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Re: A force for truth

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  • William
    ... Jim, your fears for my civil liberties can be laid to rest. Obama and the congress did not suspend Habeas Corpus as you predicted. The huge
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 1, 2012
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Philosophers are in the business of getting at the truth and, some of them at least, are also in the business of trying to change the world for the better through their writings.
      >
      > Whilst existentialists are a particular sub-group amongst philosophers, they also aim at both truth and change.
      >
      > As Bill correctly states, the majority of contributors to Existlist in recent years pursue these twin aims of philosophers with honesty and integrity.
      >
      > Progress towards the truth, and clarity how change for the better can be achieved, are best pursued in a spirit of good-will and cooperation. Further I think these aims can best be achieved by concentrating on the ideas discussed, rather than on the individuals who put forward the ideas.
      >
      > Whilst individuals, no doubt, post for various reasons, some noble and some ignoble, I think to delve into personal motives is a distraction and serves little or no useful purpose.
      >
      > The current regular contributors to Existlist are a small bunch – just a handful. Fresh faces mean fresh ideas and the chance for new insights. I would rather judge a new face by the quality of their posts here on Existlist, rather than what they may or may not write elsewhere, or where they come from, or how they live their lives.
      >
      > Jim
      >
      Jim, your fears for my civil liberties can be laid to rest. Obama and the congress did not suspend Habeas Corpus as you predicted. The huge appropriations bill ,mostly defense spending, was revised and signed. Also the President ,who has been accused of appeasement by the republicans has forced the Iranians back to the table to discuss sanctions and enrichment. The Mullahs have stopped the sabre rattling on the gulf of Hormuz . Is there anything else that is of immediate concern to your leftist sensibilities?
      You were absent from the dust up over identities and now that the heavy lifting is done I hope you can figure out who is who.
      Since you yearn for ideas and discount identity would you like to comment on the outcome of the above mentioned topics as you not only missed who is who but on what you said. Your siding up to Iran shows a wrong sided blindness that puts you in the Chamberland camp. Does the identity of the Republican Guard matter to you? Have you been appraised of the big oil finds in the gulf of Mexico? Oil is not going away but more robust wind turbins are being developed at the U of Iowa. Progress is being made on so many fronts and you might comment on one or many of these topics. You need not sign your post , I would not want to either if my track record was as dismal as yours. Bill
    • Jim
      Bill, I was not aware that the Levin/McCain Detention Bill was going to be dropped or watered down, but if so that is good news for freedom in general and US
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 1, 2012
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        Bill,

        I was not aware that the Levin/McCain Detention Bill was going to be dropped or watered down, but if so that is good news for freedom in general and US citizens in particular.

        I followed the posts on identities at Existlist. It seems you were suggesting that Tim Pendry was Dick Richardson. However these are clearly different individuals in my opinion. Dick is an old man with a liking for mysticism and pagan and eastern ideas. Tim is a younger person, much better read, and interested in recent developments in technological and cultural thinking. Their only similarity, in my view, is their promise to leave Existlist, but not yet.

        With regard to the threat from Iran, your latest post suggests you think the threat has subsided to some extent. Your Chamberlain remark suggests you see Iran as big a threat today as Hitler's Germany was in the late 1930's. I don't see the similarity myself. I see a need for the UK to have a small standing army in case of attack to our islands, however I don't support imperialism, so I would not want the UK to get involved in foreign escapades.

        I favour the move to renewable energy sources, and efforts to cut our energy consumption, so we do not depend on the import of oil from abroad.

        It is good news if oil reserves are being found in Mexico, but I would prefer all of us to cut our energy usage as part of a move towards sustainable living where the earth's resources are not being "used up", but recycled to create an equilibrium, for the benefit of future generations.

        Jim
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        I confess that I, too, had had such an inking. There is a common tone there. But, yes, it soon appeared that I had been wrong. Wil ... From: Jim
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 1, 2012
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          I confess that I, too, had had such an inking. There is a common tone there. But, yes, it soon appeared that I had been wrong.

          Wil





          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jim <jjimstuart1@...>
          To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Jan 1, 2012 1:22 pm
          Subject: [existlist] Re: A force for truth





          Bill,

          I was not aware that the Levin/McCain Detention Bill was going to be dropped or watered down, but if so that is good news for freedom in general and US citizens in particular.

          I followed the posts on identities at Existlist. It seems you were suggesting that Tim Pendry was Dick Richardson. However these are clearly different individuals in my opinion. Dick is an old man with a liking for mysticism and pagan and eastern ideas. Tim is a younger person, much better read, and interested in recent developments in technological and cultural thinking. Their only similarity, in my view, is their promise to leave Existlist, but not yet.

          With regard to the threat from Iran, your latest post suggests you think the threat has subsided to some extent. Your Chamberlain remark suggests you see Iran as big a threat today as Hitler's Germany was in the late 1930's. I don't see the similarity myself. I see a need for the UK to have a small standing army in case of attack to our islands, however I don't support imperialism, so I would not want the UK to get involved in foreign escapades.

          I favour the move to renewable energy sources, and efforts to cut our energy consumption, so we do not depend on the import of oil from abroad.

          It is good news if oil reserves are being found in Mexico, but I would prefer all of us to cut our energy usage as part of a move towards sustainable living where the earth's resources are not being "used up", but recycled to create an equilibrium, for the benefit of future generations.

          Jim









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irvhal
          I must note that the appropriation bill indeed passed with provisions for detention of American citizens without formal charge or trial. And while the
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 1, 2012
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            I must note that the appropriation bill indeed passed with provisions for detention of American citizens without formal charge or trial. And while the president, following his predecessor's treatment of rogue legislation, signed it into law with an accompanying "reservation," this provides no real restraint binding this president or his successors. For a concise summary see aclu.org.

            Irvin

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Philosophers are in the business of getting at the truth and, some of them at least, are also in the business of trying to change the world for the better through their writings.
            > >
            > > Whilst existentialists are a particular sub-group amongst philosophers, they also aim at both truth and change.
            > >
            > > As Bill correctly states, the majority of contributors to Existlist in recent years pursue these twin aims of philosophers with honesty and integrity.
            > >
            > > Progress towards the truth, and clarity how change for the better can be achieved, are best pursued in a spirit of good-will and cooperation. Further I think these aims can best be achieved by concentrating on the ideas discussed, rather than on the individuals who put forward the ideas.
            > >
            > > Whilst individuals, no doubt, post for various reasons, some noble and some ignoble, I think to delve into personal motives is a distraction and serves little or no useful purpose.
            > >
            > > The current regular contributors to Existlist are a small bunch – just a handful. Fresh faces mean fresh ideas and the chance for new insights. I would rather judge a new face by the quality of their posts here on Existlist, rather than what they may or may not write elsewhere, or where they come from, or how they live their lives.
            > >
            > > Jim
            > >
            > Jim, your fears for my civil liberties can be laid to rest. Obama and the congress did not suspend Habeas Corpus as you predicted. The huge appropriations bill ,mostly defense spending, was revised and signed. Also the President ,who has been accused of appeasement by the republicans has forced the Iranians back to the table to discuss sanctions and enrichment. The Mullahs have stopped the sabre rattling on the gulf of Hormuz . Is there anything else that is of immediate concern to your leftist sensibilities?
            > You were absent from the dust up over identities and now that the heavy lifting is done I hope you can figure out who is who.
            > Since you yearn for ideas and discount identity would you like to comment on the outcome of the above mentioned topics as you not only missed who is who but on what you said. Your siding up to Iran shows a wrong sided blindness that puts you in the Chamberland camp. Does the identity of the Republican Guard matter to you? Have you been appraised of the big oil finds in the gulf of Mexico? Oil is not going away but more robust wind turbins are being developed at the U of Iowa. Progress is being made on so many fronts and you might comment on one or many of these topics. You need not sign your post , I would not want to either if my track record was as dismal as yours. Bill
            >
          • William
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 1, 2012
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              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
              >
              > I must note that the appropriation bill indeed passed with provisions for detention of American citizens without formal charge or trial. And while the president, following his predecessor's treatment of rogue legislation, signed it into law with an accompanying "reservation," this provides no real restraint binding this president or his successors. For a concise summary see aclu.org.
              >
              > Irvin
              > Irvin, I found the ACLU summary inconcise and highly political. I mesn what do you think the ACLU is going to say. During an Obama administration the ruling will be looked over by administration officials but in subsequent administrations that need not be the case. It is all tied in with the patroit act and Guantanamo Bay and Bush era legalisms. If you do not like that part of the bill don`t caqll your legislator as that part is all over. If it is challenged it will be in SCOTUS. Hopefully it will never come up. Bill
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Philosophers are in the business of getting at the truth and, some of them at least, are also in the business of trying to change the world for the better through their writings.
              > > >
              > > > Whilst existentialists are a particular sub-group amongst philosophers, they also aim at both truth and change.
              > > >
              > > > As Bill correctly states, the majority of contributors to Existlist in recent years pursue these twin aims of philosophers with honesty and integrity.
              > > >
              > > > Progress towards the truth, and clarity how change for the better can be achieved, are best pursued in a spirit of good-will and cooperation. Further I think these aims can best be achieved by concentrating on the ideas discussed, rather than on the individuals who put forward the ideas.
              > > >
              > > > Whilst individuals, no doubt, post for various reasons, some noble and some ignoble, I think to delve into personal motives is a distraction and serves little or no useful purpose.
              > > >
              > > > The current regular contributors to Existlist are a small bunch – just a handful. Fresh faces mean fresh ideas and the chance for new insights. I would rather judge a new face by the quality of their posts here on Existlist, rather than what they may or may not write elsewhere, or where they come from, or how they live their lives.
              > > >
              > > > Jim
              > > >
              > > Jim, your fears for my civil liberties can be laid to rest. Obama and the congress did not suspend Habeas Corpus as you predicted. The huge appropriations bill ,mostly defense spending, was revised and signed. Also the President ,who has been accused of appeasement by the republicans has forced the Iranians back to the table to discuss sanctions and enrichment. The Mullahs have stopped the sabre rattling on the gulf of Hormuz . Is there anything else that is of immediate concern to your leftist sensibilities?
              > > You were absent from the dust up over identities and now that the heavy lifting is done I hope you can figure out who is who.
              > > Since you yearn for ideas and discount identity would you like to comment on the outcome of the above mentioned topics as you not only missed who is who but on what you said. Your siding up to Iran shows a wrong sided blindness that puts you in the Chamberland camp. Does the identity of the Republican Guard matter to you? Have you been appraised of the big oil finds in the gulf of Mexico? Oil is not going away but more robust wind turbins are being developed at the U of Iowa. Progress is being made on so many fronts and you might comment on one or many of these topics. You need not sign your post , I would not want to either if my track record was as dismal as yours. Bill
              > >
              >
            • Jim
              Mary, Yes, I agree with you that truth is not a straightforward notion, and that it appears somewhere amongst reading `between the lines and `in your face .
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 1, 2012
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                Mary,

                Yes, I agree with you that truth is not a straightforward notion, and that "it appears somewhere amongst reading `between the lines' and `in your face'."

                I am going to read Zizek's "The Sublime Object of Ideology" next. I am hoping to better understand what he takes as true in the writings of Lacan.

                Jim



                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jim,
                >
                > Under the influence of "You-Know-Who," I'm beginning to think truth is both slipperier and more concrete than commonly understood. That's not to say truth is subjective or relative, only that it appears somewhere amongst reading `between the lines' and `in your face'. By shifting our gaze from one to another perspective of essentially the `same' difference, we experience a `gap' within reality.
                >
                > An individual perspective opens the possibility of experiencing the universal but does not guarantee it. Those who most fight against change already know its inevitability; those who most insist on their truth know there is a frightening lack of it. If together we shift our perspective to see things differently, half-truths appear whole. Gaps in the void make freedom and truth uncontrollably possible.
                >
                > Mary
                >
              • Mary
                Jim, This from the forward to The Parallax View of his Short Circuit series briefly explains his critical technique. . . A short circuit occurs when there is
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 2, 2012
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                  Jim,

                  This from the forward to "The Parallax View" of his Short Circuit series briefly explains his critical technique. . .

                  A short circuit occurs when there is a wrong connection in the network—wrong, of course, from the standpoint of the smooth functioning of the network. Is therefore the shock of short circuiting not one of the best metaphors for a critical reading? Is not one of the most efficient critical procedures to cross wires that don't usually touch—to take a major classic (text, author, notion) and read it in a short circuiting way, through the lenses of a "minor" author, text, or conceptual apparatus ("minor" in the sense of marginalized, disavowed by the hegemonic ideology, dealing with a "lower," less dignified topic)? The starting premise of this series is that Lacanian psychoanalysis is a privileged instrument of such an approach. This, then, is not a new series of books on psychoanalysis, but a series of "connections of the Freudian field"—of short Lacanian interventions into art, philosophy, theology, and ideology." —Slavoj Žižek

                  "The Sublime Object of Ideology" left me with a completely different perspective of Reason and appreciation of Hegel's Absolute. I look forward to your comments which will restore some philosophical content to our existlist community. In the meantime, my own reading and attempt at learning a second language (yet to be determined) keeps my brain active and agile during my seasonal hibernation.

                  Mary

                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mary,
                  >
                  > Yes, I agree with you that truth is not a straightforward notion, and that "it appears somewhere amongst reading `between the lines' and `in your face'."
                  >
                  > I am going to read Zizek's "The Sublime Object of Ideology" next. I am hoping to better understand what he takes as true in the writings of Lacan.
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jim,
                  > >
                  > > Under the influence of "You-Know-Who," I'm beginning to think truth is both slipperier and more concrete than commonly understood. That's not to say truth is subjective or relative, only that it appears somewhere amongst reading `between the lines' and `in your face'. By shifting our gaze from one to another perspective of essentially the `same' difference, we experience a `gap' within reality.
                  > >
                  > > An individual perspective opens the possibility of experiencing the universal but does not guarantee it. Those who most fight against change already know its inevitability; those who most insist on their truth know there is a frightening lack of it. If together we shift our perspective to see things differently, half-truths appear whole. Gaps in the void make freedom and truth uncontrollably possible.
                  > >
                  > > Mary
                  > >
                  >
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