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Defense,drones and dingbats

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  • William
    Leon Panetta is making his final stand for the huge defense budget. He cites readyness issues . Hagel seems to have survived the fillibuster threat but it
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 6, 2013
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      Leon Panetta is making his final stand for the huge defense budget. He cites readyness issues . Hagel seems to have survived the fillibuster threat but it remains to be seen how deeply he would cut defense.It seems once appointed those high bureaucrats change their skin color and become the defender of their bureaucratic turf. It seems a sequester would slash contractor positions. Those are sacred neocon bastions but with the wars winding down there seems little need for para military covert troops.
      The killer drones come from Saudi,at least some of them do. Of course the predators have limited range but that is classified. They are reported to be schedualed to begin operations over Syracuse. Why? are they going to strike radical Islam in New York? It is purposely confused if the drones themselves will be stationed near their remote pilots or will they actually fly from bases such as has been discovered in Saudi. It has been said that the remote pilots from Des Moines will be trained in Syracuse. It has not been announced if the actual aircraft will ever fly out of Des Moines.
      Finally, they shot the child abductor as I thought they would. That has become the standard modus operandi and it is hard to argue with killing a killer. I`m glad they got the boy out of the hole. Since they had audio and video in the bunker why not introduce a sleep agent so we could find out what motovated this dingbat. If we can`t find out what drives these people we will never be able to understand and twart them before they start wasting people. It has been this way since Waco. Kill them all and learn nothing. It is always the gun that ends any investigation. Is that the best that can be done or is it the only thing authorities want to utilise? Bill
    • Mary
      You offer a good argument against killing a killer--needing to learn from it. Why doesn t law enforcement use other technology? Perhaps it would have been
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 6, 2013
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        You offer a good argument against killing a killer--needing to learn from it. Why doesn't law enforcement use other technology? Perhaps it would have been lethal to the child, since once the food and other materials enter the bunker there's little control over who eats or handles it.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

        > Finally, they shot the child abductor as I thought they would. That has become the standard modus operandi and it is hard to argue with killing a killer. I`m glad they got the boy out of the hole. Since they had audio and video in the bunker why not introduce a sleep agent so we could find out what motovated this dingbat. If we can`t find out what drives these people we will never be able to understand and twart them before they start wasting people. It has been this way since Waco. Kill them all and learn nothing. It is always the gun that ends any investigation. Is that the best that can be done or is it the only thing authorities want to utilise? Bill
        >
      • William
        ... The SEAL who was blown away by the marine shows the very tip of the violent culture. After all his training and lethality there was still a superior
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 6, 2013
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
          >
          > You offer a good argument against killing a killer--needing to learn from it. Why doesn't law enforcement use other technology? Perhaps it would have been lethal to the child, since once the food and other materials enter the bunker there's little control over who eats or handles it.
          >
          > Mary
          > Mary, I was thinking of an aerosol agent. If you can get a wire in you can force in a gas. The NRA says they want mental health actions to thwart gun violence but they oppose CDC studies to get to the causes of gun deaths. Their seems a culture to turn to the gun first and then the dead tell no tales. It is a law enforcement version of what Eduard sees as the wild west mentality. The hot shooters in swat teams have a lot of ego invested in gun prowess. That ego just ratchets up the violent tensions in these kind of situations. The NRA wants more of that, more guns, more rounds more money for NRA , its gun and ammo producers. They are going the way of greater profits not the greater good. Their bone headed membership does not buy into this intellectually they respond to the emotion and hype of violent confrontation. Yes it is a male thing,a bad male thing, a juvenile male thing.When you train someone up to hair trigger reactions you have created a killing machine. I do not think we need more of those we need different methods, early intervention non lethal intervention.
          The SEAL who was blown away by the marine shows the very tip of the violent culture. After all his training and lethality there was still a superior gun, one of his comrades in arms. The answer is not piling on more guns,more ammo,more body armour. Thats going the wrong way . Bill
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
          >
          > > Finally, they shot the child abductor as I thought they would. That has become the standard modus operandi and it is hard to argue with killing a killer. I`m glad they got the boy out of the hole. Since they had audio and video in the bunker why not introduce a sleep agent so we could find out what motovated this dingbat. If we can`t find out what drives these people we will never be able to understand and twart them before they start wasting people. It has been this way since Waco. Kill them all and learn nothing. It is always the gun that ends any investigation. Is that the best that can be done or is it the only thing authorities want to utilise? Bill
          > >
          >
        • eduardathome
          They had a conduit to the bunker. They could have put in some sleeping gas that acts immediately. Like they did in Russia some years back. eduard ... From:
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 6, 2013
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            They had a conduit to the bunker. They could have put in some sleeping gas
            that acts immediately. Like they did in Russia some years back.

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Mary
            Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:48 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [existlist] Re: Defense,drones and dingbats

            You offer a good argument against killing a killer--needing to learn from
            it. Why doesn't law enforcement use other technology? Perhaps it would have
            been lethal to the child, since once the food and other materials enter the
            bunker there's little control over who eats or handles it.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

            > Finally, they shot the child abductor as I thought they would. That has
            > become the standard modus operandi and it is hard to argue with killing
            > a killer. I`m glad they got the boy out of the hole. Since they had audio
            > and video in the bunker why not introduce a sleep agent so we could find
            > out what motovated this dingbat. If we can`t find out what drives these
            > people we will never be able to understand and twart them before they
            > start wasting people. It has been this way since Waco. Kill them all and
            > learn nothing. It is always the gun that ends any investigation. Is that
            > the best that can be done or is it the only thing authorities want to
            > utilise? Bill
            >




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          • William
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 6, 2013
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
              >
              > They had a conduit to the bunker. They could have put in some sleeping gas
              > that acts immediately. Like they did in Russia some years back.
              >
              > eduard
              > Eduard, that is exactly what could have been done. However, flash bangs and submachine guns are a lot more exciting. Firing a submachine gun in a small enclosed space is wildly dangerous to any and all in the enclosure. The russians also understand and execute prisnors with a single shot to the back of the head in a rubber room. In a hard surface room a round just bounces around until it hits someone or something soft. Why we chose the Special Weapons And Tactics route is buried in police lore. When M16`s were the weapons of choice there were many training accidents. Yet we persist in using these most violent and dangerous of tools and tactics. We have just dared the crazies to build bunkers and fill them with bombs and booby traps. We are just begging for gun fights and the nut fringe responds like pavlovs dogs. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we are fucking nuts. Bill
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Mary
              > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:48 PM
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: Defense,drones and dingbats
              >
              > You offer a good argument against killing a killer--needing to learn from
              > it. Why doesn't law enforcement use other technology? Perhaps it would have
              > been lethal to the child, since once the food and other materials enter the
              > bunker there's little control over who eats or handles it.
              >
              > Mary
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
              >
              > > Finally, they shot the child abductor as I thought they would. That has
              > > become the standard modus operandi and it is hard to argue with killing
              > > a killer. I`m glad they got the boy out of the hole. Since they had audio
              > > and video in the bunker why not introduce a sleep agent so we could find
              > > out what motovated this dingbat. If we can`t find out what drives these
              > > people we will never be able to understand and twart them before they
              > > start wasting people. It has been this way since Waco. Kill them all and
              > > learn nothing. It is always the gun that ends any investigation. Is that
              > > the best that can be done or is it the only thing authorities want to
              > > utilise? Bill
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
              >
              > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • eduardathome
              There was an episode of the TV series Trailer park boys where they are trying to bring marijuana across the US-New Brunswick border. A swat team turns up
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 6, 2013
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                There was an episode of the TV series "Trailer park boys" where they are
                trying to bring marijuana across the US-New Brunswick border. A swat team
                turns up along FBI, border patrol and whatever else there was on US side.
                They had all their weapons along with appropriate acronyms on the back of
                their jackets. There was only one Canadian cop and he was drunk. It points
                out the "security and police" culture south of the border. The problem is
                that there is tons of money for this stuff. It would have seemed ludicrous
                to send down a $1's worth of gas to do the same thing. If you can afford a
                sledge hammer ... why not??

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: William
                Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:56 PM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Defense,drones and dingbats



                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                >
                > They had a conduit to the bunker. They could have put in some sleeping
                > gas
                > that acts immediately. Like they did in Russia some years back.
                >
                > eduard
                > Eduard, that is exactly what could have been done. However, flash bangs
                > and submachine guns are a lot more exciting. Firing a submachine gun in a
                > small enclosed space is wildly dangerous to any and all in the enclosure.
                > The russians also understand and execute prisnors with a single shot to
                > the back of the head in a rubber room. In a hard surface room a round just
                > bounces around until it hits someone or something soft. Why we chose the
                > Special Weapons And Tactics route is buried in police lore. When M16`s
                > were the weapons of choice there were many training accidents. Yet we
                > persist in using these most violent and dangerous of tools and tactics.
                > We have just dared the crazies to build bunkers and fill them with bombs
                > and booby traps. We are just begging for gun fights and the nut fringe
                > responds like pavlovs dogs. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we are
                > fucking nuts. Bill
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Mary
                > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:48 PM
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [existlist] Re: Defense,drones and dingbats
                >
                > You offer a good argument against killing a killer--needing to learn from
                > it. Why doesn't law enforcement use other technology? Perhaps it would
                > have
                > been lethal to the child, since once the food and other materials enter
                > the
                > bunker there's little control over who eats or handles it.
                >
                > Mary
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                >
                > > Finally, they shot the child abductor as I thought they would. That has
                > > become the standard modus operandi and it is hard to argue with
                > > killing
                > > a killer. I`m glad they got the boy out of the hole. Since they had
                > > audio
                > > and video in the bunker why not introduce a sleep agent so we could
                > > find
                > > out what motovated this dingbat. If we can`t find out what drives these
                > > people we will never be able to understand and twart them before they
                > > start wasting people. It has been this way since Waco. Kill them all and
                > > learn nothing. It is always the gun that ends any investigation. Is
                > > that
                > > the best that can be done or is it the only thing authorities want to
                > > utilise? Bill
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                >
                > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                >




                ------------------------------------

                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
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