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Consciousness requires a brain?

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  • Dick.
    Consciousness requires a brain? [ Some talk of Cosmic Consciousness, so what is that like? You ask them this and not a bloody one of them answers you. So, are
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 24, 2013
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      Consciousness requires a brain?



      [ "Some talk of Cosmic Consciousness, so what is that like? You ask them
      this and not a bloody one of them answers you. So, are they talking
      about something which they know by experience? If they know it then they
      could talk about it and describe what it is like. But they don't."




      I agree entirely. These words [cosmic consciousness] that are dreamt up
      and passed off as being some kind of reality. And the speaker requires
      that everyone should pause for the moment and accept it. Consciousness
      is simply a function. We are conscious when we are aware of stuff, like
      the cold out there. The brain doesn't shut down when you are not being
      aware of something. It kinda runs on idle, since being aware is actually
      being aware of sensor differences. Humans quickly become unaware when
      the scene does not change. Like I cannot feel my watch at this moment
      even though it is a weight on my wrist. Which is also the reason why I
      have lost the recognition [interesting word] of certain things in my
      room, because I see them all the time. Consciousness requires a brain.
      The Cosmos does not have a brain and thus cannot be said to be
      conscious. eduard ]



      So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you
      would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you
      just believe it. If so then you are a believer. And you imply that
      believers are nuts :- ) When did you study your brain by the way? And
      what did you use to study it with? Anyway, how does the brain create
      consciousness? And what is the very first thing that it is conscious of?
      And where and when does that first consciousness come on the scene and
      what is it like?



      Now, what if consciousness just passed through the brain and that the
      brain being that of a transmitter and a receiver? Does a radio set
      create the program that passes through it? Do you have proof that that
      is not the case? Are you absolutely certain? Believers often seem to be
      certain of things do they not. And if so then why do they need to
      believe it? Also, can you answer my question – Given that something
      HAS conscious experience then what exists to become conscious of?



      rwr







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eduardathome
      So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you just believe it.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 24, 2013
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        "So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you
        would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you
        just believe it."

        Isn't it sort of obvious. If I say I have a conscious experience, where
        else would this occur other than in the brain?? Are you suggesting that the
        conscious experience can occur elsewhere??

        If I say I have a driving experience then can it be said that this
        experience occurs other than in my car. Do I need to prove this??

        eduard

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Dick.
        Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:58 AM
        To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [existlist] Consciousness requires a brain?


        Consciousness requires a brain?



        [ "Some talk of Cosmic Consciousness, so what is that like? You ask them
        this and not a bloody one of them answers you. So, are they talking
        about something which they know by experience? If they know it then they
        could talk about it and describe what it is like. But they don't."




        I agree entirely. These words [cosmic consciousness] that are dreamt up
        and passed off as being some kind of reality. And the speaker requires
        that everyone should pause for the moment and accept it. Consciousness
        is simply a function. We are conscious when we are aware of stuff, like
        the cold out there. The brain doesn't shut down when you are not being
        aware of something. It kinda runs on idle, since being aware is actually
        being aware of sensor differences. Humans quickly become unaware when
        the scene does not change. Like I cannot feel my watch at this moment
        even though it is a weight on my wrist. Which is also the reason why I
        have lost the recognition [interesting word] of certain things in my
        room, because I see them all the time. Consciousness requires a brain.
        The Cosmos does not have a brain and thus cannot be said to be
        conscious. eduard ]



        So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you
        would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you
        just believe it. If so then you are a believer. And you imply that
        believers are nuts :- ) When did you study your brain by the way? And
        what did you use to study it with? Anyway, how does the brain create
        consciousness? And what is the very first thing that it is conscious of?
        And where and when does that first consciousness come on the scene and
        what is it like?



        Now, what if consciousness just passed through the brain and that the
        brain being that of a transmitter and a receiver? Does a radio set
        create the program that passes through it? Do you have proof that that
        is not the case? Are you absolutely certain? Believers often seem to be
        certain of things do they not. And if so then why do they need to
        believe it? Also, can you answer my question – Given that something
        HAS conscious experience then what exists to become conscious of?



        rwr







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

        Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
      • Dick.
        NO. How and why is it obvious? Also I have had driving experience which was not in my car. It was a friends car or a hired car of the firms car. Tell me sir,
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 24, 2013
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          NO. How and why is it obvious? Also I have had driving experience which
          was not in my car. It was a friends car or a hired car of the firms car.
          Tell me sir, DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN? And you still did not tell me how you
          know to know of this jesus bloke. Did you get it from a book?
          As for Salam then he was a man and a mystic. You cannot sepperate the
          two. Have you done as much as he did? No. Anyway, if you have a brain
          then what owns it? What is the YOU which has a brain? It is all down to
          godo, it is all down to the brain. You belief this you belief that. Oh
          give me a rest from it all. What have you had to eat today? Did you like
          it? Surely must must know something. If not then what is the good of
          having a brain or being a brain? Oh my gawd there are some smart arses
          here. Shall we talk about the weather?

          rwr

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
          >
          > "So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you
          > would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you
          > just believe it."
          >
          > Isn't it sort of obvious. If I say I have a conscious experience,
          where
          > else would this occur other than in the brain?? Are you suggesting
          that the
          > conscious experience can occur elsewhere??
          >
          > If I say I have a driving experience then can it be said that this
          > experience occurs other than in my car. Do I need to prove this??
          >
          > eduard
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Dick.
          > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:58 AM
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [existlist] Consciousness requires a brain?
          >
          >
          > Consciousness requires a brain?
          >
          >
          >
          > [ "Some talk of Cosmic Consciousness, so what is that like? You ask
          them
          > this and not a bloody one of them answers you. So, are they talking
          > about something which they know by experience? If they know it then
          they
          > could talk about it and describe what it is like. But they don't."
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I agree entirely. These words [cosmic consciousness] that are dreamt
          up
          > and passed off as being some kind of reality. And the speaker requires
          > that everyone should pause for the moment and accept it.
          Consciousness
          > is simply a function. We are conscious when we are aware of stuff,
          like
          > the cold out there. The brain doesn't shut down when you are not being
          > aware of something. It kinda runs on idle, since being aware is
          actually
          > being aware of sensor differences. Humans quickly become unaware when
          > the scene does not change. Like I cannot feel my watch at this moment
          > even though it is a weight on my wrist. Which is also the reason why I
          > have lost the recognition [interesting word] of certain things in my
          > room, because I see them all the time. Consciousness requires a brain.
          > The Cosmos does not have a brain and thus cannot be said to be
          > conscious. eduard ]
          >
          >
          >
          > So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you
          > would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you
          > just believe it. If so then you are a believer. And you imply that
          > believers are nuts :- ) When did you study your brain by the way? And
          > what did you use to study it with? Anyway, how does the brain create
          > consciousness? And what is the very first thing that it is conscious
          of?
          > And where and when does that first consciousness come on the scene and
          > what is it like?
          >
          >
          >
          > Now, what if consciousness just passed through the brain and that the
          > brain being that of a transmitter and a receiver? Does a radio set
          > create the program that passes through it? Do you have proof that that
          > is not the case? Are you absolutely certain? Believers often seem to
          be
          > certain of things do they not. And if so then why do they need to
          > believe it? Also, can you answer my question â€" Given that
          something
          > HAS conscious experience then what exists to become conscious of?
          >
          >
          >
          > rwr
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          nothing!
          >
          > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • eduardathome
          It s still a car; whether it be my car, your car, your friend s car or the firm s car. The point being that the driving experience does not occur elsewhere
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 24, 2013
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            It's still a car; whether it be my car, your car, your friend's car or the
            firm's car. The point being that the driving experience does not occur
            elsewhere in something other than what might identify as a car. Please
            don't object that it might be a truck or a scooter ... you are well aware of
            my meaning. That consciousness occurs in the brain is obvious because it
            has not been shown that one can be conscious through some object or whatever
            elsewhere. If you can identify by what other object or means you can be
            conscious of something, other than by your brain, please do so.

            What did Salam do?? The question here is the value of mysticism. What did
            Salam do in the realm of mysticism?? Sure he did a lot in the realm of
            physics. Where you are going with this is like assessing the worth of Marie
            Currie's cooking because she also did a lot of important scientific work.
            You can't separate the woman from the pot.

            Yes, I "know" Jesus from a book. Actually, more than one. And of course he
            is commonly mentioned in Western culture. So that is the answer. How about
            you answering my question as to what was of value from Salam being a mystic.

            eduard

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Dick.
            Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:37 PM
            To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [existlist] Re: Consciousness requires a brain?

            NO. How and why is it obvious? Also I have had driving experience which
            was not in my car. It was a friends car or a hired car of the firms car.
            Tell me sir, DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN? And you still did not tell me how you
            know to know of this jesus bloke. Did you get it from a book?
            As for Salam then he was a man and a mystic. You cannot sepperate the
            two. Have you done as much as he did? No. Anyway, if you have a brain
            then what owns it? What is the YOU which has a brain? It is all down to
            godo, it is all down to the brain. You belief this you belief that. Oh
            give me a rest from it all. What have you had to eat today? Did you like
            it? Surely must must know something. If not then what is the good of
            having a brain or being a brain? Oh my gawd there are some smart arses
            here. Shall we talk about the weather?

            rwr

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
            >
            > "So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience you
            > would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do you
            > just believe it."
            >
            > Isn't it sort of obvious. If I say I have a conscious experience,
            where
            > else would this occur other than in the brain?? Are you suggesting
            that the
            > conscious experience can occur elsewhere??
            >
            > If I say I have a driving experience then can it be said that this
            > experience occurs other than in my car. Do I need to prove this??
            >
            > eduard
          • Dick.
            It did the same for him as it does for anybody else. Try Ralph Vaughan Williams as another example. It enhances ones awareness and the senses and also reveals
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 24, 2013
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              It did the same for him as it does for anybody else. Try Ralph Vaughan
              Williams as another example. It enhances ones awareness and the senses
              and also reveals senses that you didn't know you had. It also
              enhances the intellect. It also depends on how many doses you have and
              to what inner depth they go. We are made of far more than you seem to
              realise, and all you have to do is use it. It is the steps to the new
              species of Man. Homo Ensophicus. Evolution goes on. Being and Becoming.

              rwr


              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
              >
              > It's still a car; whether it be my car, your car, your friend's car
              or the
              > firm's car. The point being that the driving experience does not
              occur
              > elsewhere in something other than what might identify as a car.
              Please
              > don't object that it might be a truck or a scooter ... you are well
              aware of
              > my meaning. That consciousness occurs in the brain is obvious because
              it
              > has not been shown that one can be conscious through some object or
              whatever
              > elsewhere. If you can identify by what other object or means you can
              be
              > conscious of something, other than by your brain, please do so.
              >
              > What did Salam do?? The question here is the value of mysticism.
              What did
              > Salam do in the realm of mysticism?? Sure he did a lot in the realm
              of
              > physics. Where you are going with this is like assessing the worth of
              Marie
              > Currie's cooking because she also did a lot of important scientific
              work.
              > You can't separate the woman from the pot.
              >
              > Yes, I "know" Jesus from a book. Actually, more than one. And of
              course he
              > is commonly mentioned in Western culture. So that is the answer. How
              about
              > you answering my question as to what was of value from Salam being a
              mystic.
              >
              > eduard
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Dick.
              > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:37 PM
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: Consciousness requires a brain?
              >
              > NO. How and why is it obvious? Also I have had driving experience
              which
              > was not in my car. It was a friends car or a hired car of the firms
              car.
              > Tell me sir, DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN? And you still did not tell me how
              you
              > know to know of this jesus bloke. Did you get it from a book?
              > As for Salam then he was a man and a mystic. You cannot sepperate the
              > two. Have you done as much as he did? No. Anyway, if you have a
              brain
              > then what owns it? What is the YOU which has a brain? It is all down
              to
              > godo, it is all down to the brain. You belief this you belief that. Oh
              > give me a rest from it all. What have you had to eat today? Did you
              like
              > it? Surely must must know something. If not then what is the good of
              > having a brain or being a brain? Oh my gawd there are some smart
              arses
              > here. Shall we talk about the weather?
              >
              > rwr
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
              > >
              > > "So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience
              you
              > > would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do
              you
              > > just believe it."
              > >
              > > Isn't it sort of obvious. If I say I have a conscious experience,
              > where
              > > else would this occur other than in the brain?? Are you suggesting
              > that the
              > > conscious experience can occur elsewhere??
              > >
              > > If I say I have a driving experience then can it be said that this
              > > experience occurs other than in my car. Do I need to prove this??
              > >
              > > eduard
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eduardathome
              I can appreciate that if one has a particular belief system or path of inquiry, it can be rewarding for the person who does it. If I were to say that I try to
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 25, 2013
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                I can appreciate that if one has a particular belief system or path of
                inquiry, it can be rewarding for the person who does it. If I were to say
                that I try to commune with the pink elephants on the dark side of Pluto, it
                probably would be personally rewarding in some fashion ... otherwise I would
                not do it. But the question is "what is the value", and in this sense the
                value to others. That is why I pointed out that some mystics [so-called]
                have shown themselves more inclined to collecting Rolls-Royces. In the end,
                they are not providing any value to others, but actually have an negative
                value. Granted that only applies to a few which may not be general.
                Albeit, their example does cause a certain hostility against mysticism.

                Jesus could be considered a mystic, if one looks at his role as that of a
                teacher/rabbi instead of somehow a combination of Father Son and Holy Ghost.
                Jesus can be considered a mystic for reason of his attempts of communion
                with god and the transcendental. At least as supposed according to the
                gospels. One could well ask the question as to whether the product provided
                by Jesus, in his role of mystic, was of value to the world. The main
                product from Jesus was his statement that one should love others as
                yourself. I don't take this as a product of mysticism, since it could be
                said by anyone without being a mystic. The other product of Jesus was his
                forecast of the coming of the Kingdom of God. This could be considered as a
                product of mysticism, but it lead nowhere and perhaps is negative
                considering what the church latter made of it. Was it of value?? Perhaps
                for the Christians of the era who were looking for some out of their pain,
                but I would suggest that in the long run it has not been of value to
                society.

                So we get back to Salam. What product did he produce in his role as mystic
                that was of value??

                eduard

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Dick.
                Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:00 AM
                To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [existlist] Re: Consciousness requires a brain?


                It did the same for him as it does for anybody else. Try Ralph Vaughan
                Williams as another example. It enhances ones awareness and the senses
                and also reveals senses that you didn't know you had. It also
                enhances the intellect. It also depends on how many doses you have and
                to what inner depth they go. We are made of far more than you seem to
                realise, and all you have to do is use it. It is the steps to the new
                species of Man. Homo Ensophicus. Evolution goes on. Being and Becoming.

                rwr


                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                >
                > It's still a car; whether it be my car, your car, your friend's car
                or the
                > firm's car. The point being that the driving experience does not
                occur
                > elsewhere in something other than what might identify as a car.
                Please
                > don't object that it might be a truck or a scooter ... you are well
                aware of
                > my meaning. That consciousness occurs in the brain is obvious because
                it
                > has not been shown that one can be conscious through some object or
                whatever
                > elsewhere. If you can identify by what other object or means you can
                be
                > conscious of something, other than by your brain, please do so.
                >
                > What did Salam do?? The question here is the value of mysticism.
                What did
                > Salam do in the realm of mysticism?? Sure he did a lot in the realm
                of
                > physics. Where you are going with this is like assessing the worth of
                Marie
                > Currie's cooking because she also did a lot of important scientific
                work.
                > You can't separate the woman from the pot.
                >
                > Yes, I "know" Jesus from a book. Actually, more than one. And of
                course he
                > is commonly mentioned in Western culture. So that is the answer. How
                about
                > you answering my question as to what was of value from Salam being a
                mystic.
                >
                > eduard
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Dick.
                > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:37 PM
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [existlist] Re: Consciousness requires a brain?
                >
                > NO. How and why is it obvious? Also I have had driving experience
                which
                > was not in my car. It was a friends car or a hired car of the firms
                car.
                > Tell me sir, DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN? And you still did not tell me how
                you
                > know to know of this jesus bloke. Did you get it from a book?
                > As for Salam then he was a man and a mystic. You cannot sepperate the
                > two. Have you done as much as he did? No. Anyway, if you have a
                brain
                > then what owns it? What is the YOU which has a brain? It is all down
                to
                > godo, it is all down to the brain. You belief this you belief that. Oh
                > give me a rest from it all. What have you had to eat today? Did you
                like
                > it? Surely must must know something. If not then what is the good of
                > having a brain or being a brain? Oh my gawd there are some smart
                arses
                > here. Shall we talk about the weather?
                >
                > rwr
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
                > >
                > > "So, if I were to ask you what is it that has conscious experience
                you
                > > would say the brain. You talk of proof. Has that been proved or do
                you
                > > just believe it."
                > >
                > > Isn't it sort of obvious. If I say I have a conscious experience,
                > where
                > > else would this occur other than in the brain?? Are you suggesting
                > that the
                > > conscious experience can occur elsewhere??
                > >
                > > If I say I have a driving experience then can it be said that this
                > > experience occurs other than in my car. Do I need to prove this??
                > >
                > > eduard
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

                Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
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