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Re: [existlist] Re: The Safeguard of Ignorance

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  • eduardathome
    You still have not given an example of some product resulting from mysticism which is of value. I posed Jesus to give an example of one who might be considered
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 24, 2013
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      You still have not given an example of some product resulting from mysticism
      which is of value.

      I posed Jesus to give an example of one who might be considered a mystic. I
      should think that the term "mystic" might apply when Jesus was a Rabbi who
      was said to have communion with God. Yet what he came up with was mundane
      and obvious. Albeit I would accept some people have to be told the mundane
      in order to realise it. But the mundane does not require a mystic.

      So over to you. If Abdus Salam is your example of a mystic, what did he
      produce as a mystic that was of value??

      eduard

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dick.
      Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:35 AM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] Re: The Safeguard of Ignorance


      So you get your understanding of what mystical altered states of
      conscious is from wackypeadia :- ))) That says it all. Yes I did mean
      that Abdus Salam and he was a mystic. It was he who first asked me to
      write a book about it. And hearing it was useful to him. What the frig
      has this jesus geezer got to do with mystical experience???? You
      don't obviously know a thing about it. So best keep your hush on
      that topic. It is nothing to do with religions or beliefs. Did you
      know that religions pinch stuff and then mess with it? No, I guess you
      did not. So, what have you left the world which is useful then? And are
      you the judge of what is useful to the world?

      rwr


      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
      >
      > I did not say that the evolution of conscious awareness has no value.
      I
      > said that mysticism is of no value. Although I would more likely say
      that
      > it is the brain which has been subject to evolution, our ability to be
      aware
      > of stuff could be also be said to be evolved.
      >
      > I would use the definition of mysticism as provided by Wikipedia ...
      >
      > "Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or
      conscious
      > awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God
      through
      > direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. Mysticism usually
      centers
      > on practices intended to nurture those experiences. Mysticism may be
      > dualistic, maintaining a distinction between the self and the divine,
      or may
      > be non-dualistic."
      >
      > I can accept that certain people pursuing such as spiritual truth may
      come
      > up with expressions that may be of help to others in earlier periods
      of
      > human history, in that it may provide some mental comfort, but I don't
      see
      > this as being of value today. Especially when there is no god and
      things
      > divine have not been shown to be real.
      >
      > The value of a mystic is the value of what he/she produces for others.
      So
      > one could then ask what specifically related to this pursuit has been
      of
      > worth, as compared to the statements which could come from a
      non-mystic.
      >
      > Was Jesus a mystic?? It's hard to tell, because we don't have an
      insight
      > into his own mind. But he did express the idea of ... love one
      another as
      > yourself. Is this a statement of a mystic?? Seems to me that you
      don't
      > need to be a mystic to come up with that ethic. It is in the realm of
      the
      > obvious.
      >
      > In any case, what is your point regarding Abdus Salam?? I have not
      known of
      > him other than what I have now read about him on the internet. He is
      a
      > physicist, or perhaps you are referring to some other Abdus Salam.
      >
      > What is most interesting in your post is that you haven't provided an
      > example of something provided by a mystic that one might take as being
      of
      > value.
      >
      > eduard
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Dick.
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:07 PM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [existlist] Re: The Safeguard of Ignorance
      >
      >
      > So the evolution of conscious awareness has no value? Well you must
      be
      > the expert on that as well. Perhaps you would care to tell us what
      such
      > experiences reveal and what effects they have. Perhaps you could also
      > name a few people who were mystics. How many mystical experiences
      have
      > you had and how long have you been having them? Hey, tell me, was
      Abdus
      > Salam a mystic or not? Did he fleece people for money by spewing a
      load
      > of junk and getting rich on the proceeds? Do you know what you are
      > talking about? What effect did they have on you? Tell us about it.
      >
      > As for mining for minerals on asteroids and other bodies in space in
      > time to come then it would only cost a lot of money to societies that
      > used money as a means of exchange for labour. But for those who did
      not
      > then it would not cost anything at all; other than work and effort.
      >
      > So you can appreciate that Wilde made that comment just for effect?
      And
      > that makes it right does it? I can appreciate that he did not. I can
      > appreciate that he meant it. When you talk and write then what effect
      > are you aiming to achieve? And why?
      >
      > rwr
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome wrote:
      > >
      > > Probably because myticism has never revealed it has anything of
      value,
      > and
      > > this stuff such as "altered states of consciousness" has not been
      > shown to
      > > be real. In the information age, people just get tired of hearing
      the
      > same
      > > old, same old. Like Oral Roberts saying that god would "call him
      > home"
      > > unless he got another $8 million in donations. Or that Guru in
      Oregon
      > with
      > > his 93 Rolls-Royces. It's no wonder there is some hostility.
      > >
      > > eduard
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Dick.
      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:07 PM
      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [existlist] The Safeguard of Ignorance
      > >
      > >
      > > The Safeguard of Ignorance
      > >
      > > [ Why is there still so much hostility to even the mention of
      > mysticism
      > > and altered states of conscious, and the effects of becoming aware
      of
      > > more as a result of it? ]
      > >
      > > The safeguard of ignorance and its vested interests on the one hand
      > and
      > > fear of the unknown on the other. They make perfect bedfellows;
      like
      > a
      > > shell around a nut. The preceding email pays testimony to this.
      > >
      > > rwr
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
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