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Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Are we naturally good or bad?

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  • devindersingh gulati
    Eddie, you ll love this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seerseeker/message/13336 Will revert soon on difference between Dharma and natural law.  Gulati
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 4, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Eddie, you'll love this one:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seerseeker/message/13336

      Will revert soon on difference between Dharma and natural law. 
      Gulati


      ________________________________
      From: Eddie <gdigest@...>
      To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013 5:14 PM
      Subject: [TheBecoming] Re: Are we naturally good or bad?


       
      Hi Mr Gulati & others,
       
      Actually my comments (03Feb) were primarily directed at Mr
      Padmo’s weird formulations – ( ‘weird’ because it’s a lot of verbal fog to me).
      Here is an example:
      --------------------------------------------------
      Bhanu Padmo bows. Welcome to the world of positive
      critiquing.
      Final Authority. I am saying these things
      :
      1)There is an
      objective viewpoint in the subject where perception is exercised
      from.
      2)Morality is
      ascribable to this objective viewpoint.
      3)The ascribable
      morality is unique in the particular instance of thematic (objective) viewing.
      4)The morality
      contents of various instances of thematic viewing... is proportional to
      individual*s unique evolutionary value.
      5)Moralities and
      their evolutionary bases when collated in an increasing order do implicitly
      portend *directionality of creation*.
      ---------------------------------
       
      Can Mr Padmo tell us:
      - how original are statements like these? Or has he pinched them from
      some western philosophy texts?
      - would an India/Hindu college student be able to comprehend
      this stuff? And if not, to whom is it targeted?
      - Would Mr Padmo be able to
      translate it all in Hindi?
      - do all these expositions have any utilitarian purpose
      (considering India’s pathetic condition – social, economic, moral)?
       
      Mr Gulati, returning to your email below, you keep expatiating on dharma and the like.
      I think I have mentioned that the concept is not all that original. The
      west in the earlier centuries used the term ‘natural law’ or simply conscience. Surely dharma is nothing more than what Christians call the
      individual conscience.
      But in today’s wicked world where the powerful can impose their will on the
      weak, these concepts (dharma or conscience) have become irrelevant and
      ineffective. We need something new.
       
      Mr Suresh Vyas (03Feb) rightly
      stated the Christian view that “all humans are sinners, so are bad.
      This view is not supported by the Vedas or it's 700-verse summary the Bhagavad
      Gita.”
      The
      Christian churches have focused on sin and salvation – thereby assigning a
      dominant role for the clerics (priests).

      Meanwhile
      churches have openly supported western colonialism and empire and fostered
      racist attitudes.
      Now the empires
      are crumbling and the same priests have been caught up in horrendous child sex
      scandals. As a result, the churches have lost all their credibility and no
      longer claim the moral high ground.
       
      Vyas goes on to say that “ ignorance of dharma and resulting actions make one bad or sinner.”
      Does dharma or conscience exist today among the business and state elites in
      India or the West?
      These concepts have no force today,
      no practical use. We need substitutes.
       
      In any case, what is the point
      of  grappling with such barren worn out concepts in a wretched country like
      India - without focusing on India’s terrible condition – the poverty &
      destitution (80% of the people live on Rs 20 or less a day), caste horrors,
      corruption, illiteracy, disease and so on.
       
      Eddie
       
       
      =================
      From: devindersingh gulati
      Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:09 AM
      To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Are we naturally good or
      bad?

      I hope you have followed the thread on Dharma, Eddie. It was initiated by
      you.
      Dharma allows each one to follow his
      individual development without constraining him with a standard uniform rule
      that applies to everyone as in religion. Dharma does not fail to provide the 'vision' of  a common communal
      development either.
      Here lies the difficulty of the moderator of 
      this group. He must allow each the space for his own personal expression
      which is individually varied, yet tie the group together to a common shared
      vision.
      I saw the post by Jacob. See what I mean.
       
      Gulati


      ________________________________
      From: Eddie
      <gdigest@...>
      To:
      Cc: 05-Ghosh Viswa
      <viswa.ghosh@...>; 06-Gulati DS <dgulhati@...>; 09-Padmo
      Bhanu <greenbhanu@...>
      Sent: Sunday, 3 February 2013 5:57
      PM
      Subject: [TheBecoming] Re:
      Are we naturally good or bad?

       
       
      Hello moderator,
      I am baffled as to what is going on in this forum.
      A
      lot of pseudo-philosophical gobbledegook is being exchanged and I have no clue
      what it means.
      More to the point, should ordinary members have to put up
      with this pretentious stuff?
      Is it suitable for a general forum like this or
      should it be fed to members of some ashram or occult group?
      Can Indians think
      and conduct discourse like this in their own language?
      Mr moderator, I'd
      appreciate your view on this . We could benefit from a review of the forum
      objectives.
      Eddie

      [Moderator: The purpose of the group was last
      reviewed here:
      http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/4219
      We
      are now upgrading the discussions to the group purpose

      The previous
      enunciation of purpose in the earlier avatar said:
      http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/46
      http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/71
      http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/169%5d





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eduardathome
      ... From: devindersingh gulati Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 11:15 PM To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com ; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com ; Alan Kuzlev ;
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 5, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        -----Original Message-----
        From: devindersingh gulati
        Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 11:15 PM
        To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com ; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com ; Alan Kuzlev ;
        TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com ; existlist@yahoogroups.com ;
        Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com ; greenlogic@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Are we naturally good or bad?

        Eddie, you'll love this one:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seerseeker/message/13336

        Will revert soon on difference between Dharma and natural law.
        Gulati


        ________________________________
        From: Eddie <gdigest@...>
        To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013 5:14 PM
        Subject: [TheBecoming] Re: Are we naturally good or bad?

        I like that ... "verbal fog". Very appropriate.

        eduard

        Hi Mr Gulati & others,

        Actually my comments (03Feb) were primarily directed at Mr
        Padmo’s weird formulations – ( ‘weird’ because it’s a lot of verbal fog to
        me).
        Here is an example:
        --------------------------------------------------
        Bhanu Padmo bows. Welcome to the world of positive critiquing.
        Final Authority. I am saying these things :
        1)There is an objective viewpoint in the subject where perception is
        exercised from.
        2)Morality is ascribable to this objective viewpoint.
        3)The ascribable morality is unique in the particular instance of thematic
        (objective) viewing.
        4)The morality contents of various instances of thematic viewing... is
        proportional to individual*s unique evolutionary value.
        5)Moralities and their evolutionary bases when collated in an increasing
        order do implicitly portend *directionality of creation*.
        ---------------------------------

        Can Mr Padmo tell us:
        - how original are statements like these? Or has he pinched them from some
        western philosophy texts?
        - would an India/Hindu college student be able to comprehend this stuff? And
        if not, to whom is it targeted?
        - Would Mr Padmo be able to translate it all in Hindi?
        - do all these expositions have any utilitarian purpose (considering India’s
        pathetic condition – social, economic, moral)?

        Mr Gulati, returning to your email below, you keep expatiating on dharma and
        the like.
        I think I have mentioned that the concept is not all that original. The west
        in the earlier centuries used the term ‘natural law’ or simply conscience.
        Surely dharma is nothing more than what Christians call the individual
        conscience. But in today’s wicked world where the powerful can impose their
        will on the weak, these concepts (dharma or conscience) have become
        irrelevant and ineffective. We need something new.

        Mr Suresh Vyas (03Feb) rightly stated the Christian view that “all humans
        are sinners, so are bad. This view is not supported by the Vedas or it's
        700-verse summary the Bhagavad
        Gita.” The Christian churches have focused on sin and salvation – thereby
        assigning a dominant role for the clerics (priests).

        Meanwhile churches have openly supported western colonialism and empire and
        fostered racist attitudes.
        Now the empires are crumbling and the same priests have been caught up in
        horrendous child sex scandals. As a result, the churches have lost all their
        credibility and no longer claim the moral high ground.

        Vyas goes on to say that “ ignorance of dharma and resulting actions make
        one bad or sinner.” Does dharma or conscience exist today among the business
        and state elites in
        India or the West? These concepts have no force today, no practical use. We
        need substitutes.

        In any case, what is the point of grappling with such barren worn out
        concepts in a wretched country like India - without focusing on India’s
        terrible condition – the poverty & destitution (80% of the people live on Rs
        20 or less a day), caste horrors, corruption, illiteracy, disease and so on.

        Eddie


        =================
        From: devindersingh gulati
        Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:09 AM
        To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Are we naturally good or
        bad?

        I hope you have followed the thread on Dharma, Eddie. It was initiated by
        you.
        Dharma allows each one to follow his
        individual development without constraining him with a standard uniform rule
        that applies to everyone as in religion. Dharma does not fail to provide the
        'vision' of a common communal
        development either.
        Here lies the difficulty of the moderator of
        this group. He must allow each the space for his own personal expression
        which is individually varied, yet tie the group together to a common shared
        vision.
        I saw the post by Jacob. See what I mean.

        Gulati


        ________________________________
        From: Eddie
        <gdigest@...>
        To:
        Cc: 05-Ghosh Viswa
        <viswa.ghosh@...>; 06-Gulati DS <dgulhati@...>; 09-Padmo
        Bhanu <greenbhanu@...>
        Sent: Sunday, 3 February 2013 5:57
        PM
        Subject: [TheBecoming] Re:
        Are we naturally good or bad?



        Hello moderator,
        I am baffled as to what is going on in this forum.
        A
        lot of pseudo-philosophical gobbledegook is being exchanged and I have no
        clue
        what it means.
        More to the point, should ordinary members have to put up
        with this pretentious stuff?
        Is it suitable for a general forum like this or
        should it be fed to members of some ashram or occult group?
        Can Indians think
        and conduct discourse like this in their own language?
        Mr moderator, I'd
        appreciate your view on this . We could benefit from a review of the forum
        objectives.
        Eddie

        [Moderator: The purpose of the group was last
        reviewed here:
        http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/4219
        We
        are now upgrading the discussions to the group purpose

        The previous
        enunciation of purpose in the earlier avatar said:
        http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/46
        http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/71
        http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBecoming/message/169%5d





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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