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Re: [existlist] Map

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  • eduardathome
    It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter interstellar space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was launched some
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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      It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter interstellar
      space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was launched
      some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost at
      the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
      edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but basically
      it is the same result.

      The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
      km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.

      One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
      away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed of
      voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
      speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
      human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is 80,000
      years and still too long.

      If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
      hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not be
      same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would they
      have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
      they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
      Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
      message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
      it??

      eduard



      -----Original Message-----
      From: William
      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] Map

      In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in time.
      For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
      confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
      problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I see
      two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be measured.The
      other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
      of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as energy
      and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
      certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
      prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
      I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
      Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
      interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
      surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
      galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
      intergalactic space.
      We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
      and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
      far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
      human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
      the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
      from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
      in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys each
      containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
      system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to worry
      about interstellar space.



      ------------------------------------

      Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

      Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
    • William
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
        >
        > It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter interstellar
        > space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was launched
        > some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost at
        > the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
        > edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but basically
        > it is the same result.
        >
        > The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
        > km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.
        >
        > One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
        > away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed of
        > voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
        > speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
        > human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is 80,000
        > years and still too long.
        >
        > If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
        > hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not be
        > same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would they
        > have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
        > they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
        > Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
        > message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
        > it??
        >
        > eduard
        > Eduard when you lay out the numbers on space it is seen as the cul de sac it turns out to be. When we say we are a terrestrial people we mean exactly what we say. Being a menber of an ecosystem is not like being able to change football teams. You are intimately united with the whole and will remain such. That is why cleving to supernatural schemes is so destructive to the whole. Jumping off the reality of this living system just makes no sense and makes the solid inhabitatts work harder to accomodate the fools. Bill
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: William
        > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [existlist] Map
        >
        > In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in time.
        > For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
        > confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
        > problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I see
        > two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be measured.The
        > other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
        > of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as energy
        > and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
        > certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
        > prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
        > I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
        > Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
        > interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
        > surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
        > galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
        > intergalactic space.
        > We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
        > and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
        > far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
        > human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
        > the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
        > from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
        > in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys each
        > containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
        > system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to worry
        > about interstellar space.
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
        >
        > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        >
      • eduardathome
        In order to go into interstellar space, we would have to become something other than what we are. The other reason is that we might not survive the radiation.
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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          In order to go into interstellar space, we would have to become something
          other than what we are. The other reason is that we might not survive the
          radiation. That's would be the playground of androids. But in the end, we
          are chained to this small blue marble and it is time that we realised it.

          eduard

          -----Original Message-----
          From: William
          Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:16 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [existlist] Re: Map



          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
          >
          > It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter
          > interstellar
          > space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was
          > launched
          > some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost
          > at
          > the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
          > edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but
          > basically
          > it is the same result.
          >
          > The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
          > km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.
          >
          > One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
          > away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed
          > of
          > voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
          > speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
          > human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is
          > 80,000
          > years and still too long.
          >
          > If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
          > hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not
          > be
          > same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would
          > they
          > have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
          > they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
          > Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
          > message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
          > it??
          >
          > eduard
          > Eduard when you lay out the numbers on space it is seen as the cul de
          > sac it turns out to be. When we say we are a terrestrial people we mean
          > exactly what we say. Being a menber of an ecosystem is not like being
          > able to change football teams. You are intimately united with the whole
          > and will remain such. That is why cleving to supernatural schemes is so
          > destructive to the whole. Jumping off the reality of this living system
          > just makes no sense and makes the solid inhabitatts work harder to
          > accomodate the fools. Bill
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: William
          > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [existlist] Map
          >
          > In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in
          > time.
          > For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
          > confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
          > problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I
          > see
          > two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be
          > measured.The
          > other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
          > of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as
          > energy
          > and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
          > certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
          > prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
          > I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
          > Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
          > interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
          > surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
          > galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
          > intergalactic space.
          > We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
          > and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
          > far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
          > human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
          > the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
          > from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
          > in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys
          > each
          > containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
          > system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to
          > worry
          > about interstellar space.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
          >
          > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
          >




          ------------------------------------

          Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        • Mary
          And so little little impediment to exploring the oceans, it s a wonder we haven t done more. Mary
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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            And so little little impediment to exploring the oceans, it's a wonder we haven't done more.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
            >
            > In order to go into interstellar space, we would have to become something
            > other than what we are. The other reason is that we might not survive the
            > radiation. That's would be the playground of androids. But in the end, we
            > are chained to this small blue marble and it is time that we realised it.
            >
            > eduard
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: William
            > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:16 PM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [existlist] Re: Map
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
            > >
            > > It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter
            > > interstellar
            > > space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was
            > > launched
            > > some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost
            > > at
            > > the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
            > > edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but
            > > basically
            > > it is the same result.
            > >
            > > The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
            > > km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.
            > >
            > > One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
            > > away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed
            > > of
            > > voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
            > > speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
            > > human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is
            > > 80,000
            > > years and still too long.
            > >
            > > If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
            > > hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not
            > > be
            > > same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would
            > > they
            > > have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
            > > they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
            > > Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
            > > message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
            > > it??
            > >
            > > eduard
            > > Eduard when you lay out the numbers on space it is seen as the cul de
            > > sac it turns out to be. When we say we are a terrestrial people we mean
            > > exactly what we say. Being a menber of an ecosystem is not like being
            > > able to change football teams. You are intimately united with the whole
            > > and will remain such. That is why cleving to supernatural schemes is so
            > > destructive to the whole. Jumping off the reality of this living system
            > > just makes no sense and makes the solid inhabitatts work harder to
            > > accomodate the fools. Bill
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: William
            > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
            > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [existlist] Map
            > >
            > > In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in
            > > time.
            > > For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
            > > confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
            > > problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I
            > > see
            > > two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be
            > > measured.The
            > > other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
            > > of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as
            > > energy
            > > and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
            > > certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
            > > prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
            > > I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
            > > Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
            > > interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
            > > surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
            > > galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
            > > intergalactic space.
            > > We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
            > > and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
            > > far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
            > > human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
            > > the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
            > > from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
            > > in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys
            > > each
            > > containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
            > > system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to
            > > worry
            > > about interstellar space.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
            > >
            > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
            >
            > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • William
            Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you flat
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
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              Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going in terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what is your static point?
              The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more than a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
              In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power driven will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience. When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see that thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons brillient idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll awe inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that massive forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an innorant, superstitous leadership.
              Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding , mankind was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes, the nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and alcohol.Raised catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took me years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by a superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a computer and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time. Earth,however will die when the sun goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
            • William
              Once you have orientated in this Map there is no lack of responsibility You are in chage of your ship and I am in charge of mine.If you start feeling self
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
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                Once you have orientated in this Map there is no lack of responsibility You are in chage of your ship and I am in charge of mine.If you start feeling self important look at the sea after a ship goes down.It does not miss a wave let alone a tide. Between now and death what could be in store? In college I had a debate about the chance of repetative history. Thinking scientifically a moments reality equils the sum of all atomic movements from the moment before.Linear time seems a one way progression with randomness dictating no repetition except for very small homogenous atomic samples. Randomness also negates the possibility of predicting the future. People of faith believe in prophesy As a nihilist I can only guess at probability. It seems we have a major impact , an asteroid or big meteor every one hundred million years. The one that probably did in the dinosaurs happned sixty five million years ago. About all that can be said is that such an impact can happen at any time.I see us as a target waiting for the inevatable hit. We cannot retreat into the past and we cannot predict the future. I think the American People deserve praise for their steadfast adherance to their democrecy during these bloody centuries. I hope we are all paid in the coin of personal freedom. A Modern American Philosophy may be short on faith but it has no end of hope. So many fine Americans have accomplished so much, we carry their hope in our genes. Bill
              • eduardathome
                I watched a commercial for Cadilac ATS. It is sequence of fast driving on twisting roads supposedly to show the performance of the car. But what they are
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                  I watched a commercial for Cadilac ATS. It is sequence of fast driving on
                  twisting roads supposedly to show the performance of the car. But what they
                  are selling is an idea ... an impression ... of what you might get by
                  putting down $40,000 or so.

                  Yet, in the end the ATS is going to move at the speed of the slowest car in
                  the traffic line. Eventually you may realise that it's a lie. And you are
                  living it.

                  eduard

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: William
                  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:30 PM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [existlist] Map

                  Matter, it does matter.The periodic table of elements is full . We know what
                  the universe is made of and where the various elements were formed in
                  different kinds of stars.
                  Size, size matters . One size does not fit all .The Hubble Space Telescope
                  sees even more up scale than an electron microscope does down scale.In
                  summary we know who we are and where and when we are . That`s a long line
                  of progress back to huddling in the forest fearing almost everything as
                  unknown. Fear shocks us into inactivity ,ignorance and submission.Those
                  who use fear to block progress are the true enemies of an intelligent
                  species.
                  Where did I come from? The answer to this question has inflamed the boundry
                  between religion and science even more than Galileo did with his
                  heliocentric theory.Darwin started it, and modern archeologists and
                  paleoanatomists have finished it. We evolved not from monkeys but from non
                  cellular protiens which began the biohistory of the earth. These compounds
                  appear today in the super thermal vents on the modern sea floor.We have the
                  whole phylogenetic sequence complete with carbon 14 dates as temporal
                  sign posts. It does not have to be believed,it is known. Nihilism,defined as
                  the absence of all belief, is possible for those individual risk takers
                  ready to accept the truth.I came from the stars ,the elements of the
                  molocules of my body being thrown out of supernovi billions of years ago.We
                  know the cosmic,geologic and biologic evolution of the animate and
                  inanimate things of this planet.To believe for the security of past
                  security is intellectual cowardice. To profit from
                  spreading false beliefs is cultural fraud. The lame argument that less
                  intelligent people need the creation myth to support their slight hold on
                  reality is bunk.Evoloution is a story whose characters were or are all
                  real.It can be told simply or in complex detail.Either way it holds
                  togeather because it is real and the truth.If the fundamental ideas of a
                  persons life are lies how can a person relate sucsusfully to the persons and
                  things around him?If his false mentors hold him in terror of devels,hell and
                  sin,how can an individual plan reasonable goals and live a reasonable happy
                  life? How can those of us who know better quietly watch as more lies and
                  liars are added to the culture? A Map can help. Our Map must not only state
                  where we came from physically but intellectually. As americans our
                  heritage is one of individual freedom as proposed by Jefferson and fought
                  for by Washington. We came here to be free from despots both secular and
                  religous. we have made great progress
                  by capitalising on reality and truth. Those seeking profit through lies
                  and false social control must be argued down, voted down and their minds
                  must be changed.Our constitution allows people to say and believe what
                  they wish but public dissenimation of ignorance,lies and bogotry must be
                  assailed with knowledge truth and tolerance.



                  ------------------------------------

                  Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                  Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                • eduardathome
                  [What else can I do? ] Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of hot water. Time is the fire in which we burn. eduard ... From:
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                    [What else can I do? ]

                    Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of hot
                    water.

                    Time is the fire in which we burn.

                    eduard

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: William
                    Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [existlist] Map

                    Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                    Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                    flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going in
                    terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what is
                    your static point?
                    The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more than
                    a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                    huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                    flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                    shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                    add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                    In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                    animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power driven
                    will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                    When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see that
                    thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons brillient
                    idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                    the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                    destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll awe
                    inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that massive
                    forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                    innorant, superstitous leadership.
                    Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                    then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding , mankind
                    was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes, the
                    nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and alcohol.Raised
                    catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took me
                    years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                    thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                    postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by a
                    superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                    they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a computer
                    and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                    self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                    instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                    Earth,however will die when the sun
                    goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                    our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                    or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?



                    ------------------------------------

                    Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                    Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                  • William
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                      >
                      > [What else can I do? ]
                      >
                      > Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of hot
                      > water.
                      >
                      > Time is the fire in which we burn.
                      >
                      > eduard
                      > Eduard, a bubble, indeed. In a sense we are the fuel that stokes the fire but not much more. So here I begin to have agreement with Dick when he says just enjoy what you can. He likes to see us as endless worriers so that is why I posted MAP. Once you have it figured out to your stisfaction you can be light as that bubble you speak of. If you pop you don`t have to care at all, ever again. Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested. I retain a sense of revenge against those who threatned and even harmed me. I still have a Liddy list and know he devised that contrivance from FN. I do not let it eat me but given a chance I would enjoy coring someones apple.I have few now that would claim this negative attention it is all fading into a homogenous past. That bit from Jerimiah Johnson was a product of such an attitude. I meant to convey his attitude of nonchalance. Alone in the cold in the mountains who knows what happned or how long ago. It is just in your neurons as the tracks in the snow are all obliterated by wind and ice and more snow. If you can like your bubble then good for you . I feel a bit old to begin a new life quest but I had one and I answered mine. Bill
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: William
                      > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [existlist] Map
                      >
                      > Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                      > Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                      > flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going in
                      > terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what is
                      > your static point?
                      > The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more than
                      > a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                      > huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                      > flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                      > shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                      > add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                      > In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                      > animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power driven
                      > will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                      > When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see that
                      > thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons brillient
                      > idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                      > the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                      > destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll awe
                      > inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that massive
                      > forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                      > innorant, superstitous leadership.
                      > Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                      > then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding , mankind
                      > was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes, the
                      > nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and alcohol.Raised
                      > catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took me
                      > years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                      > thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                      > postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by a
                      > superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                      > they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a computer
                      > and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                      > self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                      > instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                      > Earth,however will die when the sun
                      > goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                      > our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                      > or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                      >
                      > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                    • Mary
                      Bill, I work for causes I m interested in and care about, those I feel connected with like women s and children s issues, the environment, and safeguarding the
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bill,

                        I work for causes I'm interested in and care about, those I feel connected with like women's and children's issues, the environment, and safeguarding the democratic process. While I'm alive I may as well do something that helps others and pleases me. I work for what's in my power to affect but also accept what I can't. What lives on are my children and their hopes. Nothing and being are always becoming something. I am what I do; what else is there?

                        Mary

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

                        >Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested.
                      • William
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
                          >
                          > Bill,
                          >
                          > I work for causes I'm interested in and care about, those I feel connected with like women's and children's issues, the environment, and safeguarding the democratic process. While I'm alive I may as well do something that helps others and pleases me. I work for what's in my power to affect but also accept what I can't. What lives on are my children and their hopes. Nothing and being are always becoming something. I am what I do; what else is there?
                          >
                          > Mary
                          >Mary, perfectly understandable, thank you. I refuse to accept that I owe this existance anything. I did not ask to come here and I am not asking to leave. I still cling to the biologic imperative, Your born,you reproduce, you die. Two of those imperatives you have little choice about. We have both done our reproducing and can dispense with that. I must remember my enthusiasm for Obama and his politics. I had great interest and worked to see his election and reelection. I did not owe him that but owed it in retribution against the right wing that scewered me during Bush. I have a dollar amount they cost me and it will take the rest of Obama time to make it up. It was a milestone for me when the DOW went back above 1400. It is a rough way to keep score but now I want those lost profits returned. I`ll toot my own economic whistle for that tune and think this president will stay his economic course. I had a mentor who said money does not really count it is just a way of keeping score. I am still keeping score. Bill
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                          >
                          > >Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested.
                          >
                        • Dick.
                          You are NOT what you DO. You are thing which is doing it. Find out what that thing is. If you were NOT something then you would be able to do anything. And
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            You are NOT what you DO. You are thing which is doing it. Find out what
                            that thing is. If you were NOT something then you would be able to do
                            anything. And that does not mean BELIEVE what you are, it means FIND
                            OUT.
                            Having fun on facebook. I was banned yesterday after just one day :- )
                            But I got back on today with another ID and having fun again :- )

                            Dick Richardson

                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
                            >
                            > Bill,
                            >
                            > I work for causes I'm interested in and care about, those I feel
                            connected with like women's and children's issues, the environment, and
                            safeguarding the democratic process. While I'm alive I may as well do
                            something that helps others and pleases me. I work for what's in my
                            power to affect but also accept what I can't. What lives on are my
                            children and their hopes. Nothing and being are always becoming
                            something. I am what I do; what else is there?
                            >
                            > Mary
                            >
                            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                            >
                            > >Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to
                            explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested.
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • eduardathome
                            Although there is no grand purpose in it all, and you do what you can, it is also possible to conceive of some objective of your own that makes the living
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Although there is no grand purpose in it all, and you do what you can, it is
                              also possible to conceive of some objective of your own that makes the
                              living years more interesting.

                              eduard

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: William
                              Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:59 PM
                              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [existlist] Re: Map



                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                              >
                              > [What else can I do? ]
                              >
                              > Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of
                              > hot
                              > water.
                              >
                              > Time is the fire in which we burn.
                              >
                              > eduard
                              > Eduard, a bubble, indeed. In a sense we are the fuel that stokes the fire
                              > but not much more. So here I begin to have agreement with Dick when he
                              > says just enjoy what you can. He likes to see us as endless worriers so
                              > that is why I posted MAP. Once you have it figured out to your stisfaction
                              > you can be light as that bubble you speak of. If you pop you don`t have to
                              > care at all, ever again. Mary remains serious with her causes and that is
                              > why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be
                              > interested. I retain a sense of revenge against those who threatned and
                              > even harmed me. I still have a Liddy list and know he devised that
                              > contrivance from FN. I do not let it eat me but given a chance I would
                              > enjoy coring someones apple.I have few now that would claim this negative
                              > attention it is all fading into a homogenous past. That bit from Jerimiah
                              > Johnson was a product of such an attitude. I meant to convey his attitude
                              > of nonchalance. Alone in the cold in the
                              mountains who knows what happned or how long ago. It is just in your
                              neurons as the tracks in the snow are all obliterated by wind and ice and
                              more snow. If you can like your bubble then good for you . I feel a bit old
                              to begin a new life quest but I had one and I answered mine. Bill
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: William
                              > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [existlist] Map
                              >
                              > Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                              > Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                              > flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going
                              > in
                              > terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what
                              > is
                              > your static point?
                              > The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more
                              > than
                              > a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                              > huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                              > flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                              > shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                              > add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                              > In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                              > animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power
                              > driven
                              > will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                              > When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see
                              > that
                              > thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons
                              > brillient
                              > idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                              > the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                              > destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll
                              > awe
                              > inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that
                              > massive
                              > forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                              > innorant, superstitous leadership.
                              > Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                              > then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding ,
                              > mankind
                              > was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes,
                              > the
                              > nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and
                              > alcohol.Raised
                              > catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took
                              > me
                              > years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                              > thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                              > postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by
                              > a
                              > superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                              > they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a
                              > computer
                              > and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                              > self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                              > instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                              > Earth,however will die when the sun
                              > goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                              > our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                              > or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                              >
                              > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                              >




                              ------------------------------------

                              Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                              Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                            • William
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 3, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                                >
                                > Although there is no grand purpose in it all, and you do what you can, it is
                                > also possible to conceive of some objective of your own that makes the
                                > living years more interesting.
                                >
                                > eduard
                                > Eduard, I have kept it interesting but as to attaching some importance to it I have not. The whole Map exercise aimed at seeing our tenure here as fleeting and forgetable. To puff it up and demand importance and notation is just a false stance, the stance of a fool. Johnson ,after all his trials and combats, knew it was just all wiped away with the next snow. I have made choices and made them stick. That is what FN saw as the triumph of will. It is not a moral judgment it is a personal judgment and the will to power to accomplish some goal is the pinnacle of human endeavour. Once it is done it is gone and is better forgotten. I am beginning to have comfort in the fading of past matters. That is what should happen . The old times are not my home . Only the prior moment was my home and even that is now gone. The native american in me hates to be photographed. They thought the camera took your spirit. I think it sucks you into the past where you cannot truthfully live. I`m forgetting so I can make room for today. If you watch the bloody spectacle have a good Super Bowl. Bill
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: William
                                > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:59 PM
                                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [existlist] Re: Map
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                                > >
                                > > [What else can I do? ]
                                > >
                                > > Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of
                                > > hot
                                > > water.
                                > >
                                > > Time is the fire in which we burn.
                                > >
                                > > eduard
                                > > Eduard, a bubble, indeed. In a sense we are the fuel that stokes the fire
                                > > but not much more. So here I begin to have agreement with Dick when he
                                > > says just enjoy what you can. He likes to see us as endless worriers so
                                > > that is why I posted MAP. Once you have it figured out to your stisfaction
                                > > you can be light as that bubble you speak of. If you pop you don`t have to
                                > > care at all, ever again. Mary remains serious with her causes and that is
                                > > why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be
                                > > interested. I retain a sense of revenge against those who threatned and
                                > > even harmed me. I still have a Liddy list and know he devised that
                                > > contrivance from FN. I do not let it eat me but given a chance I would
                                > > enjoy coring someones apple.I have few now that would claim this negative
                                > > attention it is all fading into a homogenous past. That bit from Jerimiah
                                > > Johnson was a product of such an attitude. I meant to convey his attitude
                                > > of nonchalance. Alone in the cold in the
                                > mountains who knows what happned or how long ago. It is just in your
                                > neurons as the tracks in the snow are all obliterated by wind and ice and
                                > more snow. If you can like your bubble then good for you . I feel a bit old
                                > to begin a new life quest but I had one and I answered mine. Bill
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: William
                                > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                                > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Subject: [existlist] Map
                                > >
                                > > Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                                > > Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                                > > flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going
                                > > in
                                > > terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what
                                > > is
                                > > your static point?
                                > > The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more
                                > > than
                                > > a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                                > > huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                                > > flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                                > > shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                                > > add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                                > > In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                                > > animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power
                                > > driven
                                > > will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                                > > When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see
                                > > that
                                > > thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons
                                > > brillient
                                > > idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                                > > the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                                > > destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll
                                > > awe
                                > > inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that
                                > > massive
                                > > forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                                > > innorant, superstitous leadership.
                                > > Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                                > > then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding ,
                                > > mankind
                                > > was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes,
                                > > the
                                > > nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and
                                > > alcohol.Raised
                                > > catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took
                                > > me
                                > > years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                                > > thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                                > > postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by
                                > > a
                                > > superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                                > > they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a
                                > > computer
                                > > and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                                > > self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                                > > instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                                > > Earth,however will die when the sun
                                > > goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                                > > our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                                > > or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                                > >
                                > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                                >
                                > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                >
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