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Re: Existentialism acknowledges soft things too

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  • William
    ... Mary, the brain concussion is beginning to encroach upon the blood sports. I think lawyers will increasingly reduce the acess to boxing and football by
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 20, 2011
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      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
      > > I am suprised you are interested in boxing and ask what you are learning from the study.
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > I was primarily drawn to the film artistry of Michael Mann, Emmanuel Lubezki, and Tom Stern. But there is something very honest in a purely violent yet fair, skillful, and consensual duel, one which is generally not motivated by capricious or cruel domination. As in other sports, an opponent may symbolize forces beyond one's control, and vicariously, spectators feel safe in releasing their own aggression. In this sense I see competitive sports as healthy and not at all gratuitous.
      >
      > I've not followed prize fighters since Roy Jones retired, but remain fascinated by their ability to absorb such intense physical abuse. As a thirteen year old verbally defending my little sister, I was punched in the nose, not hard enough to draw blood, but was surprised by how much it hurt! That anyone chooses such a profession boggles my mind. But of course, the three fighters in these films--one was fictitious--did exactly that, because they were poor and/or African-American. I became interested in Ali during his appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court for Conscientious Objector status during the Vietnam war draft. The result was an 8-0 decision in his favor. However I was then unfamiliar with Rubin Carter's story, one of egregiously direct racism and injustice.
      >
      > All three of these stories exemplify rare courage, and those who supported them had strong character as well. I suppose you were right about viewing some athletes' struggles as an apt metaphor, though not strictly regarding competition. Rather, they risk their lives in pursuit of life itself, and competitive boxing is their vehicle. Their admirers and committed supporters were likewise challenged and rewarded. The woman boxer in Millionaire Dollar Baby asked for assisted suicide from the very men responsible for training and befriending her; the Hurricane was unjustly imprisoned for 20 years but released through the persistence of Canadian activists; and Ali, now suffering with Parkinson's, dedicated his life to also fighting poverty and racism.
      >
      > I'm not sure what you mean by corrupt humanism, but for these fighters, powerfully corrupt individuals and institutions created circumstances which were ameliorated with the help of other individuals who also showed exceptonal courage.
      >
      > Mary
      >
      Mary, the brain concussion is beginning to encroach upon the blood sports. I think lawyers will increasingly reduce the acess to boxing and football by sewing those responsible for the activities. Rydell,which makes football helmets and the NFL are examples of defendants in liability suits. It is difficult to ignore the many serious injuries in boxing and football . The recent suicide of Dave Duerson with his request that his brain be studied after his death is stark as his post mortem showed extensive damage to his brain. If they are banned I would miss the games but cannot justify supporting the most dangerous of sports. Sports in which you hit with your head or are hit in the head should probably be restricted. Yet the big money associated with these exciting spectacles will fight to keep the activities. I doubt there will be total restriction in the immediate future. The risk/reward arguments are impressive from both sides. The NFL has supressed studies from as long ago as 1920 that showed frequent severe brain damage. In the generation before mine it was not rare to see "Punchy" guys that were severly handicapped from boxing but I see them less and less. Skiing and mountaneering still hide the greater number of their casualities but ask ski directors of mountain rangers and you will hear of a great many more injuries and fatalities than are widely reported. Read a lift ticket and see all the rights you sign away with purchase of the ticket. Climbing has remained very difficult to regulate as guarding all the mountains seems impossible. Ask search and rescue how many bodies they retrieve . Many do not show up until the snow melts in the spring.I am over the hill for all of these activities but have numerous aches and pains that act up during cold and damp times. For me the memories are worth the pain but I do not think the young should be pushed into high risk sports. If you are drawn to them then the risks should be explained . For some common sense is lacking and they are often the first to be injured. I wonder where Herman comes down on this as his concept of personal freedom would seem to come into play.Then again there is the issue of memory loss and rage from concussions. Bill
    • Herman
      Hi Bill, ... I agree with your description of boxing and football as being very dangerous pursuits. From memory, since Queensberry rules some 500 boxers have
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 20, 2011
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        Hi Bill,

        On 21 July 2011 04:35, William <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        > >
        > Mary, the brain concussion is beginning to encroach upon the blood sports.
        > I think lawyers will increasingly reduce the acess to boxing and football by
        > sewing those responsible for the activities. Rydell,which makes football
        > helmets and the NFL are examples of defendants in liability suits. It is
        > difficult to ignore the many serious injuries in boxing and football . The
        > recent suicide of Dave Duerson with his request that his brain be studied
        > after his death is stark as his post mortem showed extensive damage to his
        > brain. If they are banned I would miss the games but cannot justify
        > supporting the most dangerous of sports. Sports in which you hit with your
        > head or are hit in the head should probably be restricted. Yet the big money
        > associated with these exciting spectacles will fight to keep the activities.
        > I doubt there will be total restriction in the immediate future. The
        > risk/reward arguments are impressive from both sides. The NFL has supressed
        > studies from as long ago as 1920 that showed frequent severe brain damage.
        > In the generation before mine it was not rare to see "Punchy" guys that were
        > severly handicapped from boxing but I see them less and less. Skiing and
        > mountaneering still hide the greater number of their casualities but ask ski
        > directors of mountain rangers and you will hear of a great many more
        > injuries and fatalities than are widely reported. Read a lift ticket and see
        > all the rights you sign away with purchase of the ticket. Climbing has
        > remained very difficult to regulate as guarding all the mountains seems
        > impossible. Ask search and rescue how many bodies they retrieve . Many do
        > not show up until the snow melts in the spring.I am over the hill for all of
        > these activities but have numerous aches and pains that act up during cold
        > and damp times. For me the memories are worth the pain but I do not think
        > the young should be pushed into high risk sports. If you are drawn to them
        > then the risks should be explained . For some common sense is lacking and
        > they are often the first to be injured. I wonder where Herman comes down on
        > this as his concept of personal freedom would seem to come into play.Then
        > again there is the issue of memory loss and rage from concussions. Bill
        >
        >
        I agree with your description of boxing and football as being very dangerous
        pursuits.

        From memory, since Queensberry rules some 500 boxers have died or become
        permanently disabled shortly after stepping out of the ring the last time.
        Now, I have no problems with anyone's freedom to chose to die, but I doubt
        that anyone of those 500 went into their last bout with that ambition.

        At best, then, we have 500 men who gambled to gain exactly I don't know what
        and instead lost everything, literally. Now, for Mary, this gratuitous
        violent dying is somehow a courageous and skillful pursuit of life, and the
        witnessing of it cathartic. To me, it is perverse.

        Cheers


        Herman


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