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Re: Personal issues

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  • bhvwd
    ... Obama knows this old game all too well and would like to see it busted up. He sees the opportunity with American energy independance a real possibility and
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 28, 2012
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > This is a nightmare scenario and I'm conflicted. When Israel took out Saddam's nuclear program, he simply began all over in even more earnest. If this happens again in this even more volatile time in the region, another prolonged war might begin. Anti-proliferation has been part of our government's official policy but we couldn't stop North Korea either. Israel's concerns that Iran wants to obliterate them is taken both literally and figuratively. I can't possibly know if they'd nuke Israel who certainly don't want to find out too late. President Obama and Netanyahu are pushing each other with the former hoping the Election precedes the later's itchy trigger finger. I'm guessing Bebe wants Romney to win.
      >
      > Mary
      > Mary,I agree that Bebe would like the status of the special relationship with Israel bolstered under a Romney administration. Our MIC really likes to sell arms to those in the region. Our ongoing sales to both Saudi and Israel mean we arm both sides and all of this discord always drives up oil prices. The region lives on oil and they play the adversary game to keep those prices up. As you say the nightmare come in when the nukes come out.
      Obama knows this old game all too well and would like to see it busted up. He sees the opportunity with American energy independance a real possibility and refuses to be trapped by bebe and the right wing religios.
      I understand that a good portion of Israelies find little trouble with their Arab neighbors and are sick of this ongoing sabre rattling. I know Obama is working this back channel and just stalling bebe. Bush was too stupid to handle bebe and Obama is too smart to fool with him. I doubt bebe has the horse power to start a war before our election. He has played his scare card and Obama ignored him. Our right screams foul but they are screaming about so many things no one pays much attention.
      The early voting here in Iowa is ten to one Democratic. and in one of the really intense house races King and Vilsac are dead even . No one gave her a chance a few weeks ago. The Democrats are playing a tight ,well diciplined game which is most unlike them. I see Obamas white house running things top down while the scattered republican camps are mucking up among themselves. Bebe can vent his spleen on the phone and Obama may be a bit more candid in private. Bill
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
      >
      > > Mary, Priscilla thinks US has no business telling Iran it should not have a bomb. Netanyaho just gave a hard speach at the UN demanding Iran be stopped and demanding US join Israel in condemnation of Iran. I am having a hard time resolving this. I know Israel has bombs, a moussad operative told me they have better than two hundred. In those small mideastern countries they play an accentuated game of Mutual Assured Destruction. Your bomb might kill your own people from fallout or even radiation and blast. I listened to the Iranian president and from his point of view he is rational. The Jewish primier wants us to believe that the Iranians are irrational and cannot be trusted in the nuclear club. Bill Clinton says he does not trust Iran on the nuclear matter. So what should we think?
      > > I think Obama is taking the best tact. He is avoiding the Jewish prime minister and proceeding with sanctions against Iran.That supports nonproliferation and does not tie us to joining in another war in the mid east.
      > > Priscilla says let Iran have its bomb as they will certainly not survive a nuclesr exchange.
      > > It could be said US has been bullied by Israel as we had to have the oil. That is changing and the many Israeli positions we have supported may not be in our present better interest.The right, allied with oil can say we have a biblical responsibility to judeo christian interests. I have no alliance with christians or jews and oil is being found here. The balance of terror is changing and all the prior politics may have to be recalculated. Bill
      > >
      >
    • Mary
      Bill, In addition to uncertainty about Iran s threats against Israel, I m conflicted in general about the status of the Jewish state vs. the Jewish people.
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 28, 2012
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        Bill,

        In addition to uncertainty about Iran's threats against Israel, I'm conflicted in general about the status of the Jewish state vs. the Jewish people. Because they are a diaspora I'm sensitive their history of suffering; because there is also a mandated state, I feel there needs to be more effort toward peace with their neighbors. But this burden falls equally on neighboring states. It seems a shame that after sixty years since Israel's statehood, Western sentiment is turning against them for their persecution of Palestinians. If Christian fundamentalists have their way, they'll work to fulfill Bible prophecy: Israel will stand isolated, an international receivership for Israel's sovereignty (which they call The Beast) will ensue, and an apocalyptic war will take place. I've often laughed at this unlikely merging of fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Jews. Christians waiting for Messiah's second return and those Jews waiting for his first appearance. Fundamentalist Muslims want to destroy both of them! We can't let any of this happen.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <vize9938@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Bill,
        > >
        > > This is a nightmare scenario and I'm conflicted. When Israel took out Saddam's nuclear program, he simply began all over in even more earnest. If this happens again in this even more volatile time in the region, another prolonged war might begin. Anti-proliferation has been part of our government's official policy but we couldn't stop North Korea either. Israel's concerns that Iran wants to obliterate them is taken both literally and figuratively. I can't possibly know if they'd nuke Israel who certainly don't want to find out too late. President Obama and Netanyahu are pushing each other with the former hoping the Election precedes the later's itchy trigger finger. I'm guessing Bebe wants Romney to win.
        > >
        > > Mary
        > > Mary,I agree that Bebe would like the status of the special relationship with Israel bolstered under a Romney administration. Our MIC really likes to sell arms to those in the region. Our ongoing sales to both Saudi and Israel mean we arm both sides and all of this discord always drives up oil prices. The region lives on oil and they play the adversary game to keep those prices up. As you say the nightmare come in when the nukes come out.
        > Obama knows this old game all too well and would like to see it busted up. He sees the opportunity with American energy independance a real possibility and refuses to be trapped by bebe and the right wing religios.
        > I understand that a good portion of Israelies find little trouble with their Arab neighbors and are sick of this ongoing sabre rattling. I know Obama is working this back channel and just stalling bebe. Bush was too stupid to handle bebe and Obama is too smart to fool with him. I doubt bebe has the horse power to start a war before our election. He has played his scare card and Obama ignored him. Our right screams foul but they are screaming about so many things no one pays much attention.
        > The early voting here in Iowa is ten to one Democratic. and in one of the really intense house races King and Vilsac are dead even . No one gave her a chance a few weeks ago. The Democrats are playing a tight ,well diciplined game which is most unlike them. I see Obamas white house running things top down while the scattered republican camps are mucking up among themselves. Bebe can vent his spleen on the phone and Obama may be a bit more candid in private. Bill
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > Mary, Priscilla thinks US has no business telling Iran it should not have a bomb. Netanyaho just gave a hard speach at the UN demanding Iran be stopped and demanding US join Israel in condemnation of Iran. I am having a hard time resolving this. I know Israel has bombs, a moussad operative told me they have better than two hundred. In those small mideastern countries they play an accentuated game of Mutual Assured Destruction. Your bomb might kill your own people from fallout or even radiation and blast. I listened to the Iranian president and from his point of view he is rational. The Jewish primier wants us to believe that the Iranians are irrational and cannot be trusted in the nuclear club. Bill Clinton says he does not trust Iran on the nuclear matter. So what should we think?
        > > > I think Obama is taking the best tact. He is avoiding the Jewish prime minister and proceeding with sanctions against Iran.That supports nonproliferation and does not tie us to joining in another war in the mid east.
        > > > Priscilla says let Iran have its bomb as they will certainly not survive a nuclesr exchange.
        > > > It could be said US has been bullied by Israel as we had to have the oil. That is changing and the many Israeli positions we have supported may not be in our present better interest.The right, allied with oil can say we have a biblical responsibility to judeo christian interests. I have no alliance with christians or jews and oil is being found here. The balance of terror is changing and all the prior politics may have to be recalculated. Bill
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Bryan Junius
        Iran seems to be demonstrating a stand-you-ground , new-world-order proliferation to the Israelis - with Netenyahu stoking the fire with the U.S. General
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 28, 2012
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          Iran seems to be demonstrating a "stand-you-ground", new-world-order proliferation to the Israelis - with Netenyahu stoking the fire with the U.S. General assembly and asking Obama succintly direct as to what would cause Washington to intervene. Of course Obama did not answer the question in any fashion, other than he agreed that Nuclear Arms in Iran must be addressed and will be - and of course, not at the expense of his own re-election, which I'm glad he did. So if the imperative does speak for itself and Netenyahu acts irrationally, he may try to go for the pre-emptive strike on Tehran so they can't complete their process of producing more enriched plutonium to build their nukes. On the other side, fingers are being pointed at Israel for never divulging their current capacity for nuclear capability since the late 70's and wants the IAEA to investigate those claims; and of course Netenyahu is just claiming Tehran is creating a diversion of what the true threat really is.

          The dillemma of either case is not very attractive. And the dillemma now between Japan, China, and Korea over sovereignty of their outer islands off the coast is making some intense headway.

          I may not be a religious freak, but I do know when I see disaster on the rise.


          regards,

          Bryan

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bill,
          >
          > In addition to uncertainty about Iran's threats against Israel, I'm conflicted in general about the status of the Jewish state vs. the Jewish people. Because they are a diaspora I'm sensitive their history of suffering; because there is also a mandated state, I feel there needs to be more effort toward peace with their neighbors. But this burden falls equally on neighboring states. It seems a shame that after sixty years since Israel's statehood, Western sentiment is turning against them for their persecution of Palestinians. If Christian fundamentalists have their way, they'll work to fulfill Bible prophecy: Israel will stand isolated, an international receivership for Israel's sovereignty (which they call The Beast) will ensue, and an apocalyptic war will take place. I've often laughed at this unlikely merging of fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Jews. Christians waiting for Messiah's second return and those Jews waiting for his first appearance. Fundamentalist Muslims want to destroy both of them! We can't let any of this happen.
          >
          > Mary
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "bhvwd" <vize9938@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Bill,
          > > >
          > > > This is a nightmare scenario and I'm conflicted. When Israel took out Saddam's nuclear program, he simply began all over in even more earnest. If this happens again in this even more volatile time in the region, another prolonged war might begin. Anti-proliferation has been part of our government's official policy but we couldn't stop North Korea either. Israel's concerns that Iran wants to obliterate them is taken both literally and figuratively. I can't possibly know if they'd nuke Israel who certainly don't want to find out too late. President Obama and Netanyahu are pushing each other with the former hoping the Election precedes the later's itchy trigger finger. I'm guessing Bebe wants Romney to win.
          > > >
          > > > Mary
          > > > Mary,I agree that Bebe would like the status of the special relationship with Israel bolstered under a Romney administration. Our MIC really likes to sell arms to those in the region. Our ongoing sales to both Saudi and Israel mean we arm both sides and all of this discord always drives up oil prices. The region lives on oil and they play the adversary game to keep those prices up. As you say the nightmare come in when the nukes come out.
          > > Obama knows this old game all too well and would like to see it busted up. He sees the opportunity with American energy independance a real possibility and refuses to be trapped by bebe and the right wing religios.
          > > I understand that a good portion of Israelies find little trouble with their Arab neighbors and are sick of this ongoing sabre rattling. I know Obama is working this back channel and just stalling bebe. Bush was too stupid to handle bebe and Obama is too smart to fool with him. I doubt bebe has the horse power to start a war before our election. He has played his scare card and Obama ignored him. Our right screams foul but they are screaming about so many things no one pays much attention.
          > > The early voting here in Iowa is ten to one Democratic. and in one of the really intense house races King and Vilsac are dead even . No one gave her a chance a few weeks ago. The Democrats are playing a tight ,well diciplined game which is most unlike them. I see Obamas white house running things top down while the scattered republican camps are mucking up among themselves. Bebe can vent his spleen on the phone and Obama may be a bit more candid in private. Bill
          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Mary, Priscilla thinks US has no business telling Iran it should not have a bomb. Netanyaho just gave a hard speach at the UN demanding Iran be stopped and demanding US join Israel in condemnation of Iran. I am having a hard time resolving this. I know Israel has bombs, a moussad operative told me they have better than two hundred. In those small mideastern countries they play an accentuated game of Mutual Assured Destruction. Your bomb might kill your own people from fallout or even radiation and blast. I listened to the Iranian president and from his point of view he is rational. The Jewish primier wants us to believe that the Iranians are irrational and cannot be trusted in the nuclear club. Bill Clinton says he does not trust Iran on the nuclear matter. So what should we think?
          > > > > I think Obama is taking the best tact. He is avoiding the Jewish prime minister and proceeding with sanctions against Iran.That supports nonproliferation and does not tie us to joining in another war in the mid east.
          > > > > Priscilla says let Iran have its bomb as they will certainly not survive a nuclesr exchange.
          > > > > It could be said US has been bullied by Israel as we had to have the oil. That is changing and the many Israeli positions we have supported may not be in our present better interest.The right, allied with oil can say we have a biblical responsibility to judeo christian interests. I have no alliance with christians or jews and oil is being found here. The balance of terror is changing and all the prior politics may have to be recalculated. Bill
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
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