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Re: Digest Number 122

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  • Randy M. Zeitman
    ... Right...you want to belong on your own terms. Me too. But alas you and I will suffer that route, I do every day, because my expectations also always result
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 4, 2000
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      >> This question has plagued and troubled me for years. Why does a human
      >>being have to belong? Does it make him or her more secure, more loved and
      >>more stable. If you ask me personally I DON'T want to belong, I don't
      >>want to follow norms laid down by others and I also don't want to follow
      >>any religious books where half of what they say does not appeal to my
      >>better senses.

      Right...you want to belong on your own terms. Me too. But alas you and I
      will suffer that route, I do every day, because my expectations also always
      result in my dissatisfaction (to want is to suffer, and one of the things I
      want is integrity).

      Why do people want to belong?...my opinion (and probably not original) is that:

      The nature of existing is defensive (survival). If I exist 'here' and you
      exist 'there' then 'me' is, for loss of a better phrase, a territory I
      defend. When I say "I like cheese" I'm saying 'this is part of the
      constructs, rules, and boundry that defines me'.

      Futhermore these choices are "right" because they're as sincere as I can
      get...'they speak to my essence' in NewAge blabber. As such I constantly
      defend my territory (self) against change (changing is sure hard for most
      folks, ain't it?...why give up who we know ourselves to be for an
      unknown!...that's survival!).

      This is why the 'surrender' concept is so important in transformational
      pursuits be they religious, 12-step programs, psychology, etc, because the
      skill of transformation (reinvention, whatever word/phrase you want to use)
      is the act of willingly giving up who you know yourself to be and that
      takes trust which is why I carry a little business card in my wallet since
      '97 which says "trust".

      Oh, I got a little off track. The reason we want to belong is because it
      validates who we are (that not only do I think the choices I've made are
      right, others do as well therefore I must be REALLY right!) and it also
      speaks to what is an 'existential fact'...that seeking agreement
      (belonging) validates what we think.

      Signature......
      Is this the millennium we find life out there? Help find out!...
      http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
    • Jesus Christ
      just because the majority believe something, doesn t make it the truth. knowledge, in essence, is merely a belief that is held by the majority. so TO THEM,
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 4, 2000
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        just because the majority believe something, doesn't make it the truth. knowledge, in essence, is merely a belief that is held by the majority. so TO THEM, it IS the truth. to the minority, something else may be true. in regard to your statement about objective facts. objective facts are, in fact, not objective. they are subjective because all you can know about them is what is perceived about it. the true essence of something is unattainable and therefore might as well not exist.

        --- Rajiv Pande <existlist@onelist.com> wrote:
        >Part: 1
        ><pre>Dear JC,
        >The Universe does not run on human beliefs, but this is my belief so everything
        >is back to square one again.
        >Excuse me, but can I talk at all?
        >Regards
        >Rajiv
        >PS How about this: Belief gravitates towards absolute knowledge with increasing
        >excitement. Just so that excitement does not tend to infinity (since knowledge
        >is unattainable), and thence to insanity, we have a system of "packaged
        >certainties" called facts in which to seal off all that excess excitement
        >that bubbles over, and from a point of safety, call them objective facts.
        >Thus as we continue our gravitation we accumulate more and more facts, in
        >a absolutely excitement proof data bank and mankind progresses happily and
        >sanely ever after in pursuit of knowledge.
        >I have doubts about mankind's sanity, though - maybe some of the excitement
        >is not fully controlled???
        ></pre>Part: 2
        ><p>Attached File: Unnamed
        ><a href="attachments/folder=INBOX&uid=9703057&pn=2/Unnamed">Download <img src="/cs/43/24/00/2443/c/images/attach.gif" border="0"></a></p>

        ==
        I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

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