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RE: Digest Number 122

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  • Rajiv Pande
    Dear Gretchyn Nice to have you back ... and environment but I have always been aware of another who guides me in what to assimilate from that and what not -
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 4, 2000
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      Dear Gretchyn
      Nice to have you back
      >Yes it's true that one is shaped by instruction
      and environment but I have always been aware of another who guides me in
      what to assimilate from that and what not - prior to and apart from any
      known influence to the contrary. I'm talking about since the earliest
      memories and under extreme conditions.<
      Freud limited the Superego to external influence. I don't.
      I believe that there is also an internal influence, in shaping our superego. Often this may dominate, if external influence is weak. However, the superego in general is the origin of self-identity, of a strong pride in oneself. It is the precipitate of all that we have excelled at, the residue of everything we ever did over and above the normal line of duty.
      In my "system" Ego = Intentionality, Superego = Superintentionality
      Whenever conscious intention exceeds a certain limit, there is a change of drive, and one shoots into the realm of the superego. This is what happens in the artist when he gets deeply involved in his work - he loses a sense of time and his thoughts accelerate to the speed of light. I call this the "Temporal drive".
      Regards
      Rajiv


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    • Rajiv Pande
      Hello or should I say respected[?] Jesus, Yes I do believe that, everything starts with a belief, then it makes a person seek, to go all out to prove his
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 4, 2000
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        Hello or should I say respected[?] Jesus,
        Yes I do believe that, everything starts with a belief, then it makes a person seek, to go all out to prove his belief true. Then comes a time when he actually proves his belief, as simple as two plus two is four. This strong belief changes to knowledge which has a universal appeal and acceptance, it may go down in books and is accepted for generations to come. Sometimes it so happens that the belief converted to knowledge may be very different from reality, is still accepted quite blindly.
        Best wishes
        Vanaja
      • Randy M. Zeitman
        ... Right...you want to belong on your own terms. Me too. But alas you and I will suffer that route, I do every day, because my expectations also always result
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 4, 2000
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          >> This question has plagued and troubled me for years. Why does a human
          >>being have to belong? Does it make him or her more secure, more loved and
          >>more stable. If you ask me personally I DON'T want to belong, I don't
          >>want to follow norms laid down by others and I also don't want to follow
          >>any religious books where half of what they say does not appeal to my
          >>better senses.

          Right...you want to belong on your own terms. Me too. But alas you and I
          will suffer that route, I do every day, because my expectations also always
          result in my dissatisfaction (to want is to suffer, and one of the things I
          want is integrity).

          Why do people want to belong?...my opinion (and probably not original) is that:

          The nature of existing is defensive (survival). If I exist 'here' and you
          exist 'there' then 'me' is, for loss of a better phrase, a territory I
          defend. When I say "I like cheese" I'm saying 'this is part of the
          constructs, rules, and boundry that defines me'.

          Futhermore these choices are "right" because they're as sincere as I can
          get...'they speak to my essence' in NewAge blabber. As such I constantly
          defend my territory (self) against change (changing is sure hard for most
          folks, ain't it?...why give up who we know ourselves to be for an
          unknown!...that's survival!).

          This is why the 'surrender' concept is so important in transformational
          pursuits be they religious, 12-step programs, psychology, etc, because the
          skill of transformation (reinvention, whatever word/phrase you want to use)
          is the act of willingly giving up who you know yourself to be and that
          takes trust which is why I carry a little business card in my wallet since
          '97 which says "trust".

          Oh, I got a little off track. The reason we want to belong is because it
          validates who we are (that not only do I think the choices I've made are
          right, others do as well therefore I must be REALLY right!) and it also
          speaks to what is an 'existential fact'...that seeking agreement
          (belonging) validates what we think.

          Signature......
          Is this the millennium we find life out there? Help find out!...
          http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
        • Jesus Christ
          just because the majority believe something, doesn t make it the truth. knowledge, in essence, is merely a belief that is held by the majority. so TO THEM,
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 4, 2000
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            just because the majority believe something, doesn't make it the truth. knowledge, in essence, is merely a belief that is held by the majority. so TO THEM, it IS the truth. to the minority, something else may be true. in regard to your statement about objective facts. objective facts are, in fact, not objective. they are subjective because all you can know about them is what is perceived about it. the true essence of something is unattainable and therefore might as well not exist.

            --- Rajiv Pande <existlist@onelist.com> wrote:
            >Part: 1
            ><pre>Dear JC,
            >The Universe does not run on human beliefs, but this is my belief so everything
            >is back to square one again.
            >Excuse me, but can I talk at all?
            >Regards
            >Rajiv
            >PS How about this: Belief gravitates towards absolute knowledge with increasing
            >excitement. Just so that excitement does not tend to infinity (since knowledge
            >is unattainable), and thence to insanity, we have a system of "packaged
            >certainties" called facts in which to seal off all that excess excitement
            >that bubbles over, and from a point of safety, call them objective facts.
            >Thus as we continue our gravitation we accumulate more and more facts, in
            >a absolutely excitement proof data bank and mankind progresses happily and
            >sanely ever after in pursuit of knowledge.
            >I have doubts about mankind's sanity, though - maybe some of the excitement
            >is not fully controlled???
            ></pre>Part: 2
            ><p>Attached File: Unnamed
            ><a href="attachments/folder=INBOX&uid=9703057&pn=2/Unnamed">Download <img src="/cs/43/24/00/2443/c/images/attach.gif" border="0"></a></p>

            ==
            I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

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