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  • William
    This period,1968 t0 1971,was a time of great unrest at the state university.I think the overwhelming spirit of rebellion coupled with a huge generations
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 29, 2013
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      This period,1968 t0 1971,was a time of great unrest at the state university.I think the overwhelming spirit of rebellion coupled with a huge generations unquenchable thirst for individual freedom changed me permanently.I had hated being a catholic for years , it was no problem to quit,I just quit going.Years earlier I had blerted out that study of the arts and sciences should replace religion. I was required to write an essay on herasy.It was not well recieved.
      I did not participate in demonstrations at university never the less I was beaten ,gassed and searched.Whe Robert Kennedy was assinated I abandoned politics and buried myself in the study of science. There was no heresy in biochemistry. No jack booted pig beat me in physiology. The only gas I smelled in microbiology was from growing molds and fungi in petri dishes.My brain filled itself with itself in neuroanatomy. My knowledge base was expanding enormously and I was now thinking as a scientist.The devils of bigotry and militarism howled in the streets, god fearing hard hats beat and tormented my fellow students . I hardly noticed what was going on in the blackness around me, I was studying the fire itself.
      So many science courses begin with a section on scientific notation and measurement. I butted it off over and over again.That was a mistake as the media was the message and still is.Knowing and understanding the difference amoung one,ten,one hundred,one thousand,ten thousand,one hundred thousand,one million,ten million,one hundred million,one billion,ten billion,one hundred billion,one trillion ect is the core of comprehending time ,space,matter,size and their interelations.Time is a construct of man .Men noted the regularity of planitary motion and used it to order activities such as planting ,migrations and harvest. Stonehenge,the pyramids and the Myan temples all relate to winter and summer soltice. I think it is important that when I answer Who I am, I say I am a member of the species who created time.
      One final observationon on time, the universe appears to be 3.7 billion years old. man as a distinct species is somewhere around five million years old. Relatively we have been in existance a very short span. The greter expansion of scientific knowledge have taken place in the last four hundred years. The changes in the twenteth century are unprecedented. Many have not kept pace intellectually and therefore philosophically .I resent being ranked as spiritually bankrupt by people by people who cannot or will not understand the real ,modern world.From Socrates to Galileo and Darwin to Freud, , these brave risk takers have pushed back the darkness of myth and religion. I find kindness a more sparse commodity in the face of the ranting,accusations, and demands of foolish, bigoted fellow humans, who will not even consider the ideas of the great thinkers and scientists.
    • William
      In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in time. For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially confounded
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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        In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in time. For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I see two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be measured.The other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as energy and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
        I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth. Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more intergalactic space.
        We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys each containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to worry about interstellar space.
      • William
        Matter, it does matter.The periodic table of elements is full . We know what the universe is made of and where the various elements were formed in different
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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          Matter, it does matter.The periodic table of elements is full . We know what the universe is made of and where the various elements were formed in different kinds of stars.
          Size, size matters . One size does not fit all .The Hubble Space Telescope sees even more up scale than an electron microscope does down scale.In summary we know who we are and where and when we are . That`s a long line of progress back to huddling in the forest fearing almost everything as unknown. Fear shocks us into inactivity ,ignorance and submission.Those who use fear to block progress are the true enemies of an intelligent species.
          Where did I come from? The answer to this question has inflamed the boundry between religion and science even more than Galileo did with his heliocentric theory.Darwin started it, and modern archeologists and paleoanatomists have finished it. We evolved not from monkeys but from non cellular protiens which began the biohistory of the earth. These compounds appear today in the super thermal vents on the modern sea floor.We have the whole phylogenetic sequence complete with carbon 14 dates as temporal sign posts. It does not have to be believed,it is known. Nihilism,defined as the absence of all belief, is possible for those individual risk takers ready to accept the truth.I came from the stars ,the elements of the molocules of my body being thrown out of supernovi billions of years ago.We know the cosmic,geologic and biologic evolution of the animate and inanimate things of this planet.To believe for the security of past security is intellectual cowardice. To profit from spreading false beliefs is cultural fraud. The lame argument that less intelligent people need the creation myth to support their slight hold on reality is bunk.Evoloution is a story whose characters were or are all real.It can be told simply or in complex detail.Either way it holds togeather because it is real and the truth.If the fundamental ideas of a persons life are lies how can a person relate sucsusfully to the persons and things around him?If his false mentors hold him in terror of devels,hell and sin,how can an individual plan reasonable goals and live a reasonable happy life? How can those of us who know better quietly watch as more lies and liars are added to the culture? A Map can help. Our Map must not only state where we came from physically but intellectually. As americans our heritage is one of individual freedom as proposed by Jefferson and fought for by Washington. We came here to be free from despots both secular and religous. we have made great progress by capitalising on reality and truth. Those seeking profit through lies and false social control must be argued down, voted down and their minds must be changed.Our constitution allows people to say and believe what they wish but public dissenimation of ignorance,lies and bogotry must be assailed with knowledge truth and tolerance.
        • eduardathome
          It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter interstellar space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was launched some
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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            It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter interstellar
            space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was launched
            some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost at
            the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
            edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but basically
            it is the same result.

            The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
            km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.

            One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
            away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed of
            voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
            speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
            human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is 80,000
            years and still too long.

            If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
            hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not be
            same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would they
            have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
            they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
            Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
            message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
            it??

            eduard



            -----Original Message-----
            From: William
            Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [existlist] Map

            In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in time.
            For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
            confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
            problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I see
            two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be measured.The
            other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
            of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as energy
            and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
            certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
            prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
            I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
            Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
            interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
            surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
            galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
            intergalactic space.
            We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
            and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
            far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
            human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
            the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
            from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
            in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys each
            containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
            system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to worry
            about interstellar space.



            ------------------------------------

            Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

            Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
          • William
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
              >
              > It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter interstellar
              > space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was launched
              > some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost at
              > the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
              > edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but basically
              > it is the same result.
              >
              > The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
              > km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.
              >
              > One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
              > away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed of
              > voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
              > speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
              > human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is 80,000
              > years and still too long.
              >
              > If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
              > hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not be
              > same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would they
              > have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
              > they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
              > Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
              > message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
              > it??
              >
              > eduard
              > Eduard when you lay out the numbers on space it is seen as the cul de sac it turns out to be. When we say we are a terrestrial people we mean exactly what we say. Being a menber of an ecosystem is not like being able to change football teams. You are intimately united with the whole and will remain such. That is why cleving to supernatural schemes is so destructive to the whole. Jumping off the reality of this living system just makes no sense and makes the solid inhabitatts work harder to accomodate the fools. Bill
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: William
              > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [existlist] Map
              >
              > In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in time.
              > For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
              > confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
              > problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I see
              > two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be measured.The
              > other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
              > of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as energy
              > and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
              > certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
              > prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
              > I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
              > Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
              > interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
              > surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
              > galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
              > intergalactic space.
              > We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
              > and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
              > far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
              > human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
              > the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
              > from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
              > in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys each
              > containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
              > system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to worry
              > about interstellar space.
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
              >
              > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • eduardathome
              In order to go into interstellar space, we would have to become something other than what we are. The other reason is that we might not survive the radiation.
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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                In order to go into interstellar space, we would have to become something
                other than what we are. The other reason is that we might not survive the
                radiation. That's would be the playground of androids. But in the end, we
                are chained to this small blue marble and it is time that we realised it.

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: William
                Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:16 PM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Map



                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                >
                > It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter
                > interstellar
                > space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was
                > launched
                > some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost
                > at
                > the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
                > edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but
                > basically
                > it is the same result.
                >
                > The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
                > km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.
                >
                > One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
                > away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed
                > of
                > voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
                > speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
                > human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is
                > 80,000
                > years and still too long.
                >
                > If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
                > hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not
                > be
                > same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would
                > they
                > have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
                > they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
                > Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
                > message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
                > it??
                >
                > eduard
                > Eduard when you lay out the numbers on space it is seen as the cul de
                > sac it turns out to be. When we say we are a terrestrial people we mean
                > exactly what we say. Being a menber of an ecosystem is not like being
                > able to change football teams. You are intimately united with the whole
                > and will remain such. That is why cleving to supernatural schemes is so
                > destructive to the whole. Jumping off the reality of this living system
                > just makes no sense and makes the solid inhabitatts work harder to
                > accomodate the fools. Bill
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: William
                > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [existlist] Map
                >
                > In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in
                > time.
                > For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
                > confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
                > problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I
                > see
                > two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be
                > measured.The
                > other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
                > of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as
                > energy
                > and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
                > certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
                > prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
                > I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
                > Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
                > interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
                > surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
                > galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
                > intergalactic space.
                > We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
                > and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
                > far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
                > human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
                > the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
                > from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
                > in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys
                > each
                > containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
                > system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to
                > worry
                > about interstellar space.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                >
                > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                >




                ------------------------------------

                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
              • Mary
                And so little little impediment to exploring the oceans, it s a wonder we haven t done more. Mary
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 31, 2013
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                  And so little little impediment to exploring the oceans, it's a wonder we haven't done more.

                  Mary

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                  >
                  > In order to go into interstellar space, we would have to become something
                  > other than what we are. The other reason is that we might not survive the
                  > radiation. That's would be the playground of androids. But in the end, we
                  > are chained to this small blue marble and it is time that we realised it.
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: William
                  > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:16 PM
                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Map
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It is unlikely that humans, in their present form, would enter
                  > > interstellar
                  > > space. For one thing, our lifetimes do not permit it. Voyager was
                  > > launched
                  > > some 35 years ago and has yet to reach interstellar space, albeit almost
                  > > at
                  > > the edge. Who is going spend 35 years of their life just getting to the
                  > > edge of the solar system?? Granted they would travel faster, but
                  > > basically
                  > > it is the same result.
                  > >
                  > > The closest star is 4.2 light years away. Voyager has a speed of 15
                  > > km/second or about 5*10^8 km/year.
                  > >
                  > > One light year is 9.5*10^12 km so the closest star is about 4.0*10^13 km
                  > > away. Dividing through the time to get to the closest star at the speed
                  > > of
                  > > voyager is about 800,000 years. Even if you significantly increased the
                  > > speed of the space ship, it is still a lot of years and nowhere close to a
                  > > human life. If the speed is increased by an order of magnitude it is
                  > > 80,000
                  > > years and still too long.
                  > >
                  > > If you think in terms of a colony of humans travelling over say a few
                  > > hundred generations, the problem is that the people who arrive would not
                  > > be
                  > > same as having left. I mean in the sense of their humanity. And would
                  > > they
                  > > have any interest in sending back some message of their arrival?? Would
                  > > they have the skills and knowledge to survive on some unknown planet??
                  > > Would the humans remaining on earth have any interest in receiving the
                  > > message?? And even if they did have an interest, what would they do about
                  > > it??
                  > >
                  > > eduard
                  > > Eduard when you lay out the numbers on space it is seen as the cul de
                  > > sac it turns out to be. When we say we are a terrestrial people we mean
                  > > exactly what we say. Being a menber of an ecosystem is not like being
                  > > able to change football teams. You are intimately united with the whole
                  > > and will remain such. That is why cleving to supernatural schemes is so
                  > > destructive to the whole. Jumping off the reality of this living system
                  > > just makes no sense and makes the solid inhabitatts work harder to
                  > > accomodate the fools. Bill
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: William
                  > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:43 PM
                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [existlist] Map
                  > >
                  > > In considering who I am I should orient myself in space as well as in
                  > > time.
                  > > For many years the concept of space has troubled me. I was especially
                  > > confounded by Eienstein`s theory of mass bending space.I have solved the
                  > > problem to my partial satisfaction but I know my ideas are simplistic. I
                  > > see
                  > > two kinds of space. One is the space around objects, it can be
                  > > measured.The
                  > > other is the space that may or may not exist devoid of matter.If this kind
                  > > of space is invaded by energy it becomes the first kind of space as
                  > > energy
                  > > and mass are interconvertable. The current research on the Higgs Boson
                  > > certainly enters here.Defining nothingness is a futile act of trying to
                  > > prove a negative hypothesis. I think it to be impossible.
                  > > I live in surface space the space defined by the surface of the earth.
                  > > Encompassing surface space is atmospheric space. It is surrounded by
                  > > interplanitary space which is surrounded by interstellar space which is
                  > > surrounded by intergalactic space. Since the universe is expanding, the
                  > > galaxys are invading nothingness thus creating -------------------more
                  > > intergalactic space.
                  > > We call our planet, earth, our star ,sun,our star system the solar system
                  > > and our galaxy the Milky way.Outside our galaxy things get really big and
                  > > far away. Strange entities exist in intergalactic space .At any rate no
                  > > human has entered interstellar space, we have travled a short distance to
                  > > the moon in interplanitary space. Models of the universe have been built
                  > > from pictures taken from the Hubble Space telescope. We lie inconspicously
                  > > in our galaxy on one of many tentacles. There are billions of galaxys
                  > > each
                  > > containing billions of stars. In my lifetime we will not leave our solar
                  > > system with a manned vehicle. At the present it is beyond our depth to
                  > > worry
                  > > about interstellar space.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                  > >
                  > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                  >
                  > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                • William
                  Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you flat
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
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                    Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going in terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what is your static point?
                    The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more than a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                    In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power driven will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience. When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see that thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons brillient idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll awe inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that massive forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an innorant, superstitous leadership.
                    Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding , mankind was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes, the nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and alcohol.Raised catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took me years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by a superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a computer and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time. Earth,however will die when the sun goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                  • William
                    Once you have orientated in this Map there is no lack of responsibility You are in chage of your ship and I am in charge of mine.If you start feeling self
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 1, 2013
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                      Once you have orientated in this Map there is no lack of responsibility You are in chage of your ship and I am in charge of mine.If you start feeling self important look at the sea after a ship goes down.It does not miss a wave let alone a tide. Between now and death what could be in store? In college I had a debate about the chance of repetative history. Thinking scientifically a moments reality equils the sum of all atomic movements from the moment before.Linear time seems a one way progression with randomness dictating no repetition except for very small homogenous atomic samples. Randomness also negates the possibility of predicting the future. People of faith believe in prophesy As a nihilist I can only guess at probability. It seems we have a major impact , an asteroid or big meteor every one hundred million years. The one that probably did in the dinosaurs happned sixty five million years ago. About all that can be said is that such an impact can happen at any time.I see us as a target waiting for the inevatable hit. We cannot retreat into the past and we cannot predict the future. I think the American People deserve praise for their steadfast adherance to their democrecy during these bloody centuries. I hope we are all paid in the coin of personal freedom. A Modern American Philosophy may be short on faith but it has no end of hope. So many fine Americans have accomplished so much, we carry their hope in our genes. Bill
                    • eduardathome
                      I watched a commercial for Cadilac ATS. It is sequence of fast driving on twisting roads supposedly to show the performance of the car. But what they are
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                        I watched a commercial for Cadilac ATS. It is sequence of fast driving on
                        twisting roads supposedly to show the performance of the car. But what they
                        are selling is an idea ... an impression ... of what you might get by
                        putting down $40,000 or so.

                        Yet, in the end the ATS is going to move at the speed of the slowest car in
                        the traffic line. Eventually you may realise that it's a lie. And you are
                        living it.

                        eduard

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: William
                        Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:30 PM
                        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [existlist] Map

                        Matter, it does matter.The periodic table of elements is full . We know what
                        the universe is made of and where the various elements were formed in
                        different kinds of stars.
                        Size, size matters . One size does not fit all .The Hubble Space Telescope
                        sees even more up scale than an electron microscope does down scale.In
                        summary we know who we are and where and when we are . That`s a long line
                        of progress back to huddling in the forest fearing almost everything as
                        unknown. Fear shocks us into inactivity ,ignorance and submission.Those
                        who use fear to block progress are the true enemies of an intelligent
                        species.
                        Where did I come from? The answer to this question has inflamed the boundry
                        between religion and science even more than Galileo did with his
                        heliocentric theory.Darwin started it, and modern archeologists and
                        paleoanatomists have finished it. We evolved not from monkeys but from non
                        cellular protiens which began the biohistory of the earth. These compounds
                        appear today in the super thermal vents on the modern sea floor.We have the
                        whole phylogenetic sequence complete with carbon 14 dates as temporal
                        sign posts. It does not have to be believed,it is known. Nihilism,defined as
                        the absence of all belief, is possible for those individual risk takers
                        ready to accept the truth.I came from the stars ,the elements of the
                        molocules of my body being thrown out of supernovi billions of years ago.We
                        know the cosmic,geologic and biologic evolution of the animate and
                        inanimate things of this planet.To believe for the security of past
                        security is intellectual cowardice. To profit from
                        spreading false beliefs is cultural fraud. The lame argument that less
                        intelligent people need the creation myth to support their slight hold on
                        reality is bunk.Evoloution is a story whose characters were or are all
                        real.It can be told simply or in complex detail.Either way it holds
                        togeather because it is real and the truth.If the fundamental ideas of a
                        persons life are lies how can a person relate sucsusfully to the persons and
                        things around him?If his false mentors hold him in terror of devels,hell and
                        sin,how can an individual plan reasonable goals and live a reasonable happy
                        life? How can those of us who know better quietly watch as more lies and
                        liars are added to the culture? A Map can help. Our Map must not only state
                        where we came from physically but intellectually. As americans our
                        heritage is one of individual freedom as proposed by Jefferson and fought
                        for by Washington. We came here to be free from despots both secular and
                        religous. we have made great progress
                        by capitalising on reality and truth. Those seeking profit through lies
                        and false social control must be argued down, voted down and their minds
                        must be changed.Our constitution allows people to say and believe what
                        they wish but public dissenimation of ignorance,lies and bogotry must be
                        assailed with knowledge truth and tolerance.



                        ------------------------------------

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                      • eduardathome
                        [What else can I do? ] Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of hot water. Time is the fire in which we burn. eduard ... From:
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                          [What else can I do? ]

                          Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of hot
                          water.

                          Time is the fire in which we burn.

                          eduard

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: William
                          Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [existlist] Map

                          Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                          Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                          flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going in
                          terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what is
                          your static point?
                          The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more than
                          a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                          huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                          flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                          shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                          add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                          In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                          animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power driven
                          will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                          When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see that
                          thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons brillient
                          idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                          the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                          destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll awe
                          inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that massive
                          forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                          innorant, superstitous leadership.
                          Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                          then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding , mankind
                          was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes, the
                          nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and alcohol.Raised
                          catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took me
                          years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                          thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                          postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by a
                          superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                          they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a computer
                          and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                          self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                          instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                          Earth,however will die when the sun
                          goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                          our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                          or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?



                          ------------------------------------

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                          Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                        • William
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                            >
                            > [What else can I do? ]
                            >
                            > Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of hot
                            > water.
                            >
                            > Time is the fire in which we burn.
                            >
                            > eduard
                            > Eduard, a bubble, indeed. In a sense we are the fuel that stokes the fire but not much more. So here I begin to have agreement with Dick when he says just enjoy what you can. He likes to see us as endless worriers so that is why I posted MAP. Once you have it figured out to your stisfaction you can be light as that bubble you speak of. If you pop you don`t have to care at all, ever again. Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested. I retain a sense of revenge against those who threatned and even harmed me. I still have a Liddy list and know he devised that contrivance from FN. I do not let it eat me but given a chance I would enjoy coring someones apple.I have few now that would claim this negative attention it is all fading into a homogenous past. That bit from Jerimiah Johnson was a product of such an attitude. I meant to convey his attitude of nonchalance. Alone in the cold in the mountains who knows what happned or how long ago. It is just in your neurons as the tracks in the snow are all obliterated by wind and ice and more snow. If you can like your bubble then good for you . I feel a bit old to begin a new life quest but I had one and I answered mine. Bill
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: William
                            > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [existlist] Map
                            >
                            > Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                            > Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                            > flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going in
                            > terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what is
                            > your static point?
                            > The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more than
                            > a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                            > huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                            > flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                            > shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                            > add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                            > In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                            > animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power driven
                            > will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                            > When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see that
                            > thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons brillient
                            > idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                            > the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                            > destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll awe
                            > inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that massive
                            > forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                            > innorant, superstitous leadership.
                            > Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                            > then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding , mankind
                            > was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes, the
                            > nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and alcohol.Raised
                            > catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took me
                            > years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                            > thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                            > postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by a
                            > superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                            > they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a computer
                            > and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                            > self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                            > instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                            > Earth,however will die when the sun
                            > goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                            > our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                            > or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                            >
                            > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                          • Mary
                            Bill, I work for causes I m interested in and care about, those I feel connected with like women s and children s issues, the environment, and safeguarding the
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                              Bill,

                              I work for causes I'm interested in and care about, those I feel connected with like women's and children's issues, the environment, and safeguarding the democratic process. While I'm alive I may as well do something that helps others and pleases me. I work for what's in my power to affect but also accept what I can't. What lives on are my children and their hopes. Nothing and being are always becoming something. I am what I do; what else is there?

                              Mary

                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:

                              >Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested.
                            • William
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
                                >
                                > Bill,
                                >
                                > I work for causes I'm interested in and care about, those I feel connected with like women's and children's issues, the environment, and safeguarding the democratic process. While I'm alive I may as well do something that helps others and pleases me. I work for what's in my power to affect but also accept what I can't. What lives on are my children and their hopes. Nothing and being are always becoming something. I am what I do; what else is there?
                                >
                                > Mary
                                >Mary, perfectly understandable, thank you. I refuse to accept that I owe this existance anything. I did not ask to come here and I am not asking to leave. I still cling to the biologic imperative, Your born,you reproduce, you die. Two of those imperatives you have little choice about. We have both done our reproducing and can dispense with that. I must remember my enthusiasm for Obama and his politics. I had great interest and worked to see his election and reelection. I did not owe him that but owed it in retribution against the right wing that scewered me during Bush. I have a dollar amount they cost me and it will take the rest of Obama time to make it up. It was a milestone for me when the DOW went back above 1400. It is a rough way to keep score but now I want those lost profits returned. I`ll toot my own economic whistle for that tune and think this president will stay his economic course. I had a mentor who said money does not really count it is just a way of keeping score. I am still keeping score. Bill
                                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                                >
                                > >Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested.
                                >
                              • Dick.
                                You are NOT what you DO. You are thing which is doing it. Find out what that thing is. If you were NOT something then you would be able to do anything. And
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                                  You are NOT what you DO. You are thing which is doing it. Find out what
                                  that thing is. If you were NOT something then you would be able to do
                                  anything. And that does not mean BELIEVE what you are, it means FIND
                                  OUT.
                                  Having fun on facebook. I was banned yesterday after just one day :- )
                                  But I got back on today with another ID and having fun again :- )

                                  Dick Richardson

                                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Bill,
                                  >
                                  > I work for causes I'm interested in and care about, those I feel
                                  connected with like women's and children's issues, the environment, and
                                  safeguarding the democratic process. While I'm alive I may as well do
                                  something that helps others and pleases me. I work for what's in my
                                  power to affect but also accept what I can't. What lives on are my
                                  children and their hopes. Nothing and being are always becoming
                                  something. I am what I do; what else is there?
                                  >
                                  > Mary
                                  >
                                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Mary remains serious with her causes and that is why I invite her to
                                  explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be interested.
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • eduardathome
                                  Although there is no grand purpose in it all, and you do what you can, it is also possible to conceive of some objective of your own that makes the living
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 2, 2013
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                                    Although there is no grand purpose in it all, and you do what you can, it is
                                    also possible to conceive of some objective of your own that makes the
                                    living years more interesting.

                                    eduard

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: William
                                    Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:59 PM
                                    To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [existlist] Re: Map



                                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                                    >
                                    > [What else can I do? ]
                                    >
                                    > Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of
                                    > hot
                                    > water.
                                    >
                                    > Time is the fire in which we burn.
                                    >
                                    > eduard
                                    > Eduard, a bubble, indeed. In a sense we are the fuel that stokes the fire
                                    > but not much more. So here I begin to have agreement with Dick when he
                                    > says just enjoy what you can. He likes to see us as endless worriers so
                                    > that is why I posted MAP. Once you have it figured out to your stisfaction
                                    > you can be light as that bubble you speak of. If you pop you don`t have to
                                    > care at all, ever again. Mary remains serious with her causes and that is
                                    > why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be
                                    > interested. I retain a sense of revenge against those who threatned and
                                    > even harmed me. I still have a Liddy list and know he devised that
                                    > contrivance from FN. I do not let it eat me but given a chance I would
                                    > enjoy coring someones apple.I have few now that would claim this negative
                                    > attention it is all fading into a homogenous past. That bit from Jerimiah
                                    > Johnson was a product of such an attitude. I meant to convey his attitude
                                    > of nonchalance. Alone in the cold in the
                                    mountains who knows what happned or how long ago. It is just in your
                                    neurons as the tracks in the snow are all obliterated by wind and ice and
                                    more snow. If you can like your bubble then good for you . I feel a bit old
                                    to begin a new life quest but I had one and I answered mine. Bill
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: William
                                    > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [existlist] Map
                                    >
                                    > Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                                    > Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                                    > flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going
                                    > in
                                    > terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what
                                    > is
                                    > your static point?
                                    > The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more
                                    > than
                                    > a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                                    > huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                                    > flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                                    > shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                                    > add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                                    > In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                                    > animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power
                                    > driven
                                    > will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                                    > When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see
                                    > that
                                    > thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons
                                    > brillient
                                    > idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                                    > the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                                    > destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll
                                    > awe
                                    > inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that
                                    > massive
                                    > forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                                    > innorant, superstitous leadership.
                                    > Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                                    > then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding ,
                                    > mankind
                                    > was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes,
                                    > the
                                    > nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and
                                    > alcohol.Raised
                                    > catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took
                                    > me
                                    > years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                                    > thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                                    > postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by
                                    > a
                                    > superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                                    > they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a
                                    > computer
                                    > and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                                    > self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                                    > instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                                    > Earth,however will die when the sun
                                    > goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                                    > our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                                    > or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
                                    >
                                    > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                    >




                                    ------------------------------------

                                    Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                                    Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                  • William
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 3, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Although there is no grand purpose in it all, and you do what you can, it is
                                      > also possible to conceive of some objective of your own that makes the
                                      > living years more interesting.
                                      >
                                      > eduard
                                      > Eduard, I have kept it interesting but as to attaching some importance to it I have not. The whole Map exercise aimed at seeing our tenure here as fleeting and forgetable. To puff it up and demand importance and notation is just a false stance, the stance of a fool. Johnson ,after all his trials and combats, knew it was just all wiped away with the next snow. I have made choices and made them stick. That is what FN saw as the triumph of will. It is not a moral judgment it is a personal judgment and the will to power to accomplish some goal is the pinnacle of human endeavour. Once it is done it is gone and is better forgotten. I am beginning to have comfort in the fading of past matters. That is what should happen . The old times are not my home . Only the prior moment was my home and even that is now gone. The native american in me hates to be photographed. They thought the camera took your spirit. I think it sucks you into the past where you cannot truthfully live. I`m forgetting so I can make room for today. If you watch the bloody spectacle have a good Super Bowl. Bill
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: William
                                      > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:59 PM
                                      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [existlist] Re: Map
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > [What else can I do? ]
                                      > >
                                      > > Nothing. You are flowing with time and as much as a bubble forms out of
                                      > > hot
                                      > > water.
                                      > >
                                      > > Time is the fire in which we burn.
                                      > >
                                      > > eduard
                                      > > Eduard, a bubble, indeed. In a sense we are the fuel that stokes the fire
                                      > > but not much more. So here I begin to have agreement with Dick when he
                                      > > says just enjoy what you can. He likes to see us as endless worriers so
                                      > > that is why I posted MAP. Once you have it figured out to your stisfaction
                                      > > you can be light as that bubble you speak of. If you pop you don`t have to
                                      > > care at all, ever again. Mary remains serious with her causes and that is
                                      > > why I invite her to explain why . Not that she has to, but I would be
                                      > > interested. I retain a sense of revenge against those who threatned and
                                      > > even harmed me. I still have a Liddy list and know he devised that
                                      > > contrivance from FN. I do not let it eat me but given a chance I would
                                      > > enjoy coring someones apple.I have few now that would claim this negative
                                      > > attention it is all fading into a homogenous past. That bit from Jerimiah
                                      > > Johnson was a product of such an attitude. I meant to convey his attitude
                                      > > of nonchalance. Alone in the cold in the
                                      > mountains who knows what happned or how long ago. It is just in your
                                      > neurons as the tracks in the snow are all obliterated by wind and ice and
                                      > more snow. If you can like your bubble then good for you . I feel a bit old
                                      > to begin a new life quest but I had one and I answered mine. Bill
                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > From: William
                                      > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:01 PM
                                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Subject: [existlist] Map
                                      > >
                                      > > Now I want to talk about where we are going.This is like the moment in the
                                      > > Hunchback of Notre Dame when Quasimodo appears,the audience gasps.For you
                                      > > flat earth devotees and terra centrics let us examine where we are going
                                      > > in
                                      > > terms of where we are.No one wants to accept a relative view but what
                                      > > is
                                      > > your static point?
                                      > > The earth is rotating at 25000 mph around its own axis. We travel more
                                      > > than
                                      > > a billion years per annum in our race around the sun .The sun is moving at
                                      > > huge angular velocity around the center of the galaxy and the galaxys are
                                      > > flying away from each other fast enough to cause their light to red
                                      > > shift.Even though we move in all these various directions and speeds they
                                      > > add up to only a change of day to night to us as observers.
                                      > > In our old earth centered view of the universe man ,the only rational
                                      > > animal,was the big deal.The infallible ideas of popes and the power
                                      > > driven
                                      > > will of kings consigned the individual to wrote learning and obedience.
                                      > > When we place ourselves in the world that science reveals to us, we see
                                      > > that
                                      > > thought can lead us to extinction as well as prominance.Jeffersons
                                      > > brillient
                                      > > idea of democratic consensus promoting peace and progress must operate in
                                      > > the clear light of reality.WW 2 was our first look at the wildly
                                      > > destructive side of high science. Hiroshima was shocking . Bikini atoll
                                      > > awe
                                      > > inspiring and Schumacher Levi`s date with Jupiter left no doubt that
                                      > > massive
                                      > > forces can decimate us all.We are in a big show and can ill afford an
                                      > > innorant, superstitous leadership.
                                      > > Now for quasimodo. Where am I going? I am going to die. What will I know
                                      > > then, I will know nothing.After centuries of priestly hand holding ,
                                      > > mankind
                                      > > was presented the truth by the phenominologists,existentialists and yes,
                                      > > the
                                      > > nihilists. The shock killed many of tham by suicide drugs and
                                      > > alcohol.Raised
                                      > > catholic I was taught I was a child of god and an heir to heaven. It took
                                      > > me
                                      > > years of excuse making to accept my personal mortality. For a time I
                                      > > thought of Chardins hyperpersonalisation as an escape, Bullshit. Then I
                                      > > postulated that thought goes on forever into space to be followed back by
                                      > > a
                                      > > superior species who would reincarnate me.Why should they give a damn if
                                      > > they are that superior. I even decided I could put my mind into a
                                      > > computer
                                      > > and clone my body and then download my brillience into a new and viril
                                      > > self. I think all this sort of foolishness derives from our survival
                                      > > instinct and who knows we may learn to survive for a very long time.
                                      > > Earth,however will die when the sun
                                      > > goes Nova. What a fine word,Nova, from the latin for "New". The atoms of
                                      > > our ashes will be blasted into intersteller space to reform into something
                                      > > or someone post nova. I can now live with that. What else can I do?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
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                                      > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
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