          > According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a
                          > possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which
                          > the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that
                          > condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the
                          > individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can
                          > come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that
                          > the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is
                          > bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis.
                          > And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                          > Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an
                          > evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free
                          > choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point
                          > where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life
                          > of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is
                          > striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the
                          > civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason
                          > and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the
                          > larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative
                          > possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is
                          > possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific
                          > and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be
                          > created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if
                          > not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of
                          > existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the
                          > power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a
                          > framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human
                          > spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can
                          > continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but
                          > find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in
                          > which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those
                          > of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                          > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                          > >
                          > > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                          > > evolution]
                          > >
                          > > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already
                          > > know
                          > > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a
                          > > cosmic
                          > > consciousness.
                          > >
                          > > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                          > > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                          > > individual??
                          > >
                          > > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                          > > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                          > > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > eduard
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: devindersingh
                          > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                          > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                          > >
                          > > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                          > > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                          > > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                          > > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                          > > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                          > > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                          > > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                          > > to release the spirit in all things.
                          > >
                          > > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                          > > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                          > > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                          > > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                          > > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                          > > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                          > > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                          > > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                          > > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                          > > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                          > > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                          > > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                          > > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                          > > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                          > > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                          > > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                          > > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                          > > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                          > > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                          > > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                          > > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                          > > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                          > > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                          > > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                          > > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                          > > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                          > > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                          > > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                          > > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                          > > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                          > > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                          > > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                          > > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                          > > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                          > > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                          > > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                          > > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                          > > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                          > > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                          > > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                          > > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > eduardathome wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                          > > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                          > > >
                          > > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                          > > the
                          > > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                          > > mean to
                          > > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                          > > meaning
                          > > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                          > > >
                          > > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                          > > the
                          > > > meaning.
                          > > >
                          > > > eduard
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: devindersingh
                          > > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                          > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                          > > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                          > > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                          > > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                          > > the way
                          > > > > of experience.
                          > > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                          > > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                          > > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                          > > Psychology
                          > > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                          > > >
                          > > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                          > > of
                          > > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                          > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                          > > decisions.
                          > > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                          > > seem to
                          > > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                          > > is
                          > > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                          > > and
                          > > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                          > > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                          > > Mary ]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                          > > by an
                          > > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                          > > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                          > > I read
                          > > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                          > > downright
                          > > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                          > > concept â€"
                          > > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                          > > way of
                          > > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                          > > way,
                          > > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                          > > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                          > > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                          > > like the
                          > > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Dick Richardson
                          > > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                          > > concise
                          > > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                          > > on our
                          > > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                          > > Bill
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