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Re: Is Suicide absurd? According to Camus, it is...

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  • Mary
    Bryan, Just a few responses to your comments. According to Camus, suicide is not absurd; it doesn t follow the logic of the absurd which is to endure the
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 10, 2012
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      Bryan,

      Just a few responses to your comments.

      According to Camus, suicide is not absurd; it doesn't follow the logic of the absurd which is to endure the absurd.

      He didn't claim to be an existentialist but saw the ultimate and radical freedom of a suicide as existentialism's philosophical failure.

      I agree that Camus preferred rebellion to suicide, because it chooses an absurd life over an ideological death. I think we also agree that suicide is a social failure.

      I do disagree however that Buddhism is anything like the absurd because it promotes the abolition of desire and the acknowledgment that all is illusion; that we become happy or satisfied when we no longer strive, destroy our will, and submit to nothing. Camus' philosophy of the absurd is opposed to these. One's passions are not denied by oneself; the world does that but we don't submit. Otherwise, why rebel? I agree with Zizek's interpretation that all is illusion, but that it's our only reality; that the nothing of Buddhism is not Hegel's nothing. Hegel's nothing coexists with being but not as denial. Buddhism is non-duality; Hegel's idealism and Camus' absurd have more in common. They recognize difference in unity, neither the balance nor the merging of opposites. The tension of opposites is Camus' philosophy; endurance is not a resolution, endurance is absurd. With Hegel, tension itself is what moves the dialectic between truth as remembered and truth as anticipated.

      Finally, Hegel's 'aufhebung' is far more complex than you presented. It primarily means 'sublation' a subject still under debate among scholars and life-long students. It refers to what happens to knowing, when the shape of a truth changes. It is preserved as well as changes, which is not strictly overcoming. As I previously suggested to Jim, the master-slave dialectic is figurative and symbolizes what occurs as knowing moves upon itself.

      Regards,
      Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Junius" <bryan.junius@...> wrote:
      >
      > Mary,
      >
      > My view of Camus's philosophy of the absurd was not stunning when I started reading his writings from 'The Rebel' or 'The Stranger' back in 1987. He only made a a new interpretive analysis of existentialism - as pointed out by his his critiques against the works of Jaspers, Husserl, or Heidegger who jumped to conclusions in the idea of rationality and reasoning - sometimes going into the abstract arguments of God being the only answer - as something to The otherness of self.
      >
      > Simply stating Camus - we don't commit suicide, we revolt!
      >
      > As far as the Myth of Sisyphus - his metaphors of tragic greek heroes such as Sisyphus, Oedipus, Atlas, Perseus, etc, being content in meaningless tasks, and stating that we must see Sisyphus as being happy in his tasks was no different than teachings in Zen-Buddhism 500 years earlier. 'Mind is one mind', 'one mind is no mind'...
      >
      > ....hence, like Hegel's dialectic in the Master-Slave relationship, it is why the slave will always take control over the master - the chores to the slave that are his/her own to do are intangible and metaphysical over time - seeking contentment in the everyday meaningless things we are given. And coming to aufhebung (overcoming). However, in the end, we all become masters of our destiny, if we can will it to happen.
      >
      > In my earlier posts my statement was just as succint as Albert Camus's belief in Man and his freedom of passion.
      >
      > "I don't have to fight to live."
      >
      > best regards,
      >
      > Bryan
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Bryan,
      > >
      > > You have to do better than a Wikipedia entry :) What do you think of Camus' philosophy of the absurd? What do you think of his blanket condemnation of suicide? His second wife, the mother of his children, was suicidal; she couldn't cope with all his romantic affairs. His first wife was a morphine addict. His disapproval was no doubt related to these personal situations. Camus also condemned suicide as a nihilistic statement about life, as a protest if you will. Did you read his version of the Myth of Sisyphus? Do you think we should continue to roll that stone up the mountain, that we should be grateful for that opportunity?
      > >
      > > Mary
      > >
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Junius" <bryan.junius@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Bill, Mary
      > > >
      > > > Since we were on such a topic - I thought I would throw Camus into the picture and cite his 'Le'Mythe summarization below:
      > > >
      > > > In Le Mythe, Camus suggests that 'creation of meaning', would entail a logical leap or a kind of philosophical suicide in order to find psychological comfort. But Camus wants to know if he can live with what logic and lucidity has uncovered – if one can build a foundation on what one knows and nothing more. Creation of meaning is not a viable alternative but a logical leap and an evasion of the problem. He gives examples of how others would seem to make this kind of leap. The alternative option, namely suicide, would entail another kind of leap, where one attempts to kill absurdity by destroying one of its terms (the human being). Camus points out, however, that there is no more meaning in death than there is in life, and that it simply evades the problem yet again. Camus concludes, that we must instead 'entertain' both death and the absurd, while never agreeing to their terms.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > regards,
      > > >
      > > > Bryan Junius
      > > >
      > >
      >
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