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Re: Failed philosophies

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  • William
    Message 1 of 35 , Dec 30, 2011
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > If because of Bill's background, he has 'insider' information about a crumbling Anglo-American alliance, this is very troubling. That the Pentagon, Administration, and the American public are at odds is nothing new. I understand that Brits feel betrayed about the WMD debacle, just as many Americans do. Bill mentioned the film about the Joe Wilson-Valerie Plame/Scooter Libby dust up recently, but this seems contradictory to his usual saber rattling. If it was a pretext for geopolitical positioning, what did it matter? I'm still confused as to whether Bill wants us to secure the oil supply without a military presence or simply end U.S. involvement in the Middle East. I do wonder, though, if the influx of Muslim Arabs into Europe will lessen their military zeal in that troubled region. I never realized the U.S. and G.B. were competitors for Saudi favor, so I was somewhat shocked when WikiLeaks revealed a royal saying Americans were ignorant of geography in the region. I also thought BG had it's own air force. What gives?!?
      >
      > Mary
      > Mary, The alliance is not crumbling the countries are seeing separate paths. The US is unlikely to commit to more conventional land war in the middle east. We will try to move Iran off its nuclear ambition before Israel blasts them off it. Israel has promised they will strike and Iran intends to respond. US is pushing the issue and demands Iran stop enrichment. Iran responds by threatning closing the straights. Now it is brinksmanship but Israel has survival needs which they will meet. It would appear Saudi will build a very robust air presence in the area. It would seem sanctions and a defacto no fly zone will attempt to strangle Iran. Iran will make the entire area a hot bed of insurrection and revolution. That is why the US will withdraw from the area and use its new found domestic reserves. Since there is no land army capable of defeating Iran , Europe and GB must decide if they accept the neverending instability or build a coalition force to topple Tehran. I think China which gets much of its oil from Iran will allow the nuclear threat to be stopped but will oppose any change of state in Iran. So a long stalemate looms with europe on the losing end of the oil and security situations. The US is building the answer to our energy future and will no longer lead attempts to control Iran or radical Islam. Gb and europe become very vulnerable . So Jim needs to see the position europe is facing and a British Prime Minister like Chamberlin is the last thing you need. Face Iran down or be plagued by them. A coalition with Saudi,Israel and NATO could win but it is already too close to armageddon because of the Iranian nuclear threat. GB becomes the natural leader in this because of their prior experience in the region and their high level participation in NATO.As I said US will provide the weapons but now europe and GB need fight for themselves. So our national interests diverge and the divergance moves his country away from Jims leftist ideals. Bill
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Bill,
      > > >
      > > > A few years ago Tony Blair told the British people that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction which could reach British targets in 45 minutes. Many gullible politicians and media folk believed him, and we went to war with Iraq. No WMDs were ever found in Iraq, and the intelligence reports were found to be make-believe.
      > > >
      > > > Britain had nothing to fear from Iraq in 2003 and today we have nothing to fear from Iran. Iran has no reason to attack the UK, just as the UK has no reason to attack Iran.
      > > >
      > > > You describe my worldview as childish. I would describe your worldview as a mixture of paranoia and control freakery. You want to "control" the whole world, and see threats everywhere. You better check there aren't any reds under the bed before you settle down for the night. Better keep a shotgun under your pillow.
      > > >
      > > > Jim
      > > >Jim, sorry a sawed off wont fit under a pillow,besides its illegal. Your ignorance of weapons is a part of your childlike world view.When you realise the terrorists are for real ,when you realise islam is an aggressive philosophy ruled by fanatics, when you listen to the madness Adminajad preaches you might begin to try to defend yourself and your country.
      > > You fail to address that europe is under the gun from muslim pressure but you rely on USA to defend you. Please realise we are withdrawing from the region. With new oil sources we do not need europes vile neighbors and you can defend yourselves from them.
      > > Remember lend /lease? We will be happy to sell you the arms but you have to put the boots on the ground. You say you do not want US all over the world as policeman, neither do a great many of us. You want it both ways,we defend you and you spend your monies on fun and frolic. So buy some B2`s and we will teach you to fly them. Buy a division of Abrams so you might put down a total rebellion in Iran. Draft some of your cheeky countrymen and teach them to shoot. Arm your boomer and try to get the other two back in the water to preserve your great maritime tradition. Have a great new year. Bill
      > >
      >
    • William
      Message 35 of 35 , Dec 30, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
        >
        > If because of Bill's background, he has 'insider' information about a crumbling Anglo-American alliance, this is very troubling. That the Pentagon, Administration, and the American public are at odds is nothing new. I understand that Brits feel betrayed about the WMD debacle, just as many Americans do. Bill mentioned the film about the Joe Wilson-Valerie Plame/Scooter Libby dust up recently, but this seems contradictory to his usual saber rattling. If it was a pretext for geopolitical positioning, what did it matter? I'm still confused as to whether Bill wants us to secure the oil supply without a military presence or simply end U.S. involvement in the Middle East. I do wonder, though, if the influx of Muslim Arabs into Europe will lessen their military zeal in that troubled region. I never realized the U.S. and G.B. were competitors for Saudi favor, so I was somewhat shocked when WikiLeaks revealed a royal saying Americans were ignorant of geography in the region. I also thought BG had it's own air force. What gives?!?
        >
        > Mary
        > Mary, The alliance is not crumbling the countries are seeing separate paths. The US is unlikely to commit to more conventional land war in the middle east. We will try to move Iran off its nuclear ambition before Israel blasts them off it. Israel has promised they will strike and Iran intends to respond. US is pushing the issue and demands Iran stop enrichment. Iran responds by threatning closing the straights. Now it is brinksmanship but Israel has survival needs which they will meet. It would appear Saudi will build a very robust air presence in the area. It would seem sanctions and a defacto no fly zone will attempt to strangle Iran. Iran will make the entire area a hot bed of insurrection and revolution. That is why the US will withdraw from the area and use its new found domestic reserves. Since there is no land army capable of defeating Iran , Europe and GB must decide if they accept the neverending instability or build a coalition force to topple Tehran. I think China which gets much of its oil from Iran will allow the nuclear threat to be stopped but will oppose any change of state in Iran. So a long stalemate looms with europe on the losing end of the oil and security situations. The US is building the answer to our energy future and will no longer lead attempts to control Iran or radical Islam. Gb and europe become very vulnerable . So Jim needs to see the position europe is facing and a British Prime Minister like Chamberlin is the last thing you need. Face Iran down or be plagued by them. A coalition with Saudi,Israel and NATO could win but it is already too close to armageddon because of the Iranian nuclear threat. GB becomes the natural leader in this because of their prior experience in the region and their high level participation in NATO.As I said US will provide the weapons but now europe and GB need fight for themselves. So our national interests diverge and the divergance moves his country away from Jims leftist ideals. Bill
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Bill,
        > > >
        > > > A few years ago Tony Blair told the British people that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction which could reach British targets in 45 minutes. Many gullible politicians and media folk believed him, and we went to war with Iraq. No WMDs were ever found in Iraq, and the intelligence reports were found to be make-believe.
        > > >
        > > > Britain had nothing to fear from Iraq in 2003 and today we have nothing to fear from Iran. Iran has no reason to attack the UK, just as the UK has no reason to attack Iran.
        > > >
        > > > You describe my worldview as childish. I would describe your worldview as a mixture of paranoia and control freakery. You want to "control" the whole world, and see threats everywhere. You better check there aren't any reds under the bed before you settle down for the night. Better keep a shotgun under your pillow.
        > > >
        > > > Jim
        > > >Jim, sorry a sawed off wont fit under a pillow,besides its illegal. Your ignorance of weapons is a part of your childlike world view.When you realise the terrorists are for real ,when you realise islam is an aggressive philosophy ruled by fanatics, when you listen to the madness Adminajad preaches you might begin to try to defend yourself and your country.
        > > You fail to address that europe is under the gun from muslim pressure but you rely on USA to defend you. Please realise we are withdrawing from the region. With new oil sources we do not need europes vile neighbors and you can defend yourselves from them.
        > > Remember lend /lease? We will be happy to sell you the arms but you have to put the boots on the ground. You say you do not want US all over the world as policeman, neither do a great many of us. You want it both ways,we defend you and you spend your monies on fun and frolic. So buy some B2`s and we will teach you to fly them. Buy a division of Abrams so you might put down a total rebellion in Iran. Draft some of your cheeky countrymen and teach them to shoot. Arm your boomer and try to get the other two back in the water to preserve your great maritime tradition. Have a great new year. Bill
        > >
        >
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