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Re: Occupy Wall Street

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  • Jim
    Wil, Mary, Class seems a wider category than a purely economic category. The problem in Egypt is that the Military Class still have an absolute grip on
    Message 1 of 34 , Nov 22, 2011
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      Wil, Mary,

      "Class" seems a wider category than a purely economic category.

      The problem in Egypt is that the Military Class still have an absolute grip on power. You could say they are a purely economic class, however they specialize in terror, torture, disappearance, etc. I think military types have a disposition to do these things even if they are not well paid.

      One difference between Egypt and US/UK/Europe is that protesters are being tortured and killed in Egypt. Here the protesters don't suffer much more than cuts and bruises.

      The connection between the Arab Spring and the Occupy movements is that the western Occupy movements have largely been inspired by the Arab protestors, and have copied them. Without the Arab Spring we would not have our Occupy protesters on the streets of our major cities.

      I don't mean to disparage our own Occupy movement. I fully support it and wish it goes from strength to strength, however, I think we should keep in focus the differences as well as the similarities between the various localised protest movements around the world at this historic period in world history.

      Jim



      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > You see, it's not only Gingrich who disparages but the media which relishes portraying the dictators of the Middle East as the problem or their lack of democratic institutions. Now with the Occupy events and the failed Super Committee, the media reluctantly must display how our democratic institutions are failing. What connects all these is economic, because money is power; money is speech; and money can corrupt in as many ways as there are means to allow it. Liberal democratic capitalism is on trial, not Middle Eastern tyrants, who only seem worse than those faceless anonymous financial puppet masters and known lobbyist. As the middle class begins to suffer in ways the poor always have, action finally begins. No housing, no jobs, no respect, discrimination, something few white men have had to endure in this country.
      >
      > Mary
      >
    • eupraxis@aol.com
      Absolutely. This is our new Enlightenment: it isn t just a people matter, too thing, but a fundamental realization that no one merely grist for the mill. ...
      Message 34 of 34 , Nov 23, 2011
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        Absolutely. This is our new Enlightenment: it isn't just a "people matter, too" thing, but a fundamental realization that no one merely grist for the mill.





        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
        To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2011 10:20 am
        Subject: [existlist] Re: Occupy Wall Street





        Wil,

        I agree and find it puzzling that many others who do also pull up short of endorsing organization and movements, as if such were not part of history, and in the case of existentialism, somehow radically opposed to individual personhood. "It was an authentic militant expression, not an appeal to Power for recognition. It was a will-to-power as Active." seems Nietzschean without the fear of being herd like, not selfish but contingent.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
        >
        > Most scholars, and nearly all conservative critics, misunderstand what the Enlightenment was in European history. Thus many scholars repeat the old song that Romanticism was a reaction against the Enlightenment, for example. But this is not the case. It was just part of the latter's development. What the Enlightenment meant was the fundamental realization and subsequent demand that the Person-as-such is a free and equal being because the Person says so. That self-exteriorization meant more than a Spartacan revolt of the spirit, more than a slave revolt.
        >
        > This is what we are witnessing all over the world right now. "What do they want?" Wrong question. It would be like asking a crying newborn what (s)he wanted.
        >
        > Just a thought.
        >
        > Wil
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
        > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2011 9:15 am
        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Occupy Wall Street
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Wil, Mary,
        > >
        > > "Class" seems a wider category than a purely economic category.
        > >
        > > The problem in Egypt is that the Military Class still have an absolute grip on power. You could say they are a purely economic class, however they specialize in terror, torture, disappearance, etc. I think military types have a disposition to do these things even if they are not well paid.
        > >
        >
        > Jim, I'm still not sure how the fact that the military class, which offers the most reliable employment in Egypt isn't purely economic with the proclivity to violence secondary.
        >
        > > One difference between Egypt and US/UK/Europe is that protesters are being tortured and killed in Egypt. Here the protesters don't suffer much more than cuts and bruises.
        > >
        >
        > This is a significant difference, because if things escalate to that level here, change would be more immediate if such happens to white, middle-class protestors.
        >
        > > The connection between the Arab Spring and the Occupy movements is that the western Occupy movements have largely been inspired by the Arab protestors, and have copied them. Without the Arab Spring we would not have our Occupy protesters on the streets of our major cities.
        > >
        >
        > The Middle Eastern demonstrations came between the tuition hike protests in California and the occupation of the state capitol in Wisconsin but that these movements are now occurring simultaneously now can inspire a kind of solidarity even while based in local differences.
        >
        > > I don't mean to disparage our own Occupy movement. I fully support it and wish it goes from strength to strength, however, I think we should keep in focus the differences as well as the similarities between the various localised protest movements around the world at this historic period in world history.
        > >
        >
        > Because the global economy drives the underlying causes of these discontents, it first has to be addressed, but local democratic initiatives seem not to be able to affect it. It remains to be seen if the unrest is itself an event which transforms.
        >
        > Mary
        > > Jim
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > You see, it's not only Gingrich who disparages but the media which relishes portraying the dictators of the Middle East as the problem or their lack of democratic institutions. Now with the Occupy events and the failed Super Committee, the media reluctantly must display how our democratic institutions are failing. What connects all these is economic, because money is power; money is speech; and money can corrupt in as many ways as there are means to allow it. Liberal democratic capitalism is on trial, not Middle Eastern tyrants, who only seem worse than those faceless anonymous financial puppet masters and known lobbyist. As the middle class begins to suffer in ways the poor always have, action finally begins. No housing, no jobs, no respect, discrimination, something few white men have had to endure in this country.
        > > >
        > > > Mary
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >









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