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Re: Sartres stubin

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  • William
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 8, 2012
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > On Apr 8, 2012, at 12:24 PM, William wrote:
      >
      > felix, first to the math and logic. I readily understand your distaste for beginning a philosophical adventure with numbers. The german existentialists were highly logical and many were mathemeticians. if you read their cirriculum vitae they were schooled in math, logic, philosophy and science. I think that combination led them to an empiricism that had foundations in math ,logic and expermental science. They knew things outside the theologically captured philosophies. Galleleo and Descartes started a fact based philosophy that ignored faith based solutions . They could prove what they saw as empirical facts and that was a powerful tool. Their philosophies began to exist in real world thinking. Neitche ,with great courage, finally stated the obvious and buried god. Neitche found god and the infinate to be a physical impossibility and many dispise him to this day. He did not want to study fictional concepts but wanted to concentrate on things as they exist. Pure science ecliped philosophy and by the time of Eienstein physics had taken the helm and philosophy was a forgotten weak sister.
      > Now Neitche did not understand a modern cosmology, but his atheism withstood the scientific scrutany while faith based systems were destroyed by the big bang cosmology. I have read and studied cosmology throughout my life and have seen Eiensteins cosmology proved out while the foolishness of faith just breaks down.
      > As to the role of philosophy in this new order I find myself forced to accept a most rudamentary concept of philosophy. I see it as the ideas that prod me to action. That is an extrapolition of the old definition of philosophy as the study of the things a person loves. Now love is much too mystical, hormonal and psychogenic for it to be useful as a pivotal part of an intellectual exploration.
      > Ergo: Existentialism is the modern philosophy that deals with only real things and concepts that can be proven in the empirical world. It`s broad principles and base are historical but its growth is indigenous within the progress of science and technology.
      > Now you seem an artist and certainly I own art and have known many artists. I would leave it to you to put art into the existential framework. As my work life slows down I plan to return to art and music as comfort in my decline. I have made my peace with the facts of existance but it is time to fill the felt need and so I view, write and live in the presance of the beauty I can find. Grimm
      >
      >
      > ************
      >
      > In my jaded, unworthy opinion, math and logic are merely learned skill sets. Like all skills, some people need to acquire them to fulfill their goals, and others, not so numerically inclined, do not. I prefer astrology myself. Maybe, as you mention above, they need certain skills to make what they love more complete and polished, and it's the love they seek to fulfill in themselves rather than the skills they acquire that sets the tone of their ex-is-tense. My youngest brother writes textbooks on math for skilled journeymen in the construction trades. He said he found a niche in the market in between the efforts of many mentors who teach mathematics for the sole purpose of inspiring people to think logically instead of how to build eloquent bridges to nowhere. Different strokes... eh?
      >
      > Wouldn't such a skill for accomplishment need to be associated with one's subjectively held goals rather than those of an employer or teacher or paying customer in order to provide themselves with the incentive to attempt to manifest something out of nothing? Is it possible that there are some people who don't bother to make the hero's journey in order to discover the benzene ring in an imaginary ouroboros they brought back in their memory pouch from the dreamtime?
      >
      > I find myself concerned with becoming. Many times I obnoxiously hyphenate to spell it be-co-me-ing while remembering that "co" indicates "with". Presently, I'm acting like there is a somethingness like a triune brain acting up, or more likely the results of having a triune brain. Perhaps like the Mills Brothers song about "my echo, my shadow, and me". I love doppelgangers and dark mystery, but mostly I like the "me" part of the lyrics. That's what I call myself in the first person singular. Me. Currently, because there is no option to projection, I am is the only me I can speak of, but I fancy there is more to me than myself in the first person singular. There is also your me, and all that may imply. I really suspect there is only one universal me, and each one of us foolishly think we're it.
      >
      > ^^
      > felix
      > felix, your middle paragraph asks an unusual question that seems to relate to the origin of creativity.In our many concussions with strange and aberrant types the neuroscientist comes back into focus for me. The spark of creativity has fascinated many and it is a part of brain productivity that is not captured or rarely controlled. I would like you to extrapolate on your use of a triune brain. I have heard of the right and left sided brain but triune escapes me. Grimm
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • felix manos peregrino
      On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:53 PM, William wrote: [felix] ... [Grimm] ... ********* My idea of The spark of creativity may seem odd to some. It doesn t have much to
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 8, 2012
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        On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:53 PM, William wrote:

        [felix]
        > Wouldn't such a skill for accomplishment need to be associated with one's subjectively held goals rather than those of an employer or teacher or paying customer in order to provide themselves with the incentive to attempt to manifest something out of nothing? Is it possible that there are some people who don't bother to make the hero's journey in order to discover the benzene ring in an imaginary ouroboros they brought back in their memory pouch from the dreamtime?
        >
        > I find myself concerned with becoming. Many times I obnoxiously hyphenate to spell it be-co-me-ing while remembering that "co" indicates "with". Presently, I'm acting like there is a somethingness like a triune brain acting up, or more likely the results of having a triune brain. Perhaps like the Mills Brothers song about "my echo, my shadow, and me". I love doppelgangers and dark mystery, but mostly I like the "me" part of the lyrics. That's what I call myself in the first person singular. Me. Currently, because there is no option to projection, I am is the only me I can speak of, but I fancy there is more to me than myself in the first person singular. There is also your me, and all that may imply. I really suspect there is only one universal me, and each one of us foolishly think we're it.

        [Grimm]
        > felix, your middle paragraph asks an unusual question that seems to relate to the origin of creativity.In our many concussions with strange and aberrant types the >neuroscientist comes back into focus for me. The spark of creativity has fascinated many and it is a part of brain productivity that is not captured or rarely controlled. I would like you to extrapolate on your use of a triune brain. I have heard of the right and left sided brain but triune escapes me. Grimm
        >

        *********

        My idea of "The spark of creativity" may seem odd to some. It doesn't have much to do with the brain. It makes an aspect of itself into the various forms of life as an exercise in imitation and mimicry similar to the metaphor of Pinocchio or GBS's Pygmalion, but no matter what it does, it can't become human.

        Here is a Wikipedia article on the triune brain:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain

        ^^
        felix



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William
        ... Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment.
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 8, 2012
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          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:53 PM, William wrote:
          >
          > [felix]
          > > Wouldn't such a skill for accomplishment need to be associated with one's subjectively held goals rather than those of an employer or teacher or paying customer in order to provide themselves with the incentive to attempt to manifest something out of nothing? Is it possible that there are some people who don't bother to make the hero's journey in order to discover the benzene ring in an imaginary ouroboros they brought back in their memory pouch from the dreamtime?
          > >
          > > I find myself concerned with becoming. Many times I obnoxiously hyphenate to spell it be-co-me-ing while remembering that "co" indicates "with". Presently, I'm acting like there is a somethingness like a triune brain acting up, or more likely the results of having a triune brain. Perhaps like the Mills Brothers song about "my echo, my shadow, and me". I love doppelgangers and dark mystery, but mostly I like the "me" part of the lyrics. That's what I call myself in the first person singular. Me. Currently, because there is no option to projection, I am is the only me I can speak of, but I fancy there is more to me than myself in the first person singular. There is also your me, and all that may imply. I really suspect there is only one universal me, and each one of us foolishly think we're it.
          >
          > [Grimm]
          > > felix, your middle paragraph asks an unusual question that seems to relate to the origin of creativity.In our many concussions with strange and aberrant types the >neuroscientist comes back into focus for me. The spark of creativity has fascinated many and it is a part of brain productivity that is not captured or rarely controlled. I would like you to extrapolate on your use of a triune brain. I have heard of the right and left sided brain but triune escapes me. Grimm
          > >
          >
          > *********
          >
          > My idea of "The spark of creativity" may seem odd to some. It doesn't have much to do with the brain. It makes an aspect of itself into the various forms of life as an exercise in imitation and mimicry similar to the metaphor of Pinocchio or GBS's Pygmalion, but no matter what it does, it can't become human.
          >
          > Here is a Wikipedia article on the triune brain:
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain
          >
          > ^^
          > felix
          >felix, thank you for the reference. It is an interesting theory and illustrates the endless march of science as theories are built examined and discarded. Such progressions illustrate the wedding of science to modernism. Science learns and our modernism progresses into some new avenue of perspective.
          Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment. Telling the dancer from the dance or the professor from the gutter snipe he tutors are more than temporal accidents. I really see no way around sequential time and so one event must be before or after another. If they are contemporary they are not equil and are religated to metaphysics if considered the same.
          Neuro studies in their many forms pick up bits of knowledge and putting them togeather into grand theories will take a very long time. That could be considered the ultimate goal in knowing one`s self. I think it impossible as the bucket and its contents are fundamentally different stuff. Grimm
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • felix manos peregrino
          ... Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment.
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 8, 2012
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            On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:29 PM, William wrote:

            >felix, thank you for the reference. It is an interesting theory and illustrates the endless march of science as theories are built examined and discarded. Such progressions illustrate the wedding of science to modernism. Science learns and our modernism progresses into some new avenue of perspective.
            Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment. Telling the dancer from the dance or the professor from the gutter snipe he tutors are more than temporal accidents. I really see no way around sequential time and so one event must be before or after another. If they are contemporary they are not equil and are religated to metaphysics if considered the same.
            Neuro studies in their many forms pick up bits of knowledge and putting them togeather into grand theories will take a very long time. That could be considered the ultimate goal in knowing one`s self. I think it impossible as the bucket and its contents are fundamentally different stuff. Grimm


            *************

            Hi Grimm,

            I am is not an academian. I know academians in a subjective way. Both my parents were teachers who brought their work home with them. Education is supposed to prepare people for life. Not live life for them. To rebel I became a bum and later a skilled laborer and pretended I was on a spiritual quest. The most important aspect of my sojourn was about remembering stuff that happened to that "spark of life" since a very long time ago. It took decades for me to grok the meaning of my esoteric experiences, but the end game was for me to learn to contemplate my own life instead of Einstein's.

            The Nomad

            Some say the nomad is mad,
            but they don't understand,
            that a nomad must travel
            at the madman's command.
            The command is delivered
            in a demoniacal rage.
            Provoked by the issue
            that the nomad is a sage,
            and sagacious he must be
            just to be on the run,
            for the nomad and the madman
            are the very same One.

            fmp, 1970

            ^^
            felix



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • William
            ... felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 8, 2012
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:29 PM, William wrote:
              >
              > >felix, thank you for the reference. It is an interesting theory and illustrates the endless march of science as theories are built examined and discarded. Such progressions illustrate the wedding of science to modernism. Science learns and our modernism progresses into some new avenue of perspective.
              > Now imitation seems ill related to creativity but with creativitieys origin completely in question imitation may be creativitys greatest compliment. Telling the dancer from the dance or the professor from the gutter snipe he tutors are more than temporal accidents. I really see no way around sequential time and so one event must be before or after another. If they are contemporary they are not equil and are religated to metaphysics if considered the same.
              > Neuro studies in their many forms pick up bits of knowledge and putting them togeather into grand theories will take a very long time. That could be considered the ultimate goal in knowing one`s self. I think it impossible as the bucket and its contents are fundamentally different stuff. Grimm
              >
              >
              > *************
              >
              > Hi Grimm,
              >
              > I am is not an academian. I know academians in a subjective way. Both my parents were teachers who brought their work home with them. Education is supposed to prepare people for life. Not live life for them. To rebel I became a bum and later a skilled laborer and pretended I was on a spiritual quest. The most important aspect of my sojourn was about remembering stuff that happened to that "spark of life" since a very long time ago. It took decades for me to grok the meaning of my esoteric experiences, but the end game was for me to learn to contemplate my own life instead of Einstein's.
              >
              > The Nomad
              >
              > Some say the nomad is mad,
              > but they don't understand,
              > that a nomad must travel
              > at the madman's command.
              > The command is delivered
              > in a demoniacal rage.
              > Provoked by the issue
              > that the nomad is a sage,
              > and sagacious he must be
              > just to be on the run,
              > for the nomad and the madman
              > are the very same One.
              >
              > fmp, 1970
              >
              > ^^
              > felix
              felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to submit in place. Both are strong candidates for the existential leap. The bad part is when you make your leap and nothing happens. The confusion and loss of ego leave many in stasis for years. I was lucky after 18 years of religous bondage circumstance set me free and as a free man I became invincible to those who fostered my oppression. I did not count them anymore and they had no idea why. I have had good fortune finding expressions for my rebellion. High risk sports, mountain climbing and Ice hockey and downhill skiing. Neitche said "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" and that hard mantra worked for me. I do not push existentialism , it is dangerous and only those who are wary in mind should attempt it.
              The management on this site has no way of monitoring the effects of existential schism. I warn candidates to beware and know you are playing with your life, your sanity. Now this is less important today because modernist thinking has eroded the old wall of faith. Many have learned to work without a rope and think it normal. I doubt Neitche thought it normal. I have not hidden my modernism but I have never advertised. I stand for it here but this is a small forum acessable to only searchers, nomads. Grimm
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • felix manos peregrino
              On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:56 PM, William wrote: felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 8, 2012
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                On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:56 PM, William wrote:

                felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to submit in place. Both are strong candidates for the existential leap. The bad part is when you make your leap and nothing happens. The confusion and loss of ego leave many in stasis for years. I was lucky after 18 years of religous bondage circumstance set me free and as a free man I became invincible to those who fostered my oppression. I did not count them anymore and they had no idea why. I have had good fortune finding expressions for my rebellion. High risk sports, mountain climbing and Ice hockey and downhill skiing. Neitche said "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" and that hard mantra worked for me. I do not push existentialism , it is dangerous and only those who are wary in mind should attempt it.
                The management on this site has no way of monitoring the effects of existential schism. I warn candidates to beware and know you are playing with your life, your sanity. Now this is less important today because modernist thinking has eroded the old wall of faith. Many have learned to work without a rope and think it normal. I doubt Neitche thought it normal. I have not hidden my modernism but I have never advertised. I stand for it here but this is a small forum acessable to only searchers, nomads. Grimm
                >


                *************

                The tenure of your post is what I think matters. It's you contemplating what gets sot before you in real time that acts as precedent to deep me-and-thee-ing with significant others. What Einstein or such might have thought upon criticizing your current opinions amounts to zip shit. He took his best shot, and now he's dead. R.I.P.

                Contrarily, when Einstein is quoted to have said that imagination is more important than intelligence, such sentiment leads to the self-same conclusion that each of us have to answer to our own dim-witted foibles. I too, have sinned. The ability or gift required to concentrate for long periods of time in pursuit of the gifts of the world beyond words are wasted on them wot seeks populist answers. No blame. It doesn't matter. Nobody knows.


                ^^
                felix



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • William
                ... I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 9, 2012
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                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, felix manos peregrino <felix.peregrino@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:56 PM, William wrote:
                  >
                  > felix, It is a fight or flight problem for those who refuse to submit. The blade runners have a survival plan while others may just stand and refuse to submit in place. Both are strong candidates for the existential leap. The bad part is when you make your leap and nothing happens. The confusion and loss of ego leave many in stasis for years. I was lucky after 18 years of religous bondage circumstance set me free and as a free man I became invincible to those who fostered my oppression. I did not count them anymore and they had no idea why. I have had good fortune finding expressions for my rebellion. High risk sports, mountain climbing and Ice hockey and downhill skiing. Neitche said "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" and that hard mantra worked for me. I do not push existentialism , it is dangerous and only those who are wary in mind should attempt it.
                  > The management on this site has no way of monitoring the effects of existential schism. I warn candidates to beware and know you are playing with your life, your sanity. Now this is less important today because modernist thinking has eroded the old wall of faith. Many have learned to work without a rope and think it normal. I doubt Neitche thought it normal. I have not hidden my modernism but I have never advertised. I stand for it here but this is a small forum acessable to only searchers, nomads. Grimm
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > *************
                  >
                  > The tenure of your post is what I think matters. It's you contemplating what gets sot before you in real time that acts as precedent to deep me-and-thee-ing with significant others. What Einstein or such might have thought upon criticizing your current opinions amounts to zip shit. He took his best shot, and now he's dead. R.I.P.
                  >
                  > Contrarily, when Einstein is quoted to have said that imagination is more important than intelligence, such sentiment leads to the self-same conclusion that each of us have to answer to our own dim-witted foibles. I too, have sinned. The ability or gift required to concentrate for long periods of time in pursuit of the gifts of the world beyond words are wasted on them wot seeks populist answers. No blame. It doesn't matter. Nobody knows.
                  >
                  >
                  > ^^
                  > felix
                  > felix, Uncle Albert was such a star in his field but the press,who were insipid bastards, did not understand whar Albert said about physics and cosmology. They questioned him about theology . He would squirm and say non sequetors while looking the fool. He was not as brave as Neitche but in the end he caused as much damage to the religios.Certainly heliocentric theory put a big hole in church ideas of the real cosmos. I remember reading Hoyle and saw his cosmology was flawed. Wilson finally understood the idea of a galaxy and then Uncle Albert and Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins ripped up the earth centric cosmology and its metaphysical underpinnings.
                  I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a patent clerk so chairmanship at university does not guarantee genius. I think cosmology beyond the big bang will center around the hypernova and its super massive black hole. It is my private little theory and I continue to think about it. It`s fun and does not give me a headache like reading Sartre. Grimm
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • felix manos peregrino
                  ... I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 9, 2012
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                    On Apr 9, 2012, at 11:18 AM, William wrote:

                    > felix, Uncle Albert was such a star in his field but the press,who were insipid bastards, did not understand whar Albert said about physics and cosmology. They questioned him about theology . He would squirm and say non sequetors while looking the fool. He was not as brave as Neitche but in the end he caused as much damage to the religios.Certainly heliocentric theory put a big hole in church ideas of the real cosmos. I remember reading Hoyle and saw his cosmology was flawed. Wilson finally understood the idea of a galaxy and then Uncle Albert and Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins ripped up the earth centric cosmology and its metaphysical underpinnings.
                    I find theorising quaint but pleasant. I know when I do so I may be playing the fool but I have no responsibility in cosmology. Remember Albert was a patent clerk so chairmanship at university does not guarantee genius. I think cosmology beyond the big bang will center around the hypernova and its super massive black hole. It is my private little theory and I continue to think about it. It`s fun and does not give me a headache like reading Sartre. Grimm


                    ****************

                    Einstein and I had something in common. In our astrological natal charts we both had the planet Mercury residing in the sixth degree of Aries at the moment of our birth. About as many people understand the implications of that as there were people who understood Einstein's theory of relativity when he first compiled it.

                    I liked reading Sartre's theory about the use of denial for instituting a ground for being outside the cosmic soup. Have you ever seen a bucket full of live crabs all trying to escape simultaneously? It practically explains consciousness as I have come to understand it. ;-)

                    ^^
                    felix



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