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Re: [existlist] Re: More shooter info

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  • eduardathome
    Bill, I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from France]. I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I thought
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 25, 2012
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      Bill,

      I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from France]. I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was the son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later did Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their lives in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.

      The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do after I leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.

      eduardathome

      (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).





      -----Original Message-----
      From: William
      Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info



      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
      >
      > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will take some
      > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a Separatist
      > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new attempt at
      > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist government
      > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on election night
      > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to give her
      > victory speech.
      >
      > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and which are
      > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
      > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and settled
      > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female "cousin", a son
      > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was actually
      > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to have
      > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act differently
      > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be. So to
      > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3 girls. The
      > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the Rideau
      > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in a near
      > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31 million,
      > that's a lot.
      >
      > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have another
      > life to go to.
      >
      > eduardathome
      > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants make us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what the bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the less wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
      The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native american and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away they were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad people were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards but must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick and choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting because they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As with any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I did not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now I
      know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival just as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a subordinate position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much junk and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other things are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all my fingers! Bill
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: William
      > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the law was
      > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of Wild West
      > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the lawless. A
      > > lot
      > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
      > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of bloodbath.
      > > For
      > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP] killed
      > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In the end,
      > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left a lot
      > > of
      > > bad feeling.
      > >
      > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of rebellions
      > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and Lower
      > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the capital
      > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down. The
      > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a greater
      > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
      > >
      > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West and
      > > Civil
      > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists into
      > > modern times.
      > >
      > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather than the
      > > individual. That makes a big difference.
      > >
      > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out now and
      > > then
      > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
      > >
      > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are to
      > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
      > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French minorities
      > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps Alberta]. But
      > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First Nations
      > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the north.
      > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture. Quebec
      > > which
      > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
      > > Francophones
      > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
      > > culture.
      > >
      > > eduardathome
      > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not taught
      > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to Canada to
      > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would know how
      > > to fish.
      > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a canadian
      > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for our
      > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid east
      > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be left to
      > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we get out
      > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected them with
      > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be modified.
      > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending for the
      > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like gun
      > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments. We do
      > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern countries
      > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and it is
      > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets with
      > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as the
      > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to shoot
      > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic shootings
      > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
      > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is down and
      > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
      > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true. Lindsey
      > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns an AR15.
      > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern bravado
      > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more socially
      > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had to have
      > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we must
      > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think it is
      > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire at the
      > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m worn
      > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I dug out
      > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with me. I am
      > becomming a house husband and
      > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to see how
      > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the patients
      > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and hands
      > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
      > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I hope you
      > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: William
      > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold onto the
      > > > "good
      > > > times".
      > > >
      > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is great, is
      > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your piece of
      > > > the
      > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it possible to
      > > > keep
      > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to guns.
      > > > Obama
      > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
      > > >
      > > > eduardathome
      > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just want to
      > > > get
      > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds future
      > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at all and
      > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does not seem
      > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple bicultural
      > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and fear and
      > > > gun ownership.
      > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger than
      > > the
      > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there will be
      > > a
      > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
      > > politics.
      > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I have
      > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the predominant
      > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and now they
      > > are
      > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass murder.
      > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV is
      > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions. I tried
      > > to
      > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie about mass
      > > murder.
      > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do not
      > > know
      > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know many are
      > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: William
      > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
      > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Bill,
      > > > >
      > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and aren't
      > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting earlier of
      > > > > your
      > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now open to
      > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use for toys
      > > > > or
      > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for these
      > > > > type
      > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between civilian and
      > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no reasonable
      > > > > claim
      > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But there
      > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in owning a
      > > > > gun
      > > > > of
      > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
      > > > > emergencies
      > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow of no
      > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and private) of,
      > > > > say,
      > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon. It's
      > > > > not,
      > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver Wendell
      > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
      > > > >
      > > > > Irvin
      > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile happening
      > > > > felt
      > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
      > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am finished with
      > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a better mode
      > > > of
      > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
      > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and driven to
      > > > a
      > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming and the
      > > > new
      > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can shock the
      > > > senses
      > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round into the
      > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew the
      > > > round
      > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of power,almost
      > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
      > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be able to
      > > > lessen
      > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from keeping
      > > > weapons
      > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily identified and
      > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should not be
      > > > taught to shoot.
      > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in four man
      > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but our four
      > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of boose
      > > > and
      > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up. Many
      > > > years
      > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD and a
      > > > life
      > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our cars. It was
      > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down range. We
      > > > were
      > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
      > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you say there
      > > > are
      > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns away and
      > > > remember the good times. Bill
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
      > >
      > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
      >
      > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
      >




      ------------------------------------

      Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William
      ... I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to do some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of business has
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 25, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
        >
        > Bill,
        >
        > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from France]. I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was the son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later did Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their lives in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
        >
        > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do after I leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
        >
        > eduardathome
        > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much for me to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry but the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted and depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did a good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the recession. For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very hard to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated by stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is great to feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time since my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from stress.
        I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to do some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of business has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good business man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw people and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in running your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a hundred employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my employees. In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard play hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It burned me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full retirement age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I am looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet park like neighborhood with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if they dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters. And we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls eating sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the family they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I could hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven foot tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading the house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here if I can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it is what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement they planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to get what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and deserve a happy lifestyle in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but attitude about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing. Bill
        > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: William
        > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
        > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
        > >
        > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will take some
        > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a Separatist
        > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new attempt at
        > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist government
        > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on election night
        > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to give her
        > > victory speech.
        > >
        > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and which are
        > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
        > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and settled
        > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female "cousin", a son
        > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was actually
        > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to have
        > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act differently
        > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be. So to
        > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3 girls. The
        > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the Rideau
        > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in a near
        > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31 million,
        > > that's a lot.
        > >
        > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have another
        > > life to go to.
        > >
        > > eduardathome
        > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants make us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what the bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the less wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
        > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native american and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away they were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad people were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards but must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick and choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting because they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As with any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I did not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now I
        > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival just as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a subordinate position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much junk and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other things are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all my fingers! Bill
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: William
        > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
        > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the law was
        > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of Wild West
        > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the lawless. A
        > > > lot
        > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
        > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of bloodbath.
        > > > For
        > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP] killed
        > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In the end,
        > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left a lot
        > > > of
        > > > bad feeling.
        > > >
        > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of rebellions
        > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and Lower
        > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the capital
        > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down. The
        > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a greater
        > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
        > > >
        > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West and
        > > > Civil
        > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists into
        > > > modern times.
        > > >
        > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather than the
        > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
        > > >
        > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out now and
        > > > then
        > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
        > > >
        > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are to
        > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
        > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French minorities
        > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps Alberta]. But
        > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First Nations
        > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the north.
        > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture. Quebec
        > > > which
        > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
        > > > Francophones
        > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
        > > > culture.
        > > >
        > > > eduardathome
        > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not taught
        > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to Canada to
        > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would know how
        > > > to fish.
        > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a canadian
        > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for our
        > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid east
        > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be left to
        > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we get out
        > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected them with
        > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be modified.
        > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending for the
        > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like gun
        > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments. We do
        > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern countries
        > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and it is
        > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets with
        > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as the
        > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to shoot
        > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic shootings
        > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
        > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is down and
        > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
        > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true. Lindsey
        > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns an AR15.
        > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern bravado
        > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more socially
        > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had to have
        > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we must
        > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think it is
        > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire at the
        > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m worn
        > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I dug out
        > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with me. I am
        > > becomming a house husband and
        > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to see how
        > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the patients
        > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and hands
        > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
        > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I hope you
        > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: William
        > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
        > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold onto the
        > > > > "good
        > > > > times".
        > > > >
        > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is great, is
        > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your piece of
        > > > > the
        > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it possible to
        > > > > keep
        > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to guns.
        > > > > Obama
        > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
        > > > >
        > > > > eduardathome
        > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just want to
        > > > > get
        > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds future
        > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at all and
        > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does not seem
        > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple bicultural
        > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and fear and
        > > > > gun ownership.
        > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger than
        > > > the
        > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there will be
        > > > a
        > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
        > > > politics.
        > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I have
        > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the predominant
        > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and now they
        > > > are
        > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass murder.
        > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV is
        > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions. I tried
        > > > to
        > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie about mass
        > > > murder.
        > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do not
        > > > know
        > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know many are
        > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
        > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > From: William
        > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
        > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Bill,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and aren't
        > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting earlier of
        > > > > > your
        > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now open to
        > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use for toys
        > > > > > or
        > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for these
        > > > > > type
        > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between civilian and
        > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no reasonable
        > > > > > claim
        > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But there
        > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in owning a
        > > > > > gun
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
        > > > > > emergencies
        > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow of no
        > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and private) of,
        > > > > > say,
        > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon. It's
        > > > > > not,
        > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver Wendell
        > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Irvin
        > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile happening
        > > > > > felt
        > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
        > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am finished with
        > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a better mode
        > > > > of
        > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
        > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and driven to
        > > > > a
        > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming and the
        > > > > new
        > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can shock the
        > > > > senses
        > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round into the
        > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew the
        > > > > round
        > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of power,almost
        > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
        > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be able to
        > > > > lessen
        > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from keeping
        > > > > weapons
        > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily identified and
        > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should not be
        > > > > taught to shoot.
        > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in four man
        > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but our four
        > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of boose
        > > > > and
        > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up. Many
        > > > > years
        > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD and a
        > > > > life
        > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our cars. It was
        > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down range. We
        > > > > were
        > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
        > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you say there
        > > > > are
        > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns away and
        > > > > remember the good times. Bill
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
        > > >
        > > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
        > >
        > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining nothing!
        >
        > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • eduardathome
        Yes, it s a big problem .... work. Overall it s hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is doing this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 25, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, it's a big problem .... work.

          Overall it's hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is doing
          this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic City, 3 more in Washington
          doing standards and perhaps 4 more doing actual installation for FAA
          approaches. I play catch-up as much as I can, but it has taken its toll.
          I'm like an old fire horse who in a way enjoys the ring of the alarm and run
          to the fire. But then I know that it will come to a crashing end one day,
          if I continue the way I am going.

          Perhaps a reason for coming back to Existlist.

          Pleased it is working out for you.

          eduardathome

          -----Original Message-----
          From: William
          Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 12:24 PM
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info



          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bill,
          >
          > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from France].
          > I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I
          > thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was the
          > son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was
          > blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later did
          > Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their lives
          > in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
          >
          > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end
          > early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do after I
          > leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
          >
          > eduardathome
          > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much for me
          > to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry but
          > the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted and
          > depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did a
          > good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the recession.
          > For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very hard
          > to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated by
          > stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the
          > weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the
          > stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is great to
          > feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time since
          > my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from
          > stress.
          I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to do
          some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of business
          has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good business
          man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw people
          and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in running
          your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and
          employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a hundred
          employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my employees.
          In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard play
          hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It burned
          me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full retirement
          age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I am
          looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet park
          like neighborhood
          with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if they
          dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters. And
          we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls eating
          sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the family
          they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I could
          hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The
          sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven foot
          tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading the
          house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here if I
          can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it is
          what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement they
          planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to get
          what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and
          deserve a happy lifestyle
          in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but attitude
          about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing. Bill
          > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: William
          > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
          > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
          > >
          > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will take
          > > some
          > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a
          > > Separatist
          > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new attempt at
          > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist
          > > government
          > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on election
          > > night
          > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to give
          > > her
          > > victory speech.
          > >
          > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and which
          > > are
          > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
          > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and
          > > settled
          > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female "cousin", a
          > > son
          > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was
          > > actually
          > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to have
          > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act
          > > differently
          > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be. So
          > > to
          > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3 girls.
          > > The
          > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the
          > > Rideau
          > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in a
          > > near
          > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31
          > > million,
          > > that's a lot.
          > >
          > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have
          > > another
          > > life to go to.
          > >
          > > eduardathome
          > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep
          > > bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants make
          > > us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what the
          > > bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the less
          > > wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If
          > > that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
          > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native american
          > and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most
          > unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away they
          > were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad people
          > were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards but
          > must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick and
          > choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to
          > retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting because
          > they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing
          > earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if
          > available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As with
          > any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were
          > beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I did
          > not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now
          I
          > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival just
          > as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a subordinate
          > position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is
          > challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much junk
          > and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other things
          > are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all my
          > fingers! Bill
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: William
          > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
          > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the law
          > > > was
          > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of Wild
          > > > West
          > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the lawless.
          > > > A
          > > > lot
          > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
          > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of
          > > > bloodbath.
          > > > For
          > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP]
          > > > killed
          > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In the
          > > > end,
          > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left a
          > > > lot
          > > > of
          > > > bad feeling.
          > > >
          > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of
          > > > rebellions
          > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and Lower
          > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the
          > > > capital
          > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down. The
          > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a greater
          > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
          > > >
          > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West and
          > > > Civil
          > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists
          > > > into
          > > > modern times.
          > > >
          > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather than
          > > > the
          > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
          > > >
          > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out now
          > > > and
          > > > then
          > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
          > > >
          > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are to
          > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
          > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French
          > > > minorities
          > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps Alberta].
          > > > But
          > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First
          > > > Nations
          > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the
          > > > north.
          > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture. Quebec
          > > > which
          > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
          > > > Francophones
          > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
          > > > culture.
          > > >
          > > > eduardathome
          > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not
          > > > taught
          > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to Canada to
          > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would know
          > > > how
          > > > to fish.
          > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a canadian
          > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for our
          > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid east
          > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be left
          > > to
          > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we get
          > > out
          > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected them
          > > with
          > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be
          > > modified.
          > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending for
          > > the
          > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like gun
          > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments. We
          > > do
          > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern
          > > countries
          > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and it is
          > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets with
          > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as the
          > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to shoot
          > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic
          > > shootings
          > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
          > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is down
          > > and
          > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
          > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true.
          > > Lindsey
          > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns an
          > > AR15.
          > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern bravado
          > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more
          > > socially
          > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had to
          > > have
          > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we must
          > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think it is
          > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire at
          > > the
          > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m
          > > worn
          > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I dug
          > > out
          > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with me.
          > > I am
          > > becomming a house husband and
          > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to see
          > > how
          > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the
          > > patients
          > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and
          > > hands
          > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
          > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I hope
          > > you
          > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: William
          > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
          > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold onto
          > > > > the
          > > > > "good
          > > > > times".
          > > > >
          > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is
          > > > > great, is
          > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your piece
          > > > > of
          > > > > the
          > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it possible to
          > > > > keep
          > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to guns.
          > > > > Obama
          > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
          > > > >
          > > > > eduardathome
          > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just want
          > > > > to
          > > > > get
          > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds
          > > > > future
          > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at all
          > > > > and
          > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does not
          > > > > seem
          > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple bicultural
          > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and fear
          > > > > and
          > > > > gun ownership.
          > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger
          > > > than
          > > > the
          > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there will
          > > > be
          > > > a
          > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
          > > > politics.
          > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I have
          > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the
          > > > predominant
          > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and now
          > > > they
          > > > are
          > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass
          > > > murder.
          > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV is
          > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions. I
          > > > tried
          > > > to
          > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie about
          > > > mass
          > > > murder.
          > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do not
          > > > know
          > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know many
          > > > are
          > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
          > > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > > From: William
          > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
          > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Bill,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and aren't
          > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting earlier of
          > > > > > your
          > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now open to
          > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use for
          > > > > > toys
          > > > > > or
          > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for
          > > > > > these
          > > > > > type
          > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between civilian
          > > > > > and
          > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no
          > > > > > reasonable
          > > > > > claim
          > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But
          > > > > > there
          > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in owning
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > gun
          > > > > > of
          > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
          > > > > > emergencies
          > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow of
          > > > > > no
          > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and private)
          > > > > > of,
          > > > > > say,
          > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon. It's
          > > > > > not,
          > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver
          > > > > > Wendell
          > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Irvin
          > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile
          > > > > > happening
          > > > > > felt
          > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
          > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am finished
          > > > > with
          > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a better
          > > > > mode
          > > > > of
          > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
          > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and
          > > > > driven to
          > > > > a
          > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming and
          > > > > the
          > > > > new
          > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can shock
          > > > > the
          > > > > senses
          > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round into
          > > > > the
          > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew the
          > > > > round
          > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of power,almost
          > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
          > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be able to
          > > > > lessen
          > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from keeping
          > > > > weapons
          > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily identified
          > > > > and
          > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should not
          > > > > be
          > > > > taught to shoot.
          > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in four
          > > > > man
          > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but our
          > > > > four
          > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of
          > > > > boose
          > > > > and
          > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up.
          > > > > Many
          > > > > years
          > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD and a
          > > > > life
          > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our cars. It
          > > > > was
          > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down range.
          > > > > We
          > > > > were
          > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
          > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you say
          > > > > there
          > > > > are
          > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns away
          > > > > and
          > > > > remember the good times. Bill
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
          > > > nothing!
          > > >
          > > > Home Page: http://www.tameri.com/csw/existYahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
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          > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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          > >
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          >
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        • William
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 25, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, it's a big problem .... work.
            >
            > Overall it's hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is doing
            > this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic City, 3 more in Washington
            > doing standards and perhaps 4 more doing actual installation for FAA
            > approaches. I play catch-up as much as I can, but it has taken its toll.
            > I'm like an old fire horse who in a way enjoys the ring of the alarm and run
            > to the fire. But then I know that it will come to a crashing end one day,
            > if I continue the way I am going.
            >
            > Perhaps a reason for coming back to Existlist.
            >
            > Pleased it is working out for you.
            >
            > eduardathome
            > Eduard, I have been in the importance trap and it can get you. As my cardiologist said you arn`t much good dead. Then I remember Clint Eastwood "A mans got to know his limitations" Kind of sounds like Dicks know thyself. As an engineer you might look at the machine, its remaining fuel and its maintanance record. What do you ask the apparatus to accomplish?Are you going to ask the machine to just burn up? Bill
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: William
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 12:24 PM
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Bill,
            > >
            > > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from France].
            > > I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I
            > > thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was the
            > > son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was
            > > blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later did
            > > Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their lives
            > > in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
            > >
            > > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end
            > > early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do after I
            > > leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
            > >
            > > eduardathome
            > > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much for me
            > > to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry but
            > > the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted and
            > > depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did a
            > > good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the recession.
            > > For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very hard
            > > to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated by
            > > stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the
            > > weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the
            > > stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is great to
            > > feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time since
            > > my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from
            > > stress.
            > I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to do
            > some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of business
            > has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good business
            > man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw people
            > and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in running
            > your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and
            > employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a hundred
            > employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my employees.
            > In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard play
            > hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It burned
            > me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full retirement
            > age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I am
            > looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet park
            > like neighborhood
            > with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if they
            > dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters. And
            > we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls eating
            > sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the family
            > they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I could
            > hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The
            > sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven foot
            > tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading the
            > house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here if I
            > can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it is
            > what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement they
            > planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to get
            > what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and
            > deserve a happy lifestyle
            > in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but attitude
            > about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing. Bill
            > > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: William
            > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
            > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will take
            > > > some
            > > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a
            > > > Separatist
            > > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new attempt at
            > > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist
            > > > government
            > > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on election
            > > > night
            > > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to give
            > > > her
            > > > victory speech.
            > > >
            > > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and which
            > > > are
            > > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
            > > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and
            > > > settled
            > > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female "cousin", a
            > > > son
            > > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was
            > > > actually
            > > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to have
            > > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act
            > > > differently
            > > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be. So
            > > > to
            > > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3 girls.
            > > > The
            > > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the
            > > > Rideau
            > > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in a
            > > > near
            > > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31
            > > > million,
            > > > that's a lot.
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have
            > > > another
            > > > life to go to.
            > > >
            > > > eduardathome
            > > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep
            > > > bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants make
            > > > us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what the
            > > > bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the less
            > > > wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If
            > > > that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
            > > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native american
            > > and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most
            > > unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away they
            > > were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad people
            > > were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards but
            > > must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick and
            > > choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to
            > > retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting because
            > > they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing
            > > earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if
            > > available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As with
            > > any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were
            > > beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I did
            > > not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now
            > I
            > > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival just
            > > as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a subordinate
            > > position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is
            > > challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much junk
            > > and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other things
            > > are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all my
            > > fingers! Bill
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: William
            > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
            > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the law
            > > > > was
            > > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of Wild
            > > > > West
            > > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the lawless.
            > > > > A
            > > > > lot
            > > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
            > > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of
            > > > > bloodbath.
            > > > > For
            > > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP]
            > > > > killed
            > > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In the
            > > > > end,
            > > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left a
            > > > > lot
            > > > > of
            > > > > bad feeling.
            > > > >
            > > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of
            > > > > rebellions
            > > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and Lower
            > > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the
            > > > > capital
            > > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down. The
            > > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a greater
            > > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
            > > > >
            > > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West and
            > > > > Civil
            > > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists
            > > > > into
            > > > > modern times.
            > > > >
            > > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather than
            > > > > the
            > > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
            > > > >
            > > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out now
            > > > > and
            > > > > then
            > > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
            > > > >
            > > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are to
            > > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
            > > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French
            > > > > minorities
            > > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps Alberta].
            > > > > But
            > > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First
            > > > > Nations
            > > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the
            > > > > north.
            > > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture. Quebec
            > > > > which
            > > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
            > > > > Francophones
            > > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
            > > > > culture.
            > > > >
            > > > > eduardathome
            > > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not
            > > > > taught
            > > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to Canada to
            > > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would know
            > > > > how
            > > > > to fish.
            > > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a canadian
            > > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for our
            > > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid east
            > > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be left
            > > > to
            > > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we get
            > > > out
            > > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected them
            > > > with
            > > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be
            > > > modified.
            > > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending for
            > > > the
            > > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like gun
            > > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments. We
            > > > do
            > > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern
            > > > countries
            > > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and it is
            > > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets with
            > > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as the
            > > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to shoot
            > > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic
            > > > shootings
            > > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
            > > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is down
            > > > and
            > > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
            > > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true.
            > > > Lindsey
            > > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns an
            > > > AR15.
            > > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern bravado
            > > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more
            > > > socially
            > > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had to
            > > > have
            > > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we must
            > > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think it is
            > > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire at
            > > > the
            > > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m
            > > > worn
            > > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I dug
            > > > out
            > > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with me.
            > > > I am
            > > > becomming a house husband and
            > > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to see
            > > > how
            > > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the
            > > > patients
            > > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and
            > > > hands
            > > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
            > > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I hope
            > > > you
            > > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > > From: William
            > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
            > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold onto
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > "good
            > > > > > times".
            > > > > >
            > > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is
            > > > > > great, is
            > > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your piece
            > > > > > of
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it possible to
            > > > > > keep
            > > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to guns.
            > > > > > Obama
            > > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > eduardathome
            > > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just want
            > > > > > to
            > > > > > get
            > > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds
            > > > > > future
            > > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at all
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does not
            > > > > > seem
            > > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple bicultural
            > > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and fear
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > gun ownership.
            > > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger
            > > > > than
            > > > > the
            > > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there will
            > > > > be
            > > > > a
            > > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
            > > > > politics.
            > > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I have
            > > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the
            > > > > predominant
            > > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and now
            > > > > they
            > > > > are
            > > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass
            > > > > murder.
            > > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV is
            > > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions. I
            > > > > tried
            > > > > to
            > > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie about
            > > > > mass
            > > > > murder.
            > > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do not
            > > > > know
            > > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know many
            > > > > are
            > > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
            > > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > > > From: William
            > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
            > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Bill,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and aren't
            > > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting earlier of
            > > > > > > your
            > > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now open to
            > > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use for
            > > > > > > toys
            > > > > > > or
            > > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for
            > > > > > > these
            > > > > > > type
            > > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between civilian
            > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no
            > > > > > > reasonable
            > > > > > > claim
            > > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But
            > > > > > > there
            > > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in owning
            > > > > > > a
            > > > > > > gun
            > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
            > > > > > > emergencies
            > > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow of
            > > > > > > no
            > > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and private)
            > > > > > > of,
            > > > > > > say,
            > > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon. It's
            > > > > > > not,
            > > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver
            > > > > > > Wendell
            > > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Irvin
            > > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile
            > > > > > > happening
            > > > > > > felt
            > > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
            > > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am finished
            > > > > > with
            > > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a better
            > > > > > mode
            > > > > > of
            > > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
            > > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and
            > > > > > driven to
            > > > > > a
            > > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming and
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > new
            > > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can shock
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > senses
            > > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round into
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew the
            > > > > > round
            > > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of power,almost
            > > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
            > > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be able to
            > > > > > lessen
            > > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from keeping
            > > > > > weapons
            > > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily identified
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should not
            > > > > > be
            > > > > > taught to shoot.
            > > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in four
            > > > > > man
            > > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but our
            > > > > > four
            > > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of
            > > > > > boose
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up.
            > > > > > Many
            > > > > > years
            > > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD and a
            > > > > > life
            > > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our cars. It
            > > > > > was
            > > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down range.
            > > > > > We
            > > > > > were
            > > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
            > > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you say
            > > > > > there
            > > > > > are
            > > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns away
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > remember the good times. Bill
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
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            > > > >
            > > > > Please support the Existential Primer... dedicated to explaining
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          • eduardathome
            Actually ... yes ... let the machine burn up. That is what is all about. I like the phrase ... time is the fire in which we burn . It all comes to an end.
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 27, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Actually ... yes ... let the machine burn up.

              That is what is all about.

              I like the phrase ... "time is the fire in which we burn".

              It all comes to an end. Best to end it in doing what you like.

              eduard

              -----Original Message-----
              From: William
              Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:20 PM
              To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info



              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, it's a big problem .... work.
              >
              > Overall it's hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is
              > doing
              > this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic City, 3 more in Washington
              > doing standards and perhaps 4 more doing actual installation for FAA
              > approaches. I play catch-up as much as I can, but it has taken its toll.
              > I'm like an old fire horse who in a way enjoys the ring of the alarm and
              > run
              > to the fire. But then I know that it will come to a crashing end one day,
              > if I continue the way I am going.
              >
              > Perhaps a reason for coming back to Existlist.
              >
              > Pleased it is working out for you.
              >
              > eduardathome
              > Eduard, I have been in the importance trap and it can get you. As my
              > cardiologist said you arn`t much good dead. Then I remember Clint Eastwood
              > "A mans got to know his limitations" Kind of sounds like Dicks know
              > thyself. As an engineer you might look at the machine, its remaining fuel
              > and its maintanance record. What do you ask the apparatus to
              > accomplish?Are you going to ask the machine to just burn up? Bill
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: William
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 12:24 PM
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Bill,
              > >
              > > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from
              > > France].
              > > I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I
              > > thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was the
              > > son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was
              > > blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later
              > > did
              > > Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their
              > > lives
              > > in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
              > >
              > > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end
              > > early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do after
              > > I
              > > leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
              > >
              > > eduardathome
              > > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much for
              > > me
              > > to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry but
              > > the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted
              > > and
              > > depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did a
              > > good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the recession.
              > > For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very hard
              > > to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated
              > > by
              > > stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the
              > > weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the
              > > stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is great
              > > to
              > > feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time since
              > > my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from
              > > stress.
              > I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to
              > do
              > some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of
              > business
              > has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good business
              > man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw
              > people
              > and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in
              > running
              > your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and
              > employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a hundred
              > employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my employees.
              > In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard
              > play
              > hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It burned
              > me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full retirement
              > age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I am
              > looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet
              > park
              > like neighborhood
              > with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if they
              > dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters. And
              > we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls eating
              > sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the family
              > they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I
              > could
              > hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The
              > sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven
              > foot
              > tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading
              > the
              > house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here if
              > I
              > can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it is
              > what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement
              > they
              > planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to get
              > what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and
              > deserve a happy lifestyle
              > in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but attitude
              > about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing.
              > Bill
              > > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: William
              > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
              > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will take
              > > > some
              > > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a
              > > > Separatist
              > > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new attempt
              > > > at
              > > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist
              > > > government
              > > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on election
              > > > night
              > > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to give
              > > > her
              > > > victory speech.
              > > >
              > > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and
              > > > which
              > > > are
              > > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
              > > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and
              > > > settled
              > > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female "cousin",
              > > > a
              > > > son
              > > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was
              > > > actually
              > > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to
              > > > have
              > > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act
              > > > differently
              > > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be. So
              > > > to
              > > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3 girls.
              > > > The
              > > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the
              > > > Rideau
              > > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in a
              > > > near
              > > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31
              > > > million,
              > > > that's a lot.
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have
              > > > another
              > > > life to go to.
              > > >
              > > > eduardathome
              > > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep
              > > > bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants
              > > > make
              > > > us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what
              > > > the
              > > > bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the
              > > > less
              > > > wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If
              > > > that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
              > > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native
              > > american
              > > and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most
              > > unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away
              > > they
              > > were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad
              > > people
              > > were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards but
              > > must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick
              > > and
              > > choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to
              > > retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting because
              > > they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing
              > > earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if
              > > available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As with
              > > any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were
              > > beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I
              > > did
              > > not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now
              > I
              > > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival just
              > > as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a subordinate
              > > position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is
              > > challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much
              > > junk
              > > and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other
              > > things
              > > are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all
              > > my
              > > fingers! Bill
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: William
              > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
              > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the
              > > > > law
              > > > > was
              > > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of Wild
              > > > > West
              > > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the
              > > > > lawless.
              > > > > A
              > > > > lot
              > > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
              > > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of
              > > > > bloodbath.
              > > > > For
              > > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP]
              > > > > killed
              > > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In
              > > > > the
              > > > > end,
              > > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left a
              > > > > lot
              > > > > of
              > > > > bad feeling.
              > > > >
              > > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of
              > > > > rebellions
              > > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and
              > > > > Lower
              > > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the
              > > > > capital
              > > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down. The
              > > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a
              > > > > greater
              > > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
              > > > >
              > > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West
              > > > > and
              > > > > Civil
              > > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists
              > > > > into
              > > > > modern times.
              > > > >
              > > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather
              > > > > than
              > > > > the
              > > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
              > > > >
              > > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out now
              > > > > and
              > > > > then
              > > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
              > > > >
              > > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are
              > > > > to
              > > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
              > > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French
              > > > > minorities
              > > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps
              > > > > Alberta].
              > > > > But
              > > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First
              > > > > Nations
              > > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the
              > > > > north.
              > > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture.
              > > > > Quebec
              > > > > which
              > > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
              > > > > Francophones
              > > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
              > > > > culture.
              > > > >
              > > > > eduardathome
              > > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not
              > > > > taught
              > > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to Canada
              > > > > to
              > > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would
              > > > > know
              > > > > how
              > > > > to fish.
              > > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a canadian
              > > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for
              > > > our
              > > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid
              > > > east
              > > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be left
              > > > to
              > > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we
              > > > get
              > > > out
              > > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected
              > > > them
              > > > with
              > > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be
              > > > modified.
              > > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending for
              > > > the
              > > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like gun
              > > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments.
              > > > We
              > > > do
              > > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern
              > > > countries
              > > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and it
              > > > is
              > > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets with
              > > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as
              > > > the
              > > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to shoot
              > > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic
              > > > shootings
              > > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
              > > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is
              > > > down
              > > > and
              > > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
              > > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true.
              > > > Lindsey
              > > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns an
              > > > AR15.
              > > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern
              > > > bravado
              > > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more
              > > > socially
              > > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had
              > > > to
              > > > have
              > > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we
              > > > must
              > > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think it
              > > > is
              > > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire
              > > > at
              > > > the
              > > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m
              > > > worn
              > > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I
              > > > dug
              > > > out
              > > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with
              > > > me.
              > > > I am
              > > > becomming a house husband and
              > > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to see
              > > > how
              > > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the
              > > > patients
              > > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and
              > > > hands
              > > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
              > > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I
              > > > hope
              > > > you
              > > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > From: William
              > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
              > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold onto
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > "good
              > > > > > times".
              > > > > >
              > > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is
              > > > > > great, is
              > > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your
              > > > > > piece
              > > > > > of
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it possible
              > > > > > to
              > > > > > keep
              > > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to
              > > > > > guns.
              > > > > > Obama
              > > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > eduardathome
              > > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just
              > > > > > want
              > > > > > to
              > > > > > get
              > > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds
              > > > > > future
              > > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at
              > > > > > all
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does not
              > > > > > seem
              > > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple
              > > > > > bicultural
              > > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and
              > > > > > fear
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > gun ownership.
              > > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger
              > > > > than
              > > > > the
              > > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there
              > > > > will
              > > > > be
              > > > > a
              > > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
              > > > > politics.
              > > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I
              > > > > have
              > > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the
              > > > > predominant
              > > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and now
              > > > > they
              > > > > are
              > > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass
              > > > > murder.
              > > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV
              > > > > is
              > > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions. I
              > > > > tried
              > > > > to
              > > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie
              > > > > about
              > > > > mass
              > > > > murder.
              > > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do
              > > > > not
              > > > > know
              > > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know
              > > > > many
              > > > > are
              > > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
              > > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > > From: William
              > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
              > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Bill,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and
              > > > > > > aren't
              > > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting earlier
              > > > > > > of
              > > > > > > your
              > > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now open
              > > > > > > to
              > > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use for
              > > > > > > toys
              > > > > > > or
              > > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for
              > > > > > > these
              > > > > > > type
              > > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between
              > > > > > > civilian
              > > > > > > and
              > > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no
              > > > > > > reasonable
              > > > > > > claim
              > > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But
              > > > > > > there
              > > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in
              > > > > > > owning
              > > > > > > a
              > > > > > > gun
              > > > > > > of
              > > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
              > > > > > > emergencies
              > > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow
              > > > > > > of
              > > > > > > no
              > > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and private)
              > > > > > > of,
              > > > > > > say,
              > > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon.
              > > > > > > It's
              > > > > > > not,
              > > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver
              > > > > > > Wendell
              > > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Irvin
              > > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile
              > > > > > > happening
              > > > > > > felt
              > > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
              > > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am finished
              > > > > > with
              > > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a better
              > > > > > mode
              > > > > > of
              > > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
              > > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and
              > > > > > driven to
              > > > > > a
              > > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming and
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > new
              > > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can shock
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > senses
              > > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round
              > > > > > into
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > round
              > > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of
              > > > > > power,almost
              > > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
              > > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be able
              > > > > > to
              > > > > > lessen
              > > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from
              > > > > > keeping
              > > > > > weapons
              > > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily
              > > > > > identified
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should
              > > > > > not
              > > > > > be
              > > > > > taught to shoot.
              > > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in
              > > > > > four
              > > > > > man
              > > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but our
              > > > > > four
              > > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of
              > > > > > boose
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up.
              > > > > > Many
              > > > > > years
              > > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD and
              > > > > > a
              > > > > > life
              > > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our cars.
              > > > > > It
              > > > > > was
              > > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down range.
              > > > > > We
              > > > > > were
              > > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
              > > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you say
              > > > > > there
              > > > > > are
              > > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns
              > > > > > away
              > > > > > and
              > > > > > remember the good times. Bill
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
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            • Mary
              But what if the machine remains useful to those left to use it after you die? Whether we enjoy our end or not matters only to us who are ending. We probably
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 27, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                But what if the machine remains useful to those left to use it after you die? Whether we enjoy our end or not matters only to us who are ending. We probably won't remember it after we end; so enjoying watching the machine burn up is strictly selfish. Just my annoying parental perspective I suppose. On the other hand, it is also a more communal attitude. Isn't part of the work we do what survives and is useful to others?

                Mary

                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
                >
                > Actually ... yes ... let the machine burn up.
                >
                > That is what is all about.
                >
                > I like the phrase ... "time is the fire in which we burn".
                >
                > It all comes to an end. Best to end it in doing what you like.
                >
                > eduard
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: William
                > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:20 PM
                > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Yes, it's a big problem .... work.
                > >
                > > Overall it's hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is
                > > doing
                > > this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic City, 3 more in Washington
                > > doing standards and perhaps 4 more doing actual installation for FAA
                > > approaches. I play catch-up as much as I can, but it has taken its toll.
                > > I'm like an old fire horse who in a way enjoys the ring of the alarm and
                > > run
                > > to the fire. But then I know that it will come to a crashing end one day,
                > > if I continue the way I am going.
                > >
                > > Perhaps a reason for coming back to Existlist.
                > >
                > > Pleased it is working out for you.
                > >
                > > eduardathome
                > > Eduard, I have been in the importance trap and it can get you. As my
                > > cardiologist said you arn`t much good dead. Then I remember Clint Eastwood
                > > "A mans got to know his limitations" Kind of sounds like Dicks know
                > > thyself. As an engineer you might look at the machine, its remaining fuel
                > > and its maintanance record. What do you ask the apparatus to
                > > accomplish?Are you going to ask the machine to just burn up? Bill
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: William
                > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 12:24 PM
                > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Bill,
                > > >
                > > > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from
                > > > France].
                > > > I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I
                > > > thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was the
                > > > son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was
                > > > blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later
                > > > did
                > > > Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their
                > > > lives
                > > > in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
                > > >
                > > > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end
                > > > early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do after
                > > > I
                > > > leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
                > > >
                > > > eduardathome
                > > > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much for
                > > > me
                > > > to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry but
                > > > the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted
                > > > and
                > > > depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did a
                > > > good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the recession.
                > > > For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very hard
                > > > to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated
                > > > by
                > > > stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the
                > > > weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the
                > > > stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is great
                > > > to
                > > > feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time since
                > > > my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from
                > > > stress.
                > > I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to
                > > do
                > > some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of
                > > business
                > > has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good business
                > > man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw
                > > people
                > > and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in
                > > running
                > > your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and
                > > employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a hundred
                > > employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my employees.
                > > In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard
                > > play
                > > hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It burned
                > > me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full retirement
                > > age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I am
                > > looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet
                > > park
                > > like neighborhood
                > > with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if they
                > > dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters. And
                > > we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls eating
                > > sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the family
                > > they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I
                > > could
                > > hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The
                > > sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven
                > > foot
                > > tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading
                > > the
                > > house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here if
                > > I
                > > can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it is
                > > what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement
                > > they
                > > planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to get
                > > what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and
                > > deserve a happy lifestyle
                > > in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but attitude
                > > about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing.
                > > Bill
                > > > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: William
                > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
                > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will take
                > > > > some
                > > > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a
                > > > > Separatist
                > > > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new attempt
                > > > > at
                > > > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist
                > > > > government
                > > > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on election
                > > > > night
                > > > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to give
                > > > > her
                > > > > victory speech.
                > > > >
                > > > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and
                > > > > which
                > > > > are
                > > > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
                > > > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and
                > > > > settled
                > > > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female "cousin",
                > > > > a
                > > > > son
                > > > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was
                > > > > actually
                > > > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to
                > > > > have
                > > > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act
                > > > > differently
                > > > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be. So
                > > > > to
                > > > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3 girls.
                > > > > The
                > > > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the
                > > > > Rideau
                > > > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in a
                > > > > near
                > > > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31
                > > > > million,
                > > > > that's a lot.
                > > > >
                > > > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have
                > > > > another
                > > > > life to go to.
                > > > >
                > > > > eduardathome
                > > > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep
                > > > > bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants
                > > > > make
                > > > > us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what
                > > > > the
                > > > > bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the
                > > > > less
                > > > > wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If
                > > > > that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
                > > > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native
                > > > american
                > > > and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most
                > > > unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away
                > > > they
                > > > were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad
                > > > people
                > > > were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards but
                > > > must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick
                > > > and
                > > > choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to
                > > > retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting because
                > > > they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing
                > > > earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if
                > > > available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As with
                > > > any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were
                > > > beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I
                > > > did
                > > > not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now
                > > I
                > > > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival just
                > > > as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a subordinate
                > > > position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is
                > > > challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much
                > > > junk
                > > > and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other
                > > > things
                > > > are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all
                > > > my
                > > > fingers! Bill
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > From: William
                > > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
                > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the
                > > > > > law
                > > > > > was
                > > > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of Wild
                > > > > > West
                > > > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the
                > > > > > lawless.
                > > > > > A
                > > > > > lot
                > > > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
                > > > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of
                > > > > > bloodbath.
                > > > > > For
                > > > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP]
                > > > > > killed
                > > > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In
                > > > > > the
                > > > > > end,
                > > > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left a
                > > > > > lot
                > > > > > of
                > > > > > bad feeling.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of
                > > > > > rebellions
                > > > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and
                > > > > > Lower
                > > > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the
                > > > > > capital
                > > > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down. The
                > > > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a
                > > > > > greater
                > > > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West
                > > > > > and
                > > > > > Civil
                > > > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists
                > > > > > into
                > > > > > modern times.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather
                > > > > > than
                > > > > > the
                > > > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out now
                > > > > > and
                > > > > > then
                > > > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are
                > > > > > to
                > > > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
                > > > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French
                > > > > > minorities
                > > > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps
                > > > > > Alberta].
                > > > > > But
                > > > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First
                > > > > > Nations
                > > > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the
                > > > > > north.
                > > > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture.
                > > > > > Quebec
                > > > > > which
                > > > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
                > > > > > Francophones
                > > > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
                > > > > > culture.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > eduardathome
                > > > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not
                > > > > > taught
                > > > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to Canada
                > > > > > to
                > > > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would
                > > > > > know
                > > > > > how
                > > > > > to fish.
                > > > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a canadian
                > > > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for
                > > > > our
                > > > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid
                > > > > east
                > > > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be left
                > > > > to
                > > > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we
                > > > > get
                > > > > out
                > > > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected
                > > > > them
                > > > > with
                > > > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be
                > > > > modified.
                > > > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending for
                > > > > the
                > > > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like gun
                > > > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments.
                > > > > We
                > > > > do
                > > > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern
                > > > > countries
                > > > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and it
                > > > > is
                > > > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets with
                > > > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as
                > > > > the
                > > > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to shoot
                > > > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic
                > > > > shootings
                > > > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
                > > > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is
                > > > > down
                > > > > and
                > > > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
                > > > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true.
                > > > > Lindsey
                > > > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns an
                > > > > AR15.
                > > > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern
                > > > > bravado
                > > > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more
                > > > > socially
                > > > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had
                > > > > to
                > > > > have
                > > > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we
                > > > > must
                > > > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think it
                > > > > is
                > > > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire
                > > > > at
                > > > > the
                > > > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m
                > > > > worn
                > > > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I
                > > > > dug
                > > > > out
                > > > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with
                > > > > me.
                > > > > I am
                > > > > becomming a house husband and
                > > > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to see
                > > > > how
                > > > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the
                > > > > patients
                > > > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and
                > > > > hands
                > > > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
                > > > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I
                > > > > hope
                > > > > you
                > > > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > > From: William
                > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
                > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold onto
                > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > "good
                > > > > > > times".
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is
                > > > > > > great, is
                > > > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your
                > > > > > > piece
                > > > > > > of
                > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it possible
                > > > > > > to
                > > > > > > keep
                > > > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to
                > > > > > > guns.
                > > > > > > Obama
                > > > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > eduardathome
                > > > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just
                > > > > > > want
                > > > > > > to
                > > > > > > get
                > > > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds
                > > > > > > future
                > > > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at
                > > > > > > all
                > > > > > > and
                > > > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does not
                > > > > > > seem
                > > > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple
                > > > > > > bicultural
                > > > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and
                > > > > > > fear
                > > > > > > and
                > > > > > > gun ownership.
                > > > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger
                > > > > > than
                > > > > > the
                > > > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there
                > > > > > will
                > > > > > be
                > > > > > a
                > > > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
                > > > > > politics.
                > > > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I
                > > > > > have
                > > > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the
                > > > > > predominant
                > > > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and now
                > > > > > they
                > > > > > are
                > > > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass
                > > > > > murder.
                > > > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV
                > > > > > is
                > > > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions. I
                > > > > > tried
                > > > > > to
                > > > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie
                > > > > > about
                > > > > > mass
                > > > > > murder.
                > > > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do
                > > > > > not
                > > > > > know
                > > > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know
                > > > > > many
                > > > > > are
                > > > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
                > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > > > From: William
                > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
                > > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Bill,
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and
                > > > > > > > aren't
                > > > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting earlier
                > > > > > > > of
                > > > > > > > your
                > > > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now open
                > > > > > > > to
                > > > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use for
                > > > > > > > toys
                > > > > > > > or
                > > > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for
                > > > > > > > these
                > > > > > > > type
                > > > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between
                > > > > > > > civilian
                > > > > > > > and
                > > > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no
                > > > > > > > reasonable
                > > > > > > > claim
                > > > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But
                > > > > > > > there
                > > > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in
                > > > > > > > owning
                > > > > > > > a
                > > > > > > > gun
                > > > > > > > of
                > > > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
                > > > > > > > emergencies
                > > > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow
                > > > > > > > of
                > > > > > > > no
                > > > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and private)
                > > > > > > > of,
                > > > > > > > say,
                > > > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon.
                > > > > > > > It's
                > > > > > > > not,
                > > > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver
                > > > > > > > Wendell
                > > > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Irvin
                > > > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile
                > > > > > > > happening
                > > > > > > > felt
                > > > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
                > > > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am finished
                > > > > > > with
                > > > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a better
                > > > > > > mode
                > > > > > > of
                > > > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
                > > > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and
                > > > > > > driven to
                > > > > > > a
                > > > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming and
                > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > new
                > > > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can shock
                > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > senses
                > > > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round
                > > > > > > into
                > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew
                > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > round
                > > > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of
                > > > > > > power,almost
                > > > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
                > > > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be able
                > > > > > > to
                > > > > > > lessen
                > > > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from
                > > > > > > keeping
                > > > > > > weapons
                > > > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily
                > > > > > > identified
                > > > > > > and
                > > > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should
                > > > > > > not
                > > > > > > be
                > > > > > > taught to shoot.
                > > > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in
                > > > > > > four
                > > > > > > man
                > > > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but our
                > > > > > > four
                > > > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of
                > > > > > > boose
                > > > > > > and
                > > > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up.
                > > > > > > Many
                > > > > > > years
                > > > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD and
                > > > > > > a
                > > > > > > life
                > > > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our cars.
                > > > > > > It
                > > > > > > was
                > > > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down range.
                > > > > > > We
                > > > > > > were
                > > > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
                > > > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you say
                > > > > > > there
                > > > > > > are
                > > > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns
                > > > > > > away
                > > > > > > and
                > > > > > > remember the good times. Bill
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
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              • eduardathome
                I would suggest that everything we do is useful in some way [the machine] to others ... to the next generation. Our work is useful because we are there to
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 27, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  I would suggest that everything we do is useful in some way [the machine] to
                  others ... to the next generation. Our work is useful because we are there
                  to service the general forward movement of humanity. In some cases, it may
                  be hard to identify. For example, does the person who makes money from
                  selling Pet Rocks foster the progress of humanity?? One might say that the
                  person digging ditches to be of more service. But then Pet Rock sellers are
                  not on my mind right now, so the matter doesn't bug me.

                  My own work involves the development of standards and guidance material in
                  the world of aviation. It is hard to conceive of my just ending it one day.
                  What I am searching for is a means to keep it going even though I am not
                  actually employed in an office.

                  Granted, I do have other interests that take up my time. I am deep into
                  philosophy of a sort and could do that as well. As long as I can punch a
                  button on the keyboard.

                  eduardathome

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mary
                  Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:57 AM
                  To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info

                  But what if the machine remains useful to those left to use it after you
                  die? Whether we enjoy our end or not matters only to us who are ending. We
                  probably won't remember it after we end; so enjoying watching the machine
                  burn up is strictly selfish. Just my annoying parental perspective I
                  suppose. On the other hand, it is also a more communal attitude. Isn't part
                  of the work we do what survives and is useful to others?

                  Mary

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Actually ... yes ... let the machine burn up.
                  >
                  > That is what is all about.
                  >
                  > I like the phrase ... "time is the fire in which we burn".
                  >
                  > It all comes to an end. Best to end it in doing what you like.
                  >
                  > eduard
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: William
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:20 PM
                  > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes, it's a big problem .... work.
                  > >
                  > > Overall it's hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is
                  > > doing
                  > > this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic City, 3 more in Washington
                  > > doing standards and perhaps 4 more doing actual installation for FAA
                  > > approaches. I play catch-up as much as I can, but it has taken its
                  > > toll.
                  > > I'm like an old fire horse who in a way enjoys the ring of the alarm and
                  > > run
                  > > to the fire. But then I know that it will come to a crashing end one
                  > > day,
                  > > if I continue the way I am going.
                  > >
                  > > Perhaps a reason for coming back to Existlist.
                  > >
                  > > Pleased it is working out for you.
                  > >
                  > > eduardathome
                  > > Eduard, I have been in the importance trap and it can get you. As my
                  > > cardiologist said you arn`t much good dead. Then I remember Clint
                  > > Eastwood
                  > > "A mans got to know his limitations" Kind of sounds like Dicks know
                  > > thyself. As an engineer you might look at the machine, its remaining
                  > > fuel
                  > > and its maintanance record. What do you ask the apparatus to
                  > > accomplish?Are you going to ask the machine to just burn up? Bill
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: William
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 12:24 PM
                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill,
                  > > >
                  > > > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from
                  > > > France].
                  > > > I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I
                  > > > thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was
                  > > > the
                  > > > son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was
                  > > > blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later
                  > > > did
                  > > > Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their
                  > > > lives
                  > > > in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
                  > > >
                  > > > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end
                  > > > early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do
                  > > > after
                  > > > I
                  > > > leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
                  > > >
                  > > > eduardathome
                  > > > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much
                  > > > for
                  > > > me
                  > > > to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry
                  > > > but
                  > > > the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted
                  > > > and
                  > > > depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did
                  > > > a
                  > > > good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the
                  > > > recession.
                  > > > For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very
                  > > > hard
                  > > > to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated
                  > > > by
                  > > > stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the
                  > > > weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the
                  > > > stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is
                  > > > great
                  > > > to
                  > > > feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time
                  > > > since
                  > > > my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from
                  > > > stress.
                  > > I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to
                  > > do
                  > > some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of
                  > > business
                  > > has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good
                  > > business
                  > > man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw
                  > > people
                  > > and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in
                  > > running
                  > > your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and
                  > > employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a
                  > > hundred
                  > > employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my
                  > > employees.
                  > > In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard
                  > > play
                  > > hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It
                  > > burned
                  > > me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full
                  > > retirement
                  > > age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I
                  > > am
                  > > looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet
                  > > park
                  > > like neighborhood
                  > > with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if
                  > > they
                  > > dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters.
                  > > And
                  > > we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls
                  > > eating
                  > > sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the
                  > > family
                  > > they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I
                  > > could
                  > > hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The
                  > > sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven
                  > > foot
                  > > tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading
                  > > the
                  > > house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here
                  > > if
                  > > I
                  > > can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it
                  > > is
                  > > what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement
                  > > they
                  > > planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to
                  > > get
                  > > what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and
                  > > deserve a happy lifestyle
                  > > in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but
                  > > attitude
                  > > about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing.
                  > > Bill
                  > > > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: William
                  > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
                  > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will
                  > > > > take
                  > > > > some
                  > > > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a
                  > > > > Separatist
                  > > > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new
                  > > > > attempt
                  > > > > at
                  > > > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist
                  > > > > government
                  > > > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on
                  > > > > election
                  > > > > night
                  > > > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to
                  > > > > give
                  > > > > her
                  > > > > victory speech.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and
                  > > > > which
                  > > > > are
                  > > > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
                  > > > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and
                  > > > > settled
                  > > > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female
                  > > > > "cousin",
                  > > > > a
                  > > > > son
                  > > > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was
                  > > > > actually
                  > > > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to
                  > > > > have
                  > > > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act
                  > > > > differently
                  > > > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be.
                  > > > > So
                  > > > > to
                  > > > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3
                  > > > > girls.
                  > > > > The
                  > > > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the
                  > > > > Rideau
                  > > > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in
                  > > > > a
                  > > > > near
                  > > > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31
                  > > > > million,
                  > > > > that's a lot.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have
                  > > > > another
                  > > > > life to go to.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > eduardathome
                  > > > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep
                  > > > > bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants
                  > > > > make
                  > > > > us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the
                  > > > > less
                  > > > > wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If
                  > > > > that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
                  > > > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native
                  > > > american
                  > > > and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most
                  > > > unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away
                  > > > they
                  > > > were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad
                  > > > people
                  > > > were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards
                  > > > but
                  > > > must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick
                  > > > and
                  > > > choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to
                  > > > retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting
                  > > > because
                  > > > they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing
                  > > > earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if
                  > > > available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As
                  > > > with
                  > > > any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were
                  > > > beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I
                  > > > did
                  > > > not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now
                  > > I
                  > > > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival
                  > > > just
                  > > > as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a
                  > > > subordinate
                  > > > position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is
                  > > > challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much
                  > > > junk
                  > > > and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other
                  > > > things
                  > > > are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all
                  > > > my
                  > > > fingers! Bill
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: William
                  > > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
                  > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the
                  > > > > > law
                  > > > > > was
                  > > > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of
                  > > > > > Wild
                  > > > > > West
                  > > > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the
                  > > > > > lawless.
                  > > > > > A
                  > > > > > lot
                  > > > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
                  > > > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of
                  > > > > > bloodbath.
                  > > > > > For
                  > > > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP]
                  > > > > > killed
                  > > > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In
                  > > > > > the
                  > > > > > end,
                  > > > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left
                  > > > > > a
                  > > > > > lot
                  > > > > > of
                  > > > > > bad feeling.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of
                  > > > > > rebellions
                  > > > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and
                  > > > > > Lower
                  > > > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the
                  > > > > > capital
                  > > > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down.
                  > > > > > The
                  > > > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a
                  > > > > > greater
                  > > > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West
                  > > > > > and
                  > > > > > Civil
                  > > > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists
                  > > > > > into
                  > > > > > modern times.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather
                  > > > > > than
                  > > > > > the
                  > > > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out
                  > > > > > now
                  > > > > > and
                  > > > > > then
                  > > > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are
                  > > > > > to
                  > > > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
                  > > > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French
                  > > > > > minorities
                  > > > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps
                  > > > > > Alberta].
                  > > > > > But
                  > > > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First
                  > > > > > Nations
                  > > > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the
                  > > > > > north.
                  > > > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture.
                  > > > > > Quebec
                  > > > > > which
                  > > > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
                  > > > > > Francophones
                  > > > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
                  > > > > > culture.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > eduardathome
                  > > > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not
                  > > > > > taught
                  > > > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to
                  > > > > > Canada
                  > > > > > to
                  > > > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would
                  > > > > > know
                  > > > > > how
                  > > > > > to fish.
                  > > > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a
                  > > > > canadian
                  > > > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for
                  > > > > our
                  > > > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid
                  > > > > east
                  > > > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be
                  > > > > left
                  > > > > to
                  > > > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we
                  > > > > get
                  > > > > out
                  > > > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected
                  > > > > them
                  > > > > with
                  > > > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be
                  > > > > modified.
                  > > > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending
                  > > > > for
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like
                  > > > > gun
                  > > > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments.
                  > > > > We
                  > > > > do
                  > > > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern
                  > > > > countries
                  > > > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and
                  > > > > it
                  > > > > is
                  > > > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets
                  > > > > with
                  > > > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to
                  > > > > shoot
                  > > > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic
                  > > > > shootings
                  > > > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
                  > > > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is
                  > > > > down
                  > > > > and
                  > > > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
                  > > > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true.
                  > > > > Lindsey
                  > > > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns
                  > > > > an
                  > > > > AR15.
                  > > > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern
                  > > > > bravado
                  > > > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more
                  > > > > socially
                  > > > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had
                  > > > > to
                  > > > > have
                  > > > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we
                  > > > > must
                  > > > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think
                  > > > > it
                  > > > > is
                  > > > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire
                  > > > > at
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m
                  > > > > worn
                  > > > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I
                  > > > > dug
                  > > > > out
                  > > > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with
                  > > > > me.
                  > > > > I am
                  > > > > becomming a house husband and
                  > > > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to
                  > > > > see
                  > > > > how
                  > > > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the
                  > > > > patients
                  > > > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and
                  > > > > hands
                  > > > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
                  > > > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I
                  > > > > hope
                  > > > > you
                  > > > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > > From: William
                  > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
                  > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold
                  > > > > > > onto
                  > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > "good
                  > > > > > > times".
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is
                  > > > > > > great, is
                  > > > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your
                  > > > > > > piece
                  > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it
                  > > > > > > possible
                  > > > > > > to
                  > > > > > > keep
                  > > > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to
                  > > > > > > guns.
                  > > > > > > Obama
                  > > > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > eduardathome
                  > > > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just
                  > > > > > > want
                  > > > > > > to
                  > > > > > > get
                  > > > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds
                  > > > > > > future
                  > > > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at
                  > > > > > > all
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does
                  > > > > > > not
                  > > > > > > seem
                  > > > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple
                  > > > > > > bicultural
                  > > > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and
                  > > > > > > fear
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > gun ownership.
                  > > > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger
                  > > > > > than
                  > > > > > the
                  > > > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there
                  > > > > > will
                  > > > > > be
                  > > > > > a
                  > > > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
                  > > > > > politics.
                  > > > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I
                  > > > > > have
                  > > > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the
                  > > > > > predominant
                  > > > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and
                  > > > > > now
                  > > > > > they
                  > > > > > are
                  > > > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass
                  > > > > > murder.
                  > > > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV
                  > > > > > is
                  > > > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions.
                  > > > > > I
                  > > > > > tried
                  > > > > > to
                  > > > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie
                  > > > > > about
                  > > > > > mass
                  > > > > > murder.
                  > > > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do
                  > > > > > not
                  > > > > > know
                  > > > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know
                  > > > > > many
                  > > > > > are
                  > > > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
                  > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > > > From: William
                  > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
                  > > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Bill,
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and
                  > > > > > > > aren't
                  > > > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting
                  > > > > > > > earlier
                  > > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > > your
                  > > > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now
                  > > > > > > > open
                  > > > > > > > to
                  > > > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use
                  > > > > > > > for
                  > > > > > > > toys
                  > > > > > > > or
                  > > > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for
                  > > > > > > > these
                  > > > > > > > type
                  > > > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between
                  > > > > > > > civilian
                  > > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no
                  > > > > > > > reasonable
                  > > > > > > > claim
                  > > > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But
                  > > > > > > > there
                  > > > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in
                  > > > > > > > owning
                  > > > > > > > a
                  > > > > > > > gun
                  > > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
                  > > > > > > > emergencies
                  > > > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow
                  > > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > > no
                  > > > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and
                  > > > > > > > private)
                  > > > > > > > of,
                  > > > > > > > say,
                  > > > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon.
                  > > > > > > > It's
                  > > > > > > > not,
                  > > > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver
                  > > > > > > > Wendell
                  > > > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Irvin
                  > > > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile
                  > > > > > > > happening
                  > > > > > > > felt
                  > > > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
                  > > > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am
                  > > > > > > finished
                  > > > > > > with
                  > > > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a
                  > > > > > > better
                  > > > > > > mode
                  > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
                  > > > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and
                  > > > > > > driven to
                  > > > > > > a
                  > > > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > new
                  > > > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can
                  > > > > > > shock
                  > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > senses
                  > > > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round
                  > > > > > > into
                  > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew
                  > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > round
                  > > > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of
                  > > > > > > power,almost
                  > > > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
                  > > > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be
                  > > > > > > able
                  > > > > > > to
                  > > > > > > lessen
                  > > > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from
                  > > > > > > keeping
                  > > > > > > weapons
                  > > > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily
                  > > > > > > identified
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should
                  > > > > > > not
                  > > > > > > be
                  > > > > > > taught to shoot.
                  > > > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in
                  > > > > > > four
                  > > > > > > man
                  > > > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but
                  > > > > > > our
                  > > > > > > four
                  > > > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of
                  > > > > > > boose
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up.
                  > > > > > > Many
                  > > > > > > years
                  > > > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > a
                  > > > > > > life
                  > > > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our
                  > > > > > > cars.
                  > > > > > > It
                  > > > > > > was
                  > > > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down
                  > > > > > > range.
                  > > > > > > We
                  > > > > > > were
                  > > > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
                  > > > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you
                  > > > > > > say
                  > > > > > > there
                  > > > > > > are
                  > > > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns
                  > > > > > > away
                  > > > > > > and
                  > > > > > > remember the good times. Bill
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
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                • Mary
                  So then you didn t really mean let the machine burn; you probably meant that you have to let go of it, not cling to your contribution to your field. There is
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 27, 2012
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                    So then you didn't really mean let the machine burn; you probably meant that you have to let go of it, not cling to your contribution to your field. There is also liberation in letting go, in knowing the next generation might scrap or build upon our endeavors.

                    Regarding philosophy, not only our fingers should remain dextrous. A healthy retirement, according to some, includes a walk every day and interacting with younger people, at the very least. If we approach philosophy speculatively and not just dogmatically, conversation and thinking about it remain interesting.

                    Mary

                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I would suggest that everything we do is useful in some way [the machine] to
                    > others ... to the next generation. Our work is useful because we are there
                    > to service the general forward movement of humanity. In some cases, it may
                    > be hard to identify. For example, does the person who makes money from
                    > selling Pet Rocks foster the progress of humanity?? One might say that the
                    > person digging ditches to be of more service. But then Pet Rock sellers are
                    > not on my mind right now, so the matter doesn't bug me.
                    >
                    > My own work involves the development of standards and guidance material in
                    > the world of aviation. It is hard to conceive of my just ending it one day.
                    > What I am searching for is a means to keep it going even though I am not
                    > actually employed in an office.
                    >
                    > Granted, I do have other interests that take up my time. I am deep into
                    > philosophy of a sort and could do that as well. As long as I can punch a
                    > button on the keyboard.
                    >
                    > eduardathome
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Mary
                    > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:57 AM
                    > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    >
                    > But what if the machine remains useful to those left to use it after you
                    > die? Whether we enjoy our end or not matters only to us who are ending. We
                    > probably won't remember it after we end; so enjoying watching the machine
                    > burn up is strictly selfish. Just my annoying parental perspective I
                    > suppose. On the other hand, it is also a more communal attitude. Isn't part
                    > of the work we do what survives and is useful to others?
                    >
                    > Mary
                    >
                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Actually ... yes ... let the machine burn up.
                    > >
                    > > That is what is all about.
                    > >
                    > > I like the phrase ... "time is the fire in which we burn".
                    > >
                    > > It all comes to an end. Best to end it in doing what you like.
                    > >
                    > > eduard
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: William
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:20 PM
                    > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, it's a big problem .... work.
                    > > >
                    > > > Overall it's hard and stressful as I am the only one in Canada who is
                    > > > doing
                    > > > this stuff. FAA has 2 engineers in Atlantic City, 3 more in Washington
                    > > > doing standards and perhaps 4 more doing actual installation for FAA
                    > > > approaches. I play catch-up as much as I can, but it has taken its
                    > > > toll.
                    > > > I'm like an old fire horse who in a way enjoys the ring of the alarm and
                    > > > run
                    > > > to the fire. But then I know that it will come to a crashing end one
                    > > > day,
                    > > > if I continue the way I am going.
                    > > >
                    > > > Perhaps a reason for coming back to Existlist.
                    > > >
                    > > > Pleased it is working out for you.
                    > > >
                    > > > eduardathome
                    > > > Eduard, I have been in the importance trap and it can get you. As my
                    > > > cardiologist said you arn`t much good dead. Then I remember Clint
                    > > > Eastwood
                    > > > "A mans got to know his limitations" Kind of sounds like Dicks know
                    > > > thyself. As an engineer you might look at the machine, its remaining
                    > > > fuel
                    > > > and its maintanance record. What do you ask the apparatus to
                    > > > accomplish?Are you going to ask the machine to just burn up? Bill
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: William
                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 12:24 PM
                    > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Bill,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I am watching a documentary about Joe Dassin on TV5 [channel from
                    > > > > France].
                    > > > > I was surprised that he died in 1980 at 41 years. For some reason I
                    > > > > thought he was still alive. But also interested to find that he was
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > son of Jules Dassin a famous Hollywood director. Jules Dassin was
                    > > > > blacklisted in 1950 in the McCarthy era. He moved to Europe and later
                    > > > > did
                    > > > > Topkapi. He was married to Melina Mercouri and they lived out their
                    > > > > lives
                    > > > > in Greece. Jules Dassin died in 2008, aged 96.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The point of all this is to play on the idea of life itself. Some end
                    > > > > early, some later, but it all ends. What bothers me is what to do
                    > > > > after
                    > > > > I
                    > > > > leave Transport Canada, as my work here gives purpose and reason.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > eduardathome
                    > > > > Eduard, If you can continue then go on. It was becomming too much
                    > > > > for
                    > > > > me
                    > > > > to continue so I bailed out. I still had good moments in dentistry
                    > > > > but
                    > > > > the effort to continue completely ruled my life and left me exhausted
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > depleated. My contemporaries were mostly gone or limping along. I did
                    > > > > a
                    > > > > good deal of union work and the trades took a big hit in the
                    > > > > recession.
                    > > > > For years I did not define myself as a dentist , and it became very
                    > > > > hard
                    > > > > to go to the office. Then there was the arythemia that was exacerbated
                    > > > > by
                    > > > > stress which would build during the week and leave me a wreck by the
                    > > > > weekend. By Monday I often was not recovered. Now I feel good as the
                    > > > > stress is going away and my physical strength is returning. It is
                    > > > > great
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > feel physically and emotionally sound. I feel better than any time
                    > > > > since
                    > > > > my cardiac episode as the meds seem to work well if I stay away from
                    > > > > stress.
                    > > > I have not found two people who react the same to retirement. We hope to
                    > > > do
                    > > > some traveling after the sale of the practise. That last blast of
                    > > > business
                    > > > has not been enjoyable. I did not like business as being a good
                    > > > business
                    > > > man seemed to go along with screwing people. I did not want to screw
                    > > > people
                    > > > and did not enjoy being screwed. There is very little protection in
                    > > > running
                    > > > your own business and lots of people take shots at you. Associates and
                    > > > employees are a big burden. I had ten associates and more than a
                    > > > hundred
                    > > > employees. At one period I did not know the names of some of my
                    > > > employees.
                    > > > In the big days I was at it twelve hours a day. I was in the work hard
                    > > > play
                    > > > hard mode and that may not have been the most wise philosophy. It
                    > > > burned
                    > > > me out and set me up for the heart problems. I made it to full
                    > > > retirement
                    > > > age but just barley as the last year was very hard. For those reasons I
                    > > > am
                    > > > looking forward to becoming a quiet, older person. We live in a quiet
                    > > > park
                    > > > like neighborhood
                    > > > with few pretenses. Priscilla still works part time and enjoys it if
                    > > > they
                    > > > dont work her too hard. We have a deck where we can feed the critters.
                    > > > And
                    > > > we still have Cancun the cat. At the moment there are two squirrls
                    > > > eating
                    > > > sun flower seeds on the deck. I do not know what generation of the
                    > > > family
                    > > > they might be but they certainly know the drill. If I tried I think I
                    > > > could
                    > > > hand feed them. The rabbits stand and listen if you talk to them . The
                    > > > sculpture garden is full with strange creations I have made . A seven
                    > > > foot
                    > > > tall young budda guardes the back door with the giant oak trees shading
                    > > > the
                    > > > house. It is not posh but it is tranquil even pastoral. It is all here
                    > > > if
                    > > > I
                    > > > can generate an attitude to match it. So it is chin up and be happy, it
                    > > > is
                    > > > what we worked so long for. For those who I have seen enjoy retirement
                    > > > they
                    > > > planned for it and we have done that. Eduard, I hope you find a way to
                    > > > get
                    > > > what you want out of later life. Iknow you have worked very hard and
                    > > > deserve a happy lifestyle
                    > > > in whatever mode you choose. Perhaps you will keep working but
                    > > > attitude
                    > > > about retirement seems most important. getting old is not a bad thing.
                    > > > Bill
                    > > > > (the photo of Joe Dassin may not get through on this discussion site).
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > From: William
                    > > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:12 PM
                    > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > It isn't all roses up here. We have a lot of problems which will
                    > > > > > take
                    > > > > > some
                    > > > > > effort to move out of the way. In September, Quebec elected a
                    > > > > > Separatist
                    > > > > > government. Fortunately only a minority government, so a new
                    > > > > > attempt
                    > > > > > at
                    > > > > > separation is put off for a while. The head of the separatist
                    > > > > > government
                    > > > > > is a woman ... Pauline Marois. Someone tried to shoot her on
                    > > > > > election
                    > > > > > night
                    > > > > > but managed to only kill a janitor at the place where she was to
                    > > > > > give
                    > > > > > her
                    > > > > > victory speech.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > And then we have a huge immigrant population that has arrived and
                    > > > > > which
                    > > > > > are
                    > > > > > bringing their own problems like honour killing. A family came from
                    > > > > > Afghanistan ... in a roundabout way through Dubai and such ... and
                    > > > > > settled
                    > > > > > in Montreal. There was the husband, his "wife", his female
                    > > > > > "cousin",
                    > > > > > a
                    > > > > > son
                    > > > > > and 3 daughters. Perhaps more children. Turns out, the "wife" was
                    > > > > > actually
                    > > > > > a second wife and the cousin was his first "wife" who was unable to
                    > > > > > have
                    > > > > > children. The girls of the second wife started to dress and act
                    > > > > > differently
                    > > > > > in Montreal. A bit on the wild side as teenage daughters will be.
                    > > > > > So
                    > > > > > to
                    > > > > > solve this "dishonour", they murdered the first wife and the 3
                    > > > > > girls.
                    > > > > > The
                    > > > > > thing to do in Afghanistan, I suppose. The bodies were found in the
                    > > > > > Rideau
                    > > > > > Canal near Kingston, Ontario. The federal government is bringing in
                    > > > > > a
                    > > > > > near
                    > > > > > million more people every 2 years. With a population of only 31
                    > > > > > million,
                    > > > > > that's a lot.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Anyway, I am not looking forward to retirement. I really don't have
                    > > > > > another
                    > > > > > life to go to.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > eduardathome
                    > > > > > Eduard, we have had so many immigration screw ups but we just keep
                    > > > > > bringing them in. It is a matter of faith here that the immigrants
                    > > > > > make
                    > > > > > us strong but I see we have often paid huge prices and wonder what
                    > > > > > the
                    > > > > > bottom line really is. The less civilised, the less educated, the
                    > > > > > less
                    > > > > > wealthy for some reason some people see them as the great catch. If
                    > > > > > that is a symbol of an ultimate liberal I just don`t measure up.
                    > > > > The hispanics are doing well here, why not, they are part native
                    > > > > american
                    > > > > and they were the first settlers. The Hmong were some of the most
                    > > > > unfortunate. many just killed themselves when they saw how far away
                    > > > > they
                    > > > > were in this culture. There was just no common ground and those sad
                    > > > > people
                    > > > > were true aliens. Kirkegaar said life can only be viewed backwards
                    > > > > but
                    > > > > must be lived forward. I have always had trouble with Soren as I pick
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > choose memories at will and am not bound by a chronology. I want to
                    > > > > retire because I wanted change. The upcoming days are exciting
                    > > > > because
                    > > > > they will break long held habits. So I will live life forward knowing
                    > > > > earned leasure is not wrong and should be accepted graciously if
                    > > > > available. I know I have become inept at taking care of myself. As
                    > > > > with
                    > > > > any lifestyle it was not perfect and some of the defeciencies were
                    > > > > beginning to become obvious, apparent. I could not shop for myself, I
                    > > > > did
                    > > > > not know where the food was ,where the tolitries could be found.Now
                    > > > I
                    > > > > know how to do dishes and clean. Priscilla is teaching me survival
                    > > > > just
                    > > > > as I once taught her outdoor survival. It is fine to take a
                    > > > > subordinate
                    > > > > position whan you are honestly subordinate. At present cleaning is
                    > > > > challenging because I was soo far behind. I have pitched out so much
                    > > > > junk
                    > > > > and parting with personal items in itself can cause anxiety. Other
                    > > > > things
                    > > > > are really fun as I just learned to clever crab legs. I still have all
                    > > > > my
                    > > > > fingers! Bill
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > > From: William
                    > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 11:34 AM
                    > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Canada has a different history. When the pioneers went west, the
                    > > > > > > law
                    > > > > > > was
                    > > > > > > already there. So for the most part we don't have this sort of
                    > > > > > > Wild
                    > > > > > > West
                    > > > > > > where the pioneers were essentially on their own against the
                    > > > > > > lawless.
                    > > > > > > A
                    > > > > > > lot
                    > > > > > > of the conflict out west was community related such as the Metis
                    > > > > > > [French-Indian] uprising. But even then it wasn't a sort of
                    > > > > > > bloodbath.
                    > > > > > > For
                    > > > > > > example, the battle of Duck Lake had some 12 RCMP [then the NWMP]
                    > > > > > > killed
                    > > > > > > before the RCMP retreated. I suppose it was big at the time. In
                    > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > end,
                    > > > > > > the Metis' leader Louis Riel was captured and hung. That has left
                    > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > lot
                    > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > bad feeling.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > We did have a kind of civil war, but it was more in the way of
                    > > > > > > rebellions
                    > > > > > > against the local authorities in both Upper Canada [Ontario] and
                    > > > > > > Lower
                    > > > > > > Canada [Quebec]. Ottawa was ultimately selected in 1857 as the
                    > > > > > > capital
                    > > > > > > after the previous parliaments in other cities were burnt down.
                    > > > > > > The
                    > > > > > > selection was for a number of reasons one of which being the a
                    > > > > > > greater
                    > > > > > > distant from the border in case of another US invasion.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > So basically we did not have the sort of history as the Wild West
                    > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > Civil
                    > > > > > > War that had a huge impact on the outlook of Americans that exists
                    > > > > > > into
                    > > > > > > modern times.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Canada is molded primarily by issues related to community rather
                    > > > > > > than
                    > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > individual. That makes a big difference.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > We have a certain aggressive religious minority. They come out
                    > > > > > > now
                    > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > then
                    > > > > > > to protest the same sort of things as in the US such as abortion.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > We are not really a bicultural country. We like to pretend we are
                    > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > outsiders. The country is composed of a province [Quebec] that is
                    > > > > > > unilingual French and then some provinces with a large French
                    > > > > > > minorities
                    > > > > > > [New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and perhaps
                    > > > > > > Alberta].
                    > > > > > > But
                    > > > > > > then in each there are also other minorities and that of the First
                    > > > > > > Nations
                    > > > > > > has become more vocal lately. And then there are the Inuit in the
                    > > > > > > north.
                    > > > > > > So it isn't that easy to pocket us into this or that culture.
                    > > > > > > Quebec
                    > > > > > > which
                    > > > > > > presently has a separatist government and I suppose most of the
                    > > > > > > Francophones
                    > > > > > > in the province see the Rest of Canada [ROC] as having no defined
                    > > > > > > culture.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > eduardathome
                    > > > > > > Eduard,thank you for the Canadian history, down here we are not
                    > > > > > > taught
                    > > > > > > about your country. I used to hear about people who went to
                    > > > > > > Canada
                    > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > fish but now most Americans are city folk and I doubt they would
                    > > > > > > know
                    > > > > > > how
                    > > > > > > to fish.
                    > > > > > I just read that Chevron is in a big natural gas deal with a
                    > > > > > canadian
                    > > > > > company. I think energy independance will make a big difference for
                    > > > > > our
                    > > > > > countries in the coming decades. I know Americans are tired of mid
                    > > > > > east
                    > > > > > involvement and if you and us become exporters the arabs can be
                    > > > > > left
                    > > > > > to
                    > > > > > run their own societies. They did it for a thousand years and if we
                    > > > > > get
                    > > > > > out
                    > > > > > I think they will manage again. Western mass culture has infected
                    > > > > > them
                    > > > > > with
                    > > > > > ideas like rudamentary democracy and the old islamic ways will be
                    > > > > > modified.
                    > > > > > I like the chances for the future, less war, more social spending
                    > > > > > for
                    > > > > > the
                    > > > > > people and a more even prosperity for all. Even crazy things like
                    > > > > > gun
                    > > > > > violence would be helped by mental health advances and treatments.
                    > > > > > We
                    > > > > > do
                    > > > > > not know we are odd regarding guns and do not know other modern
                    > > > > > countries
                    > > > > > are much different. I have spent a good deal of time in Mexico and
                    > > > > > it
                    > > > > > is
                    > > > > > still wild and lawless. Various police entities roam the streets
                    > > > > > with
                    > > > > > automatic weapons. many of them are drunk and I am afraid of them as
                    > > > > > the
                    > > > > > drug lords. I never hear of American nut jobs going to Canada to
                    > > > > > shoot
                    > > > > > people. Our big bloody mass murders are outnumbered by domestic
                    > > > > > shootings
                    > > > > > which get little press. Ma shoots Pa ,Pa shoots Ma.
                    > > > > > We have made great strides in traffic fatalities. Drunk driving is
                    > > > > > down
                    > > > > > and
                    > > > > > the cars are better,safer.In general we are less violent and the
                    > > > > > presentation of Americans as gun toting maniacs is just not true.
                    > > > > > Lindsey
                    > > > > > Graham,Rep senator from South Carolina, admitted on camera he owns
                    > > > > > an
                    > > > > > AR15.
                    > > > > > He was somewhat sheepish about it and had lost the old southern
                    > > > > > bravado
                    > > > > > about guns. I predict that US will become more like Canada, more
                    > > > > > socially
                    > > > > > inclined ,less violent and less warlike. As cold as it sounds we had
                    > > > > > to
                    > > > > > have
                    > > > > > the oil to survive and the wretched oil wars bought us time. Now we
                    > > > > > must
                    > > > > > deal with fracking but that is minor compaired to hot war. I think
                    > > > > > it
                    > > > > > is
                    > > > > > getting better and wish I had another century to enjoy it. I retire
                    > > > > > at
                    > > > > > the
                    > > > > > end of the month and am looking forward to life outside of work. I`m
                    > > > > > worn
                    > > > > > out but think I can get back in shape and live a few years more. I
                    > > > > > dug
                    > > > > > out
                    > > > > > my cross country boards and will try to get Priscilla to ski with
                    > > > > > me.
                    > > > > > I am
                    > > > > > becomming a house husband and
                    > > > > > am trying to slow down and not be so manic. I am only starting to
                    > > > > > see
                    > > > > > how
                    > > > > > rushed and stressed my life was. I`ve said goodby to most of the
                    > > > > > patients
                    > > > > > and transfered the records to a great younger dentist. The eyes and
                    > > > > > hands
                    > > > > > were becomming less effective and it is time to get out.
                    > > > > > So I approach this New Year with more hope than I have ever had. I
                    > > > > > hope
                    > > > > > you
                    > > > > > are well and wish you the best,it is good to have you back. Bill
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > > > From: William
                    > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:35 PM
                    > > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > The obvious problem is that too many people will want to hold
                    > > > > > > > onto
                    > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > "good
                    > > > > > > > times".
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > And then it has to be recognized that the reason why the US is
                    > > > > > > > great, is
                    > > > > > > > because of the cult of individualism. In striving to get your
                    > > > > > > > piece
                    > > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > pie, innovation takes place and creates new money. Is it
                    > > > > > > > possible
                    > > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > > keep
                    > > > > > > > the individualism and yet have a socialist view in relation to
                    > > > > > > > guns.
                    > > > > > > > Obama
                    > > > > > > > had a hard enough time just getting medical care socialized.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > eduardathome
                    > > > > > > > Eduard, not all engage in the cult of individualism. Most just
                    > > > > > > > want
                    > > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > > get
                    > > > > > > > by and lead quiet lives. I think it is your parenting that molds
                    > > > > > > > future
                    > > > > > > > agression and competativeness. Some just have no direction at
                    > > > > > > > all
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > only react without plan. What molds people in Canada? It does
                    > > > > > > > not
                    > > > > > > > seem
                    > > > > > > > particularly religous and for the most part is a simple
                    > > > > > > > bicultural
                    > > > > > > > country. The great diversity here certainly breeds distrust and
                    > > > > > > > fear
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > gun ownership.
                    > > > > > > I must say the country is on fire over this incident. It is bigger
                    > > > > > > than
                    > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > election was and may be creating a new middle. I sense that there
                    > > > > > > will
                    > > > > > > be
                    > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > coalition against gun violence and that will create a new majority
                    > > > > > > politics.
                    > > > > > > It is very early to see where all this sentiment might lead us. I
                    > > > > > > have
                    > > > > > > noticed a strong distaste for what the right wing sees as the
                    > > > > > > predominant
                    > > > > > > mind set of middle america. They missed it at the election and
                    > > > > > > now
                    > > > > > > they
                    > > > > > > are
                    > > > > > > coming acrossed as single issue zealots in regard to this mass
                    > > > > > > murder.
                    > > > > > > Here in the midwest we are stuck inside from the storm and the TV
                    > > > > > > is
                    > > > > > > pounding away with storys of the shooting and all the reactions.
                    > > > > > > I
                    > > > > > > tried
                    > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > go to movies and ended up with a super violent ,Brad Pitt movie
                    > > > > > > about
                    > > > > > > mass
                    > > > > > > murder.
                    > > > > > > So I do not know if innovation and indivuality are linked and I do
                    > > > > > > not
                    > > > > > > know
                    > > > > > > if mass murder is caused by violence in the media. But I do know
                    > > > > > > many
                    > > > > > > are
                    > > > > > > energised and something different is taking shape. Bill
                    > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > > > > From: William
                    > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:26 PM
                    > > > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Re: More shooter info
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Bill,
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Unlike some here, you have a familiarity with firearms and
                    > > > > > > > > aren't
                    > > > > > > > > hysterical or prudish around a gun. And though boasting
                    > > > > > > > > earlier
                    > > > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > > your
                    > > > > > > > > collection of semi-automatics for fun or sport, you're now
                    > > > > > > > > open
                    > > > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > > > disarming yourself and the rest of the country. I've no use
                    > > > > > > > > for
                    > > > > > > > > toys
                    > > > > > > > > or
                    > > > > > > > > hunting, and believe that public safety trumps recreation for
                    > > > > > > > > these
                    > > > > > > > > type
                    > > > > > > > > guns. And unlike Colonial times, the current gulf between
                    > > > > > > > > civilian
                    > > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > > military weapons technology is such that there can be no
                    > > > > > > > > reasonable
                    > > > > > > > > claim
                    > > > > > > > > for a weapon to offset some hypothetical Leviathan state. But
                    > > > > > > > > there
                    > > > > > > > > remains a valid and constitutionally protected interest in
                    > > > > > > > > owning
                    > > > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > > > gun
                    > > > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > > some type for self-defense. The predatory Other and recurring
                    > > > > > > > > emergencies
                    > > > > > > > > will always be with us. Yet zealots on either side often allow
                    > > > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > > no
                    > > > > > > > > distinction between the comparative utility (public and
                    > > > > > > > > private)
                    > > > > > > > > of,
                    > > > > > > > > say,
                    > > > > > > > > the revolver as opposed to the semi-automatic assault weapon.
                    > > > > > > > > It's
                    > > > > > > > > not,
                    > > > > > > > > nor will be, all or nothing. Or to paraphrase Justice Oliver
                    > > > > > > > > Wendell
                    > > > > > > > Holmes, the life of the law is not logic, but experience.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Irvin
                    > > > > > > > > Irvin, I have known guns all my life and until this vile
                    > > > > > > > > happening
                    > > > > > > > > felt
                    > > > > > > > > more safe with them than without them. I will keep
                    > > > > > > > some for self protection but as sporting endeavours I am
                    > > > > > > > finished
                    > > > > > > > with
                    > > > > > > > weapons. I will try to think of it as an evolution toward a
                    > > > > > > > better
                    > > > > > > > mode
                    > > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > being. I will remember the good times associated with shooting.
                    > > > > > > > I relate a spring morning when I had gotten up very early and
                    > > > > > > > driven to
                    > > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > > range deep in the country. I was alone and the sun was beaming
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > new
                    > > > > > > > grass was nearly florescent. The shock of gun reports can
                    > > > > > > > shock
                    > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > senses
                    > > > > > > > into a heightened state. It was as if I could ride the round
                    > > > > > > > into
                    > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > target and I was shooting tight groups. I felt I could corkscrew
                    > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > round
                    > > > > > > > right into the 10 ring. Along with it came a feeling of
                    > > > > > > > power,almost
                    > > > > > > > omnipotance, and I was alive as I had ever been.
                    > > > > > > > I do not think we will get rid of weapons and we may only be
                    > > > > > > > able
                    > > > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > > lessen
                    > > > > > > > the violence. I sense the greater progress will come from
                    > > > > > > > keeping
                    > > > > > > > weapons
                    > > > > > > > out of the hands of the mentally ill. So many are easily
                    > > > > > > > identified
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > they simply should not have access to weapons. They also should
                    > > > > > > > not
                    > > > > > > > be
                    > > > > > > > taught to shoot.
                    > > > > > > > I remember a unit competition in the Army. We were shooting in
                    > > > > > > > four
                    > > > > > > > man
                    > > > > > > > teams against an infantry company. We were a medical unit but
                    > > > > > > > our
                    > > > > > > > four
                    > > > > > > > members were all very good shots. We were shooting for a case of
                    > > > > > > > boose
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > bragging rights on the base. We were hot and just tore them up.
                    > > > > > > > Many
                    > > > > > > > years
                    > > > > > > > later I met one of the team at a deserted range. He was an MD
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > > life
                    > > > > > > > long shooter. We traded weapons and fired everything in our
                    > > > > > > > cars.
                    > > > > > > > It
                    > > > > > > > was
                    > > > > > > > pure joy to be with an old team member pouring rounds down
                    > > > > > > > range.
                    > > > > > > > We
                    > > > > > > > were
                    > > > > > > > shooting big bore revolvers and shot until our hands bled.
                    > > > > > > > Believe me Irval it can be addicting but I am finished. As you
                    > > > > > > > say
                    > > > > > > > there
                    > > > > > > > are
                    > > > > > > > more important things than good times. I will just put the guns
                    > > > > > > > away
                    > > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > remember the good times. Bill
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
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                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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