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Re: [existlist] Sartres stubin

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  • felix manos peregrino
    On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:53 PM, William wrote: [felix] ... [Grimm] ... ********* My idea of The spark of creativity may seem odd to some. It doesn t have much to
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8 1:49 PM
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      On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:53 PM, William wrote:

      [felix]
      > Wouldn't such a skill for accomplishment need to be associated with one's subjectively held goals rather than those of an employer or teacher or paying customer in order to provide themselves with the incentive to attempt to manifest something out of nothing? Is it possible that there are some people who don't bother to make the hero's journey in order to discover the benzene ring in an imaginary ouroboros they brought back in their memory pouch from the dreamtime?
      >
      > I find myself concerned with becoming. Many times I obnoxiously hyphenate to spell it be-co-me-ing while remembering that "co" indicates "with". Presently, I'm acting like there is a somethingness like a triune brain acting up, or more likely the results of having a triune brain. Perhaps like the Mills Brothers song about "my echo, my shadow, and me". I love doppelgangers and dark mystery, but mostly I like the "me" part of the lyrics. That's what I call myself in the first person singular. Me. Currently, because there is no option to projection, I am is the only me I can speak of, but I fancy there is more to me than myself in the first person singular. There is also your me, and all that may imply. I really suspect there is only one universal me, and each one of us foolishly think we're it.

      [Grimm]
      > felix, your middle paragraph asks an unusual question that seems to relate to the origin of creativity.In our many concussions with strange and aberrant types the >neuroscientist comes back into focus for me. The spark of creativity has fascinated many and it is a part of brain productivity that is not captured or rarely controlled. I would like you to extrapolate on your use of a triune brain. I have heard of the right and left sided brain but triune escapes me. Grimm
      >

      *********

      My idea of "The spark of creativity" may seem odd to some. It doesn't have much to do with the brain. It makes an aspect of itself into the various forms of life as an exercise in imitation and mimicry similar to the metaphor of Pinocchio or GBS's Pygmalion, but no matter what it does, it can't become human.

      Here is a Wikipedia article on the triune brain:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain

      ^^
      felix



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William
      ... Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment.
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 8 2:29 PM
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:53 PM, William wrote:
        >
        > [felix]
        > > Wouldn't such a skill for accomplishment need to be associated with one's subjectively held goals rather than those of an employer or teacher or paying customer in order to provide themselves with the incentive to attempt to manifest something out of nothing? Is it possible that there are some people who don't bother to make the hero's journey in order to discover the benzene ring in an imaginary ouroboros they brought back in their memory pouch from the dreamtime?
        > >
        > > I find myself concerned with becoming. Many times I obnoxiously hyphenate to spell it be-co-me-ing while remembering that "co" indicates "with". Presently, I'm acting like there is a somethingness like a triune brain acting up, or more likely the results of having a triune brain. Perhaps like the Mills Brothers song about "my echo, my shadow, and me". I love doppelgangers and dark mystery, but mostly I like the "me" part of the lyrics. That's what I call myself in the first person singular. Me. Currently, because there is no option to projection, I am is the only me I can speak of, but I fancy there is more to me than myself in the first person singular. There is also your me, and all that may imply. I really suspect there is only one universal me, and each one of us foolishly think we're it.
        >
        > [Grimm]
        > > felix, your middle paragraph asks an unusual question that seems to relate to the origin of creativity.In our many concussions with strange and aberrant types the >neuroscientist comes back into focus for me. The spark of creativity has fascinated many and it is a part of brain productivity that is not captured or rarely controlled. I would like you to extrapolate on your use of a triune brain. I have heard of the right and left sided brain but triune escapes me. Grimm
        > >
        >
        > *********
        >
        > My idea of "The spark of creativity" may seem odd to some. It doesn't have much to do with the brain. It makes an aspect of itself into the various forms of life as an exercise in imitation and mimicry similar to the metaphor of Pinocchio or GBS's Pygmalion, but no matter what it does, it can't become human.
        >
        > Here is a Wikipedia article on the triune brain:
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain
        >
        > ^^
        > felix
        >felix, thank you for the reference. It is an interesting theory and illustrates the endless march of science as theories are built examined and discarded. Such progressions illustrate the wedding of science to modernism. Science learns and our modernism progresses into some new avenue of perspective.
        Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment. Telling the dancer from the dance or the professor from the gutter snipe he tutors are more than temporal accidents. I really see no way around sequential time and so one event must be before or after another. If they are contemporary they are not equil and are religated to metaphysics if considered the same.
        Neuro studies in their many forms pick up bits of knowledge and putting them togeather into grand theories will take a very long time. That could be considered the ultimate goal in knowing one`s self. I think it impossible as the bucket and its contents are fundamentally different stuff. Grimm
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • felix manos peregrino
        ... Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment.
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 8 3:47 PM
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          On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:29 PM, William wrote:

          >felix, thank you for the reference. It is an interesting theory and illustrates the endless march of science as theories are built examined and discarded. Such progressions illustrate the wedding of science to modernism. Science learns and our modernism progresses into some new avenue of perspective.
          Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment. Telling the dancer from the dance or the professor from the gutter snipe he tutors are more than temporal accidents. I really see no way around sequential time and so one event must be before or after another. If they are contemporary they are not equil and are religated to metaphysics if considered the same.
          Neuro studies in their many forms pick up bits of knowledge and putting them togeather into grand theories will take a very long time. That could be considered the ultimate goal in knowing one`s self. I think it impossible as the bucket and its contents are fundamentally different stuff. Grimm


          *************

          Hi Grimm,

          I am is not an academian. I know academians in a subjective way. Both my parents were teachers who brought their work home with them. Education is supposed to prepare people for life. Not live life for them. To rebel I became a bum and later a skilled laborer and pretended I was on a spiritual quest. The most important aspect of my sojourn was about remembering stuff that happened to that "spark of life" since a very long time ago. It took decades for me to grok the meaning of my esoteric experiences, but the end game was for me to learn to contemplate my own life instead of Einstein's.

          The Nomad

          Some say the nomad is mad,
          but they don't understand,
          that a nomad must travel
          at the madman's command.
          The command is delivered
          in a demoniacal rage.
          Provoked by the issue
          that the nomad is a sage,
          and sagacious he must be
          just to be on the run,
          for the nomad and the madman
          are the very same One.

          fmp, 1970

          ^^
          felix



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • William
          ... felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 8 6:56 PM
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            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:29 PM, William wrote:
            >
            > >felix, thank you for the reference. It is an interesting theory and illustrates the endless march of science as theories are built examined and discarded. Such progressions illustrate the wedding of science to modernism. Science learns and our modernism progresses into some new avenue of perspective.
            > Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment. Telling the dancer from the dance or the professor from the gutter snipe he tutors are more than temporal accidents. I really see no way around sequential time and so one event must be before or after another. If they are contemporary they are not equil and are religated to metaphysics if considered the same.
            > Neuro studies in their many forms pick up bits of knowledge and putting them togeather into grand theories will take a very long time. That could be considered the ultimate goal in knowing one`s self. I think it impossible as the bucket and its contents are fundamentally different stuff. Grimm
            >
            >
            > *************
            >
            > Hi Grimm,
            >
            > I am is not an academian. I know academians in a subjective way. Both my parents were teachers who brought their work home with them. Education is supposed to prepare people for life. Not live life for them. To rebel I became a bum and later a skilled laborer and pretended I was on a spiritual quest. The most important aspect of my sojourn was about remembering stuff that happened to that "spark of life" since a very long time ago. It took decades for me to grok the meaning of my esoteric experiences, but the end game was for me to learn to contemplate my own life instead of Einstein's.
            >
            > The Nomad
            >
            > Some say the nomad is mad,
            > but they don't understand,
            > that a nomad must travel
            > at the madman's command.
            > The command is delivered
            > in a demoniacal rage.
            > Provoked by the issue
            > that the nomad is a sage,
            > and sagacious he must be
            > just to be on the run,
            > for the nomad and the madman
            > are the very same One.
            >
            > fmp, 1970
            >
            > ^^
            > felix
            felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to submit in place. Both are strong candidates for the existential leap. The bad part is when you make your leap and nothing happens. The confusion and loss of ego leave many in stasis for years. I was lucky after 18 years of religous bondage circumstance set me free and as a free man I became invincible to those who fostered my oppression. I did not count them anymore and they had no idea why. I have had good fortune finding expressions for my rebellion. High risk sports, mountain climbing and Ice hockey and downhill skiing. Neitche said "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" and that hard mantra worked for me. I do not push existentialism , it is dangerous and only those who are wary in mind should attempt it.
            The management on this site has no way of monitoring the effects of existential schism. I warn candidates to beware and know you are playing with your life, your sanity. Now this is less important today because modernist thinking has eroded the old wall of faith. Many have learned to work without a rope and think it normal. I doubt Neitche thought it normal. I have not hidden my modernism but I have never advertised. I stand for it here but this is a small forum acessable to only searchers, nomads. Grimm
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • felix manos peregrino
            On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:56 PM, William wrote: felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 8 7:43 PM
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              On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:56 PM, William wrote:

              felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to submit in place. Both are strong candidates for the existential leap. The bad part is when you make your leap and nothing happens. The confusion and loss of ego leave many in stasis for years. I was lucky after 18 years of religous bondage circumstance set me free and as a free man I became invincible to those who fostered my oppression. I did not count them anymore and they had no idea why. I have had good fortune finding expressions for my rebellion. High risk sports, mountain climbing and Ice hockey and downhill skiing. Neitche said "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" and that hard mantra worked for me. I do not push existentialism , it is dangerous and only those who are wary in mind should attempt it.
              The management on this site has no way of monitoring the effects of existential schism. I warn candidates to beware and know you are playing with your life, your sanity. Now this is less important today because modernist thinking has eroded the old wall of faith. Many have learned to work without a rope and think it normal. I doubt Neitche thought it normal. I have not hidden my modernism but I have never advertised. I stand for it here but this is a small forum acessable to only searchers, nomads. Grimm
              >


              *************

              The tenure of your post is what I think matters. It's you contemplating what gets sot before you in real time that acts as precedent to deep me-and-thee-ing with significant others. What Einstein or such might have thought upon criticizing your current opinions amounts to zip shit. He took his best shot, and now he's dead. R.I.P.

              Contrarily, when Einstein is quoted to have said that imagination is more important than intelligence, such sentiment leads to the self-same conclusion that each of us have to answer to our own dim-witted foibles. I too, have sinned. The ability or gift required to concentrate for long periods of time in pursuit of the gifts of the world beyond words are wasted on them wot seeks populist answers. No blame. It doesn't matter. Nobody knows.


              ^^
              felix



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William
              ... I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 9 8:18 AM
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                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:56 PM, William wrote:
                >
                > felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to submit in place. Both are strong candidates for the existential leap. The bad part is when you make your leap and nothing happens. The confusion and loss of ego leave many in stasis for years. I was lucky after 18 years of religous bondage circumstance set me free and as a free man I became invincible to those who fostered my oppression. I did not count them anymore and they had no idea why. I have had good fortune finding expressions for my rebellion. High risk sports, mountain climbing and Ice hockey and downhill skiing. Neitche said "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" and that hard mantra worked for me. I do not push existentialism , it is dangerous and only those who are wary in mind should attempt it.
                > The management on this site has no way of monitoring the effects of existential schism. I warn candidates to beware and know you are playing with your life, your sanity. Now this is less important today because modernist thinking has eroded the old wall of faith. Many have learned to work without a rope and think it normal. I doubt Neitche thought it normal. I have not hidden my modernism but I have never advertised. I stand for it here but this is a small forum acessable to only searchers, nomads. Grimm
                > >
                >
                >
                > *************
                >
                > The tenure of your post is what I think matters. It's you contemplating what gets sot before you in real time that acts as precedent to deep me-and-thee-ing with significant others. What Einstein or such might have thought upon criticizing your current opinions amounts to zip shit. He took his best shot, and now he's dead. R.I.P.
                >
                > Contrarily, when Einstein is quoted to have said that imagination is more important than intelligence, such sentiment leads to the self-same conclusion that each of us have to answer to our own dim-witted foibles. I too, have sinned. The ability or gift required to concentrate for long periods of time in pursuit of the gifts of the world beyond words are wasted on them wot seeks populist answers. No blame. It doesn't matter. Nobody knows.
                >
                >
                > ^^
                > felix
                > felix, Uncle Albert was such a star in his field but the press,who were insipid bastards, did not understand whar Albert said about physics and cosmology. They questioned him about theology . He would squirm and say non sequetors while looking the fool. He was not as brave as Neitche but in the end he caused as much damage to the religios.Certainly heliocentric theory put a big hole in church ideas of the real cosmos. I remember reading Hoyle and saw his cosmology was flawed. Wilson finally understood the idea of a galaxy and then Uncle Albert and Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins ripped up the earth centric cosmology and its metaphysical underpinnings.
                I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a patent clerk so chairmanship at university does not guarantee genius. I think cosmology beyond the big bang will center around the hypernova and its super massive black hole. It is my private little theory and I continue to think about it. It`s fun and does not give me a headache like reading Sartre. Grimm
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • felix manos peregrino
                ... I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 9 2:02 PM
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                  On Apr 9, 2012, at 11:18 AM, William wrote:

                  > felix, Uncle Albert was such a star in his field but the press,who were insipid bastards, did not understand whar Albert said about physics and cosmology. They questioned him about theology . He would squirm and say non sequetors while looking the fool. He was not as brave as Neitche but in the end he caused as much damage to the religios.Certainly heliocentric theory put a big hole in church ideas of the real cosmos. I remember reading Hoyle and saw his cosmology was flawed. Wilson finally understood the idea of a galaxy and then Uncle Albert and Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins ripped up the earth centric cosmology and its metaphysical underpinnings.
                  I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a patent clerk so chairmanship at university does not guarantee genius. I think cosmology beyond the big bang will center around the hypernova and its super massive black hole. It is my private little theory and I continue to think about it. It`s fun and does not give me a headache like reading Sartre. Grimm


                  ****************

                  Einstein and I had something in common. In our astrological natal charts we both had the planet Mercury residing in the sixth degree of Aries at the moment of our birth. About as many people understand the implications of that as there were people who understood Einstein's theory of relativity when he first compiled it.

                  I liked reading Sartre's theory about the use of denial for instituting a ground for being outside the cosmic soup. Have you ever seen a bucket full of live crabs all trying to escape simultaneously? It practically explains consciousness as I have come to understand it. ;-)

                  ^^
                  felix



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