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Re: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?

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  • eduardathome
    The way I see it, THE concept(s) is that you are alive and in being alive you make choices that can result in happiness [or whatever you may wish to call it]
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 7 5:09 PM
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      The way I see it, THE concept(s) is that you are alive and in being alive
      you make choices that can result in happiness [or whatever you may wish to
      call it] rather than misery. There is no alternative to living other than
      to commit suicide in which case the question of what is the concept is moot
      ... you are dead and not in a position to question anything. Dead people
      are ... well ... dead. Oh, you should also make choices which are of some
      help to the humanity around you, rather than to just filling some space and
      using up oxygen.

      If any of this matches something in Existentialism, I'm for it.

      The Lady Presenter in the Monty Python movie got it right .....

      "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people,
      avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in,
      and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and
      nations."

      eduard

      -----Original Message-----
      From: William
      Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:17 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?



      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
      >
      > Existentialist Concepts?
      >
      > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes decisions.
      > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't seem to be
      > many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else is acting
      > authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything, and I'm not
      > accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an ideology. Are
      > there any existentialists concepts you agree with? Mary ]
      >
      > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed by an
      > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
      > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time. I read
      > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and downright
      > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one concept – I
      > exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of
      > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated way, when
      > I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you found? I
      > have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and thousands of
      > letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you like the gnostics and
      > who say that they will not tell?
      >
      > Dick Richardson
      >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise
      >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our
      >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill




      ------------------------------------

      Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

      Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
    • devindersingh
      would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose. Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called Existentialists . I think
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 8 1:35 AM
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        would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
        Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called "Existentialists". I think not.
        > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of experience.
        This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
        The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga Psychology based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".

        Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University of philosophical research in Los Angeles:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
        > >
        > > Existentialist Concepts?
        > >
        > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes decisions. Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't seem to be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else is acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything, and I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with? Mary ]
        > >
        > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed by an ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time. I read them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and downright bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one concept – I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated way, when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you like the gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
        > >
        > > Dick Richardson
        > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill
        >
      • eduardathome
        [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called Existentialists . I think not. ] If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning??
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 8 5:25 AM
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          [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
          "Existentialists". I think not. ]

          If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this the
          meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this mean to
          me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has meaning
          if this is not a meaning for the individual.

          So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is the
          meaning.

          eduard

          -----Original Message-----
          From: devindersingh
          Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?



          would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
          Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
          "Existentialists". I think not.
          > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way
          > of experience.
          This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
          The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
          published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga Psychology
          based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".

          Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University of
          philosophical research in Los Angeles:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
          > >
          > > Existentialist Concepts?
          > >
          > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes decisions.
          > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't seem to
          > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else is
          > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything, and
          > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
          > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with? Mary ]
          > >
          > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed by an
          > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
          > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time. I read
          > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and downright
          > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one concept –
          > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the way of
          > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated way,
          > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
          > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
          > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you like the
          > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
          > >
          > > Dick Richardson
          > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise
          > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our
          > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill
          >



          ------------------------------------

          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        • devindersingh
          The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of matter which emerges
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 8 7:49 AM
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            The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
            evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
            matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
            mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
            the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
            emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
            emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
            to release the spirit in all things.

            Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
            Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
            all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
            previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
            already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
            emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
            emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
            each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
            plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
            emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
            not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
            What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
            consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
            That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
            sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousness—the
            consciousness of other beings and things in the world—are
            apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
            emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
            consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
            the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
            mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
            physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
            Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
            consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
            separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
            ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
            more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
            consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
            direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
            consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
            it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
            consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
            cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
            cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
            one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
            other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
            moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
            1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
            The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
            evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
            ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
            eduardathome wrote:
            >
            > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
            > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
            >
            > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
            the
            > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
            mean to
            > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
            meaning
            > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
            >
            > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
            the
            > meaning.
            >
            > eduard
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: devindersingh
            > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
            >
            >
            >
            > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
            > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
            > "Existentialists". I think not.
            > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
            the way
            > > of experience.
            > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
            > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
            > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
            Psychology
            > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
            >
            > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
            of
            > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
            >
            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Existentialist Concepts?
            > > >
            > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
            decisions.
            > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
            seem to
            > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
            is
            > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
            and
            > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
            > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
            Mary ]
            > > >
            > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
            by an
            > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
            > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
            I read
            > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
            downright
            > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
            concept â€"
            > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
            way of
            > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
            way,
            > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
            > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
            > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
            like the
            > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
            > > >
            > > > Dick Richardson
            > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
            concise
            > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
            on our
            > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
            Bill



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary
            This is a gross misrepresentation of both Camus and the body of existentialist thinking. Camus logic of the absurd is not meaninglessness, and other writers
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 8 8:28 AM
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              This is a gross misrepresentation of both Camus and the body of existentialist thinking. Camus' logic of the absurd is not meaninglessness, and other writers do not insist that life is without significance. They offer differing views, but on the whole express that each person creates meaning through their choices and actions. Just as authentic persons may choose their given culture after thoughtful consideration, they may also accept its given meaning. However, the freedom and responsibility to accept and/or create belongs to each person.

              Mary

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" wrote:

              > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose. Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called "Existentialists". I think not.
            • devindersingh
              I have simply taken from what is put out by the existlist owner in the FAQ LINKS. He however does tell us his material does not serve as a study list for
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 8 10:09 AM
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                I have simply taken from what is put out by the existlist owner in the FAQ LINKS. He however does tell us his material does not serve as a study list for existentialism. I can go along with your clarification though I do see there is no unanimity about authenticity either.

                It means then, my submission is a genuine existentialist idea.

                Gulati

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
                >
                > This is a gross misrepresentation of both Camus and the body of existentialist thinking. Camus' logic of the absurd is not meaninglessness, and other writers do not insist that life is without significance. They offer differing views, but on the whole express that each person creates meaning through their choices and actions. Just as authentic persons may choose their given culture after thoughtful consideration, they may also accept its given meaning. However, the freedom and responsibility to accept and/or create belongs to each person.
                >
                > Mary
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" wrote:
                >
                > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose. Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called "Existentialists". I think not.
                >
              • eduardathome
                [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual evolution] In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already know that
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 8 3:38 PM
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                  [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual evolution]

                  In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already know
                  that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a cosmic
                  consciousness.

                  That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                  some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                  individual??

                  If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                  consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                  that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?


                  eduard

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: devindersingh
                  Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?

                  The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                  evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                  matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                  mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                  the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                  emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                  emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                  to release the spirit in all things.

                  Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                  Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                  all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                  previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                  already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                  emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                  emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                  each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                  plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                  emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                  not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                  What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                  consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                  That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                  sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousness—the
                  consciousness of other beings and things in the world—are
                  apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                  emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                  consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                  the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                  mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                  physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                  Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                  consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                  separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                  ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                  more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                  consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                  direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                  consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                  it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                  consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                  cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                  cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                  one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                  other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                  moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                  1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                  The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                  evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                  ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                  eduardathome wrote:
                  >
                  > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                  > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                  >
                  > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                  the
                  > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                  mean to
                  > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                  meaning
                  > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                  >
                  > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                  the
                  > meaning.
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: devindersingh
                  > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                  > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                  > "Existentialists". I think not.
                  > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                  the way
                  > > of experience.
                  > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                  > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                  > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                  Psychology
                  > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                  >
                  > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                  of
                  > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                  > > >
                  > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                  decisions.
                  > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                  seem to
                  > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                  is
                  > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                  and
                  > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                  > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                  Mary ]
                  > > >
                  > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                  by an
                  > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                  > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                  I read
                  > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                  downright
                  > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                  concept â€"
                  > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                  way of
                  > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                  way,
                  > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                  > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                  > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                  like the
                  > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                  > > >
                  > > > Dick Richardson
                  > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                  concise
                  > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                  on our
                  > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                  Bill



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                  Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                • devindersingh
                  There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the spirit
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 8 6:37 PM
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                    There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                    evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised, perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking, and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                    [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                    According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis. And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                    Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                    [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                    >
                    > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual evolution]
                    >
                    > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already know
                    > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a cosmic
                    > consciousness.
                    >
                    > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                    > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                    > individual??
                    >
                    > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                    > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                    > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                    >
                    >
                    > eduard
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: devindersingh
                    > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                    >
                    > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                    > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                    > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                    > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                    > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                    > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                    > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                    > to release the spirit in all things.
                    >
                    > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                    > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                    > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                    > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                    > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                    > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                    > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                    > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                    > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                    > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                    > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                    > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                    > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                    > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                    > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                    > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                    > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                    > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                    > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                    > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                    > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                    > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                    > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                    > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                    > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                    > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                    > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                    > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                    > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                    > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                    > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                    > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                    > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                    > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                    > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                    > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                    > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                    > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                    > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                    > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                    > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                    > eduardathome wrote:
                    > >
                    > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                    > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                    > >
                    > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                    > the
                    > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                    > mean to
                    > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                    > meaning
                    > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                    > >
                    > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                    > the
                    > > meaning.
                    > >
                    > > eduard
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: devindersingh
                    > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                    > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                    > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                    > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                    > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                    > the way
                    > > > of experience.
                    > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                    > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                    > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                    > Psychology
                    > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                    > >
                    > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                    > of
                    > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                    > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                    > >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                    > decisions.
                    > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                    > seem to
                    > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                    > is
                    > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                    > and
                    > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                    > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                    > Mary ]
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                    > by an
                    > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                    > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                    > I read
                    > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                    > downright
                    > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                    > concept â€"
                    > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                    > way of
                    > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                    > way,
                    > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                    > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                    > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                    > like the
                    > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Dick Richardson
                    > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                    > concise
                    > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                    > on our
                    > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                    > Bill
                  • Dick.
                    You are WRONG. Conscious experience is a part of what we ARE. But you rely on beliefs and what you THINK as the arbiter of truth. And which is idiotic rubbish
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 8 9:50 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      You are WRONG. Conscious experience is a part of what we ARE. But you rely on beliefs and what you THINK as the arbiter of truth. And which is idiotic rubbish and diatribe. You do not exist because you think and believe that you exist. And religion has plainly fucked America up good and proper. Brainwashed to the core. I did read that ages ago by the way.

                      Dick Richardson


                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                      >

                      > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very concise and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us on our own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner. Bill
                      >
                    • eduardathome
                      [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit s self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination] One could very well
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 9 7:22 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and
                        self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination]

                        One could very well propose that there is an evolution of humanity [assuming
                        we will last much longer to actually evolve further], since we already know
                        that is what is happening.

                        But your previous statement was that there is a meaning in the cosmos. So,
                        what is that meaning??

                        If the meaning is that humans should arise and somehow reach a level of
                        divine being ... why?? Did the cosmos in its origin of the Big Bang also at
                        the time have a focus upon a humanity which would not appear for another 12
                        billion years or so??

                        eduard

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: devindersingh
                        Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:37 PM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?

                        There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire
                        process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the
                        spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                        evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial
                        developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the
                        spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness
                        is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already
                        occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later
                        consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they
                        imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved
                        consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve
                        into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards
                        Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the
                        plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the
                        same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and
                        divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised,
                        perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking,
                        and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its
                        secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                        [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                        According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a
                        possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which
                        the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that
                        condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the
                        individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can
                        come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that
                        the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is
                        bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis.
                        And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                        Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an
                        evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free
                        choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point
                        where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life
                        of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is
                        striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the
                        civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason
                        and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the
                        larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative
                        possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is
                        possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific
                        and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be
                        created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if
                        not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of
                        existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the
                        power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a
                        framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human
                        spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can
                        continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but
                        find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in
                        which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those
                        of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                        [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                        >
                        > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                        > evolution]
                        >
                        > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already
                        > know
                        > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a
                        > cosmic
                        > consciousness.
                        >
                        > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                        > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                        > individual??
                        >
                        > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                        > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                        > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                        >
                        >
                        > eduard
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: devindersingh
                        > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                        >
                        > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                        > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                        > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                        > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                        > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                        > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                        > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                        > to release the spirit in all things.
                        >
                        > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                        > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                        > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                        > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                        > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                        > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                        > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                        > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                        > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                        > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                        > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                        > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                        > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                        > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                        > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                        > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                        > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                        > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                        > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                        > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                        > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                        > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                        > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                        > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                        > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                        > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                        > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                        > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                        > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                        > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                        > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                        > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                        > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                        > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                        > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                        > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                        > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                        > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                        > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                        > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                        > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                        > eduardathome wrote:
                        > >
                        > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                        > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                        > >
                        > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                        > the
                        > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                        > mean to
                        > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                        > meaning
                        > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                        > >
                        > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                        > the
                        > > meaning.
                        > >
                        > > eduard
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: devindersingh
                        > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                        > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                        > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                        > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                        > the way
                        > > > of experience.
                        > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                        > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                        > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                        > Psychology
                        > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                        > >
                        > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                        > of
                        > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                        > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                        > >
                        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                        > decisions.
                        > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                        > seem to
                        > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                        > is
                        > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                        > and
                        > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                        > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                        > Mary ]
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                        > by an
                        > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                        > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                        > I read
                        > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                        > downright
                        > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                        > concept â€"
                        > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                        > way of
                        > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                        > way,
                        > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                        > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                        > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                        > like the
                        > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Dick Richardson
                        > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                        > concise
                        > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                        > on our
                        > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                        > Bill




                        ------------------------------------

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                      • devindersingh
                        The origin, the continent, the initial and the ultimate reality of all that is in the cosmos is the triune principle of transcendent and infinite Existence,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 9 7:02 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The origin, the continent, the initial and the ultimate reality of all that is in the cosmos is the triune principle of transcendent and infinite Existence, Consciousness and Bliss which is the nature of divine being. Consciousness has two aspects, illuminating and effective, state and power of self-awareness and state and power of self-force, by which Being possesses itself whether in its static condition or in its dynamic movement; for in its creative action it knows by omnipotent self-consciousness all that is latent within it and produces and governs the universe of its potentialities by an omniscient self-energy. The creation depends on and moves between the biune principle of unity and multiplicity; it is a manifoldness of idea and force and form which is the expression of an original unity, and it is an eternal oneness which is the foundation and reality of the multiple worlds and makes their play possible.
                          Then we perceive that our existence is a sort of refraction of the divine existence, in inverted order of ascent and descent, thus ranged,—
                          Existence Matter
                          Consciousness-Force Life
                          Bliss Psyche
                          Supermind Mind.
                          The Divine descends from pure existence through the play of Consciousness-Force and Bliss and the creative medium of Supermind into cosmic being; we ascend from Matter through a developing life, soul and mind and the illuminating medium of Supermind towards the divine being.
                          [http://search.sriaurobindoashram.info/Document.aspx?uri=http://sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English/-01_SABCL/-18_The%20Life%20Divine_Volume-18/-28_The%20Sevenfold%20Chord%20of%20Being%20.htm]
                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                          >
                          > [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and
                          > self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination]
                          >
                          > One could very well propose that there is an evolution of humanity [assuming
                          > we will last much longer to actually evolve further], since we already know
                          > that is what is happening.
                          >
                          > But your previous statement was that there is a meaning in the cosmos. So,
                          > what is that meaning??
                          >
                          > If the meaning is that humans should arise and somehow reach a level of
                          > divine being ... why?? Did the cosmos in its origin of the Big Bang also at
                          > the time have a focus upon a humanity which would not appear for another 12
                          > billion years or so??
                          >
                          > eduard
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: devindersingh
                          > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:37 PM
                          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                          >
                          > There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire
                          > process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the
                          > spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                          > evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial
                          > developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the
                          > spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness
                          > is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already
                          > occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later
                          > consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they
                          > imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved
                          > consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve
                          > into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards
                          > Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the
                          > plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the
                          > same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and
                          > divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised,
                          > perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking,
                          > and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its
                          > secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                          > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                          > According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a
                          > possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which
                          > the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that
                          > condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the
                          > individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can
                          > come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that
                          > the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is
                          > bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis.
                          > And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                          > Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an
                          > evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free
                          > choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point
                          > where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life
                          > of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is
                          > striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the
                          > civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason
                          > and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the
                          > larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative
                          > possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is
                          > possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific
                          > and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be
                          > created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if
                          > not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of
                          > existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the
                          > power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a
                          > framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human
                          > spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can
                          > continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but
                          > find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in
                          > which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those
                          > of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                          > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                          > >
                          > > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                          > > evolution]
                          > >
                          > > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already
                          > > know
                          > > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a
                          > > cosmic
                          > > consciousness.
                          > >
                          > > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                          > > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                          > > individual??
                          > >
                          > > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                          > > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                          > > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > eduard
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: devindersingh
                          > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                          > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                          > >
                          > > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                          > > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                          > > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                          > > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                          > > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                          > > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                          > > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                          > > to release the spirit in all things.
                          > >
                          > > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                          > > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                          > > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                          > > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                          > > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                          > > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                          > > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                          > > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                          > > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                          > > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                          > > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                          > > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                          > > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                          > > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                          > > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                          > > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                          > > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                          > > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                          > > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                          > > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                          > > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                          > > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                          > > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                          > > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                          > > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                          > > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                          > > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                          > > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                          > > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                          > > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                          > > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                          > > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                          > > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                          > > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                          > > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                          > > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                          > > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                          > > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                          > > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                          > > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                          > > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > eduardathome wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                          > > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                          > > >
                          > > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                          > > the
                          > > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                          > > mean to
                          > > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                          > > meaning
                          > > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                          > > >
                          > > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                          > > the
                          > > > meaning.
                          > > >
                          > > > eduard
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: devindersingh
                          > > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                          > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                          > > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                          > > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                          > > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                          > > the way
                          > > > > of experience.
                          > > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                          > > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                          > > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                          > > Psychology
                          > > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                          > > >
                          > > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                          > > of
                          > > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                          > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                          > > decisions.
                          > > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                          > > seem to
                          > > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                          > > is
                          > > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                          > > and
                          > > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                          > > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                          > > Mary ]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                          > > by an
                          > > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                          > > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                          > > I read
                          > > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                          > > downright
                          > > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                          > > concept â€"
                          > > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                          > > way of
                          > > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                          > > way,
                          > > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                          > > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                          > > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                          > > like the
                          > > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Dick Richardson
                          > > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                          > > concise
                          > > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                          > > on our
                          > > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                          > > Bill
                        • devindersingh
                          Watch 13 minutes of this video from minute 21.13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcrsC3ExkVQ Can you find an existential meaning in it?
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 10 5:50 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Watch 13 minutes of this video from minute 21.13
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcrsC3ExkVQ
                            Can you find an existential meaning in it?

                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                            >
                            > [a consummation in a deployment of the spirit's self knowledge and
                            > self-power of its divine being and consciousness is the culmination]
                            >
                            > One could very well propose that there is an evolution of humanity [assuming
                            > we will last much longer to actually evolve further], since we already know
                            > that is what is happening.
                            >
                            > But your previous statement was that there is a meaning in the cosmos. So,
                            > what is that meaning??
                            >
                            > If the meaning is that humans should arise and somehow reach a level of
                            > divine being ... why?? Did the cosmos in its origin of the Big Bang also at
                            > the time have a focus upon a humanity which would not appear for another 12
                            > billion years or so??
                            >
                            > eduard
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: devindersingh
                            > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:37 PM
                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                            >
                            > There are, according to Sri Aurobindo, three stages that cover the entire
                            > process of manifestation that is relevant to evolution. An involution of the
                            > spirit in the inconscience is the beginning;
                            > evolution in the ignorance with its play of possibilities of a partial
                            > developing knowledge is the middle; a consummation in a deployment of the
                            > spirit's self knowledge and self-power of its divine being and consciousness
                            > is the culmination. It may be argued that the two stages that have already
                            > occurred seem at first sight to deny the possibility of the later
                            > consummating state of the cycle, but it is stressed that logically they
                            > imply its emergence. For, it is argued, if the inconscience has evolved
                            > consciousness, the partial consciousness already reached must surely evolve
                            > into complete consciousness, considering that just as the impulse towards
                            > Mind ranges from the more sensitive reactions of Life in the metal and the
                            > plant up to its full organization in man, so in man himself there is the
                            > same ascending series, the preparation, if nothing more, of a higher and
                            > divine life. It is, therefore, contended that it is a supramentalised,
                            > perfected and divinized life for which the earth-nature is secretly seeking,
                            > and that a progressive manifestation of this kind can only have for its
                            > secret or significance, the evolution of a Being in a perfect Becoming.
                            > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-03_Yoga%20and%20Evolution.htm#Evolution_and_Human_Progress]
                            > According to Sri Aurobindo, the present age of human development has a
                            > possibility of becoming a gate for the arrival of a Spiritual Age in which
                            > the ideal of brotherhood can come to be practised; it is only in that
                            > condition that a new form of human unity can be forged in which the
                            > individual and the collectivity, even on a global scale of organization, can
                            > come to be harmonized. In the meantime, however, it is to be realized that
                            > the advent of the Spiritual Age and even a transition to that advent is
                            > bound to be difficult, and it is, in fact, riddled with a series of crisis.
                            > And there are deeper reasons for this crisis.
                            > Sri Aurobindo considers the present stage of crisis as an
                            > evolutionary crisis in which the human will is called upon to make a free
                            > choice. This is the crisis where the human reason has evolved up to a point
                            > where it is obliged to play the role of lifting up humanity to create a life
                            > of unity, mutuality and harmony. On the other hand, there is a force that is
                            > striving to assert stark barbarism which has still survived in the
                            > civilized man. There is thus an acute conflict between the ideals of Reason
                            > and the gravitational pull of barbarism supported by Unreason. Within the
                            > larger framework of this conflict, there are three alternative
                            > possibilities, which are also in conflict with each other. For it is
                            > possible that the humankind may be able to utilize the present scientific
                            > and technical knowledge to such an extent that an order of existence can be
                            > created in which physical and vital wants of the human being can greatly, if
                            > not fully, be satisfied, and it may also be conceived that this order of
                            > existence can be maintained by mechanical devices and application of the
                            > power of machines. This possibility may push humanity to the creation of a
                            > framework that can be sustained only by the imprisonment of the human
                            > spirit. There is also a second alternative in which human reason can
                            > continue to spin out larger or narrower circles propounding great dreams but
                            > find itself unable to fulfill them. But there is also a third alternative in
                            > which the human beings might consent to rise to the higher levels than those
                            > of the Reason and consent to be spiritualized.
                            > [http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=/_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Kireet%20Joshi/Integral%20yoga%20and%20Evollutionary%20Mutation/-04_Human%20History%20and%20the%20Problems%20of%20the%20Harmony.htm#Contemporary_Evolutionary_Crisis]
                            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                            > >
                            > > [The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                            > > evolution]
                            > >
                            > > In brief, what you are saying is that humanity is evolving. We already
                            > > know
                            > > that ... even if one were to accept that it is an evolution towards a
                            > > cosmic
                            > > consciousness.
                            > >
                            > > That doesn't answer the question of what is the "meaning". Am I here for
                            > > some particular purpose or reason?? What is there in all this for the
                            > > individual??
                            > >
                            > > If the end point is to be able to link our consciousness with a cosmic
                            > > consciousness, why is this important? If for some reason we do not reach
                            > > that point ... so what? And who or what is monitoring our progress?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > eduard
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: devindersingh
                            > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 10:49 AM
                            > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                            > >
                            > > The meaning for you Eduard is this:Each plane that emerges in the
                            > > evolution contains the seed of the following planes. So the plane of
                            > > matter which emerges first contains the seed of the planes of life and
                            > > mind. Each planes also has involved in it even higher planes, including
                            > > the planes of the spirit. The spirit is involved in all the planes that
                            > > emerge. One of the goals of life is for us to enable the spirit to
                            > > emerge in matter, life, and mind. That is one of our roles of destiny;
                            > > to release the spirit in all things.
                            > >
                            > > Life is involved in Matter; Mind is involved in Life; and Supermind in
                            > > Mind. (Actually Mind is involved in Matter and Life, and Supermind in
                            > > all three.)There is a process of unfolding of one plane from the
                            > > previous plane. One plane emerges from the previous because it is
                            > > already involved there as potential; and under the right circumstances
                            > > emerges to the next highest plane. However, what really compels the
                            > > emergence of the next plane is the underlying spirit that is embedded in
                            > > each plane, pushing that plane's potential to emerge from its current
                            > > plane into the next plane. Since spirit is infinitely creative, what
                            > > emerges in the next plane is dynamically new and creative; what could
                            > > not be conceived. http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/Creation.htm
                            > > What then is the next step of your evolution Eduard?The ordinary human
                            > > consciousness is confined to one's own individual consciousness.
                            > > That is, we are directly aware of only our own thoughts, feelings and
                            > > sensations. What lie outside our personal consciousnessâ€"the
                            > > consciousness of other beings and things in the worldâ€"are
                            > > apprehended by us only indirectly, through external sense contacts,
                            > > emotional empathy or mental inference. However, the personal
                            > > consciousness of our separate individual self is part of and one with
                            > > the consciousness of the Cosmic Self. Our individual physical, vital and
                            > > mental consciousness is derived from and is a part of a universal
                            > > physical, vital and mental consciousness. But there is a wall of
                            > > Ignorance between the individual consciousness and the universal
                            > > consciousness. Consequently, the individual self feels itself to be
                            > > separate from the universe. By means of a spiritual discipline our
                            > > ordinary consciousness, which is more or less gross and dense, becomes
                            > > more subtle and is able to perceive what lies outside our individual
                            > > consciousness more directly through an inner perception. It becomes a
                            > > direct perception of consciousness all around us through our own
                            > > consciousness. Further, by a widening of the individual consciousness,
                            > > it extends itself progressively so as finally to be identified with the
                            > > consciousness of the universe, seeing oneself in everything in the
                            > > cosmos and everything in the cosmos in oneself. One is then said to have
                            > > cosmic consciousness. Thus, "When one has the cosmic consciousness,
                            > > one can feel the cosmic Self as one's own self, one can feel one with
                            > > other beings in the cosmos, one can feel all the forces of Nature as
                            > > moving in oneself, all selves as one's own self" (1972d, p.
                            > > 1071).http://www.ipi.org.in/texts/ipyc/ipyc-full/asdalal.php
                            > > The purpose of the creation of the cosmos is your own individual
                            > > evolution:http://www.gurusoftware.com/GuruNet/AurobindoMother/TheLifeDiv\
                            > > ine/HTML/LifeDivineIntro.htm --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > eduardathome wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > [Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                            > > > "Existentialists". I think not. ]
                            > > >
                            > > > If the cosmos has meaning, then what is this meaning?? And for this
                            > > the
                            > > > meaning should be a meaning for the individual. What does all this
                            > > mean to
                            > > > me. That is the issue. It is pointless to say that the cosmos has
                            > > meaning
                            > > > if this is not a meaning for the individual.
                            > > >
                            > > > So Debashish if you think the cosmos has meaning, please tell what is
                            > > the
                            > > > meaning.
                            > > >
                            > > > eduard
                            > > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: devindersingh
                            > > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:35 AM
                            > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Existentialist Concepts?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > would I agree with Camus that life is absurd? Life has a purpose.
                            > > > Is the cosmos meaningless, as expressed by various thinkers called
                            > > > "Existentialists". I think not.
                            > > > > Dick: I exist so what is it all about and what does life offer in
                            > > the way
                            > > > > of experience.
                            > > > This talk considers Sri Aurobindo's spiritual experiences.
                            > > > The presentation is partly based on Dr. Debashish Banerji's recently
                            > > > published book "Seven Quartets of Becoming: A Transformative Yoga
                            > > Psychology
                            > > > based on the Diaries of Sri Aurobindo".
                            > > >
                            > > > Dr. Debashish Banerji is a Dean of academic affairs at the University
                            > > of
                            > > > philosophical research in Los Angeles:
                            > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Xhzui09n8Z0&feature=endscreen
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Dick." wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Existentialist Concepts?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [ Eduard, Agreed. We don't know how a zealot or sadist makes
                            > > decisions.
                            > > > > > Existentialist context is for existentialists, and there don't
                            > > seem to
                            > > > > > be many left anymore. It's pointless to argue whether anyone else
                            > > is
                            > > > > > acting authentically. I don't think anyone is inherently anything,
                            > > and
                            > > > > > I'm not accommodating terrorists by suggesting they're bound to an
                            > > > > > ideology. Are there any existentialists concepts you agree with?
                            > > Mary ]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Well he is certainly right on that at least, they are brainwashed
                            > > by an
                            > > > > > ideology. However, do a numbered list of what you see as being THE
                            > > > > > Existentialists Concepts and we can go though them one at a time.
                            > > I read
                            > > > > > them all many years ago and was most amazingly unimpressed and
                            > > downright
                            > > > > > bloody bored stiff. My own existentialist outlook is only one
                            > > concept â€"
                            > > > > > I exists so what is it all about and what does life offer in the
                            > > way of
                            > > > > > experience. I was asking that question, in a less sophisticated
                            > > way,
                            > > > > > when I was three. So, what does it have to offer us? What have you
                            > > > > > found? I have told what I found (six books and a hundred poems and
                            > > > > > thousands of letters and emails). Now you have a go. Or are you
                            > > like the
                            > > > > > gnostics and who say that they will not tell?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Dick Richardson
                            > > > > >Dick, read the existentail primer. It is not too long and is very
                            > > concise
                            > > > > >and direct. CSW has continually updated it . You need not task us
                            > > on our
                            > > > > >own site when the whole philosophy is well outlined by the Owner.
                            > > Bill
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