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Cruising the high seas

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  • Herman
    Hi all, Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 20, 2011
      Hi all,

      Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of
      us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian people
      for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
      proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not see
      their invariably young families for eight months.

      I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
      already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.

      How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
      the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies present
      themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named for a
      good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
      accustomed to using others as means to an end.

      Cheers

      Herman


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 20, 2011
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of
        > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian people
        > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
        > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not see
        > their invariably young families for eight months.
        >
        > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
        > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
        >
        > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
        > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies present
        > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named for a
        > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
        > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        > Herman
        > Herman, if you were not on board,spending money ,those service workers would be on some beach trying to catch a fish. Just treat them with respect and tip them well. I am sure sometime in the past you or one of your ancestors were scooping shit for low wages. Enjoy your brief royalty, it will end too soon. have a great time,Bill
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Mary
        Herman, Thank you for the heartfelt postcard. If we are unable to affect the necessary changes implied by your lament, I believe it better to live with guilt
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 22, 2011
          Herman,

          Thank you for the heartfelt postcard. If we are unable to affect the necessary changes implied by your lament, I believe it better to live with guilt than to rationalize it away. There's something very wrong with a world wherein the desire for beauty, comfort, and adventure cost others so dearly. Perhaps this absurdity will someday yield a complete passivity which in turn will prepare the way for a true act of change. The tension between aesthetics and ascetics is often unbearable.

          Mary

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of
          > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian people
          > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
          > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not see
          > their invariably young families for eight months.
          >
          > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
          > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
          >
          > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
          > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies present
          > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named for a
          > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
          > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Herman
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • William
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 22, 2011
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
            >
            > Herman,
            >
            > Thank you for the heartfelt postcard. If we are unable to affect the necessary changes implied by your lament, I believe it better to live with guilt than to rationalize it away. There's something very wrong with a world wherein the desire for beauty, comfort, and adventure cost others so dearly. Perhaps this absurdity will someday yield a complete passivity which in turn will prepare the way for a true act of change. The tension between aesthetics and ascetics is often unbearable.
            >
            > Mary
            > We call them cruisers,it is not hard to discern who they are, they are the ones with all their clothes on. They are likly white and fat,fat fat. They seem to be trying to eat themselves to death while they act like a herd not individuals.The locals see them as money,money,money. Most of the cruisers work and spend their hard earned money on a small adventure and a bit of pampering. I think they deserve it and though not the beautiful people they are the workers,the essential people. Sure their aesthetic dream is manufactured by Cruise line executives with Las Vegas view points. So what, they are having a good time and tomorrow they will have sailed away leaving cash,cash,cash. I do not find this wrong, in fact I applaude tourism for many reasons." You gotta go to know", should be a cruise line motto. If you get to know the island people you will be less likely to vote to kill them. Travel is truly educational and I support it. You could just stay home and bitch. Bill
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of
            > > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian people
            > > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
            > > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not see
            > > their invariably young families for eight months.
            > >
            > > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
            > > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
            > >
            > > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
            > > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies present
            > > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named for a
            > > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
            > > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > >
            > > Herman
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • irvhal
            But remember too that in a free market economy, where, to paraphrase Herbert Spencer, the regime of status has been replaced by one of contract, one man s
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 22, 2011
              But remember too that in a free market economy, where, to paraphrase Herbert Spencer, the regime of status has been replaced by one of contract, one man's leisure is another's opportunity.

              Irvin



              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              >
              > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of
              > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian people
              > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
              > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not see
              > their invariably young families for eight months.
              >
              > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
              > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
              >
              > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
              > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies present
              > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named for a
              > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
              > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Herman
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • William
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 22, 2011
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
                >
                > But remember too that in a free market economy, where, to paraphrase Herbert Spencer, the regime of status has been replaced by one of contract, one man's leisure is another's opportunity.
                >
                > Irvin
                > Irvin,I am decimated by what you call contract law.So we give authority from bankers to lawyers. Is that not a hand off between lisards? I really do not announce what is obviouses. I atttempt to mirror youe style which is perceptable. " Keep on sailing sailor" > Bill
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi all,
                > >
                > > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes of
                > > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian people
                > > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
                > > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not see
                > > their invariably young families for eight months.
                > >
                > > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
                > > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
                > >
                > > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
                > > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies present
                > > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named for a
                > > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
                > > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
                > >
                > > Cheers
                > >
                > > Herman
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Mary
                Bill, Posting on the fly here due to my indulgence in summer reading (Hegel, J.M. Coetzee, Richard Louv), local tourism, and family this summer. Found this in
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 24, 2011
                  Bill,

                  Posting on the fly here due to my indulgence in summer reading (Hegel, J.M. Coetzee, Richard Louv), local tourism, and family this summer. Found this in Zizek's "How To Read Lacan", which suggests my current political mode.

                  "Even in much of today's progressive politics, the danger is not passivity, but pseudo-activity, the urge to be active and to participate. People intervene all the time, attempting to "do something," academics participate in meaningless debates; the truly difficult thing is to step back and to withdraw from it. Those in power often prefer even a critical participation to silence - just to engage us in a dialogue, to make it sure that our ominous passivity is broken. Against such an interpassive mode in which we are active all the time to make sure that nothing will really change, the first truly critical step is to withdraw into passivity and to refuse to participate. This first step clears the ground for a true activity, for an act that will effectively change the coordinates of the constellation."

                  Mary
                • William
                  ... Mary, the progression of thought seems a nonsequetor. Why need passivity proceed true activity .I have a tendancy to repeat those things work for me. I
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 24, 2011
                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Bill,
                    >
                    > Posting on the fly here due to my indulgence in summer reading (Hegel, J.M. Coetzee, Richard Louv), local tourism, and family this summer. Found this in Zizek's "How To Read Lacan", which suggests my current political mode.
                    >
                    > "Even in much of today's progressive politics, the danger is not passivity, but pseudo-activity, the urge to be active and to participate. People intervene all the time, attempting to "do something," academics participate in meaningless debates; the truly difficult thing is to step back and to withdraw from it. Those in power often prefer even a critical participation to silence - just to engage us in a dialogue, to make it sure that our ominous passivity is broken. Against such an interpassive mode in which we are active all the time to make sure that nothing will really change, the first truly critical step is to withdraw into passivity and to refuse to participate. This first step clears the ground for a true activity, for an act that will effectively change the coordinates of the constellation."
                    >
                    > Mary
                    >
                    Mary, the progression of thought seems a nonsequetor. Why need passivity proceed "true activity' .I have a tendancy to repeat those things work for me. I have had hugedly rewarding results from traveling. It has often been analygous to opening a new compartment of my mind. For instance; I clibmed from the base to the barren snow top of mano kyia. The ecosystem goes from arctic at the top to tropical at the base. The animals and plants of all those altitudes are there, in strata as definitive as sedentary rock. If you have taken special arctic survival, ecology, geology and comparative anatomy your mind just fillss up with observations that return when needed over the years. Those subjects are interlocked and crossed referenced in the brain and can secrete hormones associated with pleasure.That probably will be banned by the grim faced bible pounders but I can do it without even smiling.
                    I try to control my hormonal self and know some things that work.I find age has buffered hormonal responses. The loss of youth really turns one down. When Barney and Ron Paul can alley for cause I apreciate the power of the mind over brutal hormones. I think not passivity but prior involvement is the spring board to constructive change.
                    I get "What are you going to do when you retire" a lot now and I usually respond "Travel'. Soon I will be in a university town, picking the brains of interesting students. They will say anything for a beer and I always buy.
                    I learned that from a major hollywood star who would buy all the drinks for everybody for a couple of hours. She would get very fucked up and it would be a really great party. ZZ Top showed up at The Jerome and bought two rounds. They had an accountant along with the security and he just wrote a cheque and deducted it as advertising. Now that is the music business doing the party right.
                    So if I can mix business with pleasure I put my order in. Frank and Paul are my new heros and Jim had predicted something like this. Crusing the high seas has its benefits. Bill
                  • irvhal
                    I ve got problems with the canonization of any political school -- progressive , Marxist or otherwise -- as the Truth. Such notion bespeaks an arrogance that
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 26, 2011
                      I've got problems with the canonization of any political school --"progressive", Marxist or otherwise -- as the Truth. Such notion bespeaks an arrogance that broaches a claim of omniscience -- reminding me of Sartre's bottom-up (re)constructioning of the human situation in the "Critique of Dialectical Reason." Political life, like life generally, is experience, not propositions. Or as Heidegger would say, truth is an historical process of unconcealment. Hence the truth revealed by Newton --true in its day and context -- is later supplemented by Heisenberg's quantum mechanics. Such modesty, which acknowledges our epistimic finitude, acknowledges human limitations and fits well with the more realistic proximations of interests embodied in Western parliamentary democracy.

                      Irvin

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Bill,
                      >
                      > Posting on the fly here due to my indulgence in summer reading (Hegel, J.M. Coetzee, Richard Louv), local tourism, and family this summer. Found this in Zizek's "How To Read Lacan", which suggests my current political mode.
                      >
                      > "Even in much of today's progressive politics, the danger is not passivity, but pseudo-activity, the urge to be active and to participate. People intervene all the time, attempting to "do something," academics participate in meaningless debates; the truly difficult thing is to step back and to withdraw from it. Those in power often prefer even a critical participation to silence - just to engage us in a dialogue, to make it sure that our ominous passivity is broken. Against such an interpassive mode in which we are active all the time to make sure that nothing will really change, the first truly critical step is to withdraw into passivity and to refuse to participate. This first step clears the ground for a true activity, for an act that will effectively change the coordinates of the constellation."
                      >
                      > Mary
                      >
                    • Herman
                      Hi Bill, ... You might be right, but I suspect that most of them come from large urban slums, where there is not even an opportunity to fish. ... Thanks for
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 27, 2011
                        Hi Bill,

                        On 21 June 2011 03:28, William <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi all,
                        > >
                        > > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes
                        > of
                        > > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian
                        > people
                        > > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
                        > > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not
                        > see
                        > > their invariably young families for eight months.
                        > >
                        > > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
                        > > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
                        > >
                        > > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
                        > > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies
                        > present
                        > > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named
                        > for a
                        > > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
                        > > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers
                        > >
                        > > Herman
                        > > Herman, if you were not on board,spending money ,those service workers
                        > would be on some beach trying to catch a fish.
                        >


                        You might be right, but I suspect that most of them come from large urban
                        slums, where there is not even an opportunity to fish.


                        > Just treat them with respect and tip them well. I am sure sometime in the
                        > past you or one of your ancestors were scooping shit for low wages. Enjoy
                        > your brief royalty, it will end too soon. have a great time,Bill
                        > >
                        >

                        Thanks for your well wishes. We saw plenty of subsistence living on the
                        smaller islands, and you know, those people seemed genuinely content.
                        Getting your produce from the local markets, from the people who harvested
                        it that morning, has a lot going for it. And catching a fish from the
                        cleanest water imaginable, in order to roast it on a fire and eat it, ain't
                        so bad. Being deprived of the possibility of doing so is.

                        Cheers


                        Herman


                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • William
                        ... Recently I was speaking with a hard core conservative as to why he says Romney will not win. The conservative says it is because the religous base will not
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 28, 2011
                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Bill,
                          >
                          > On 21 June 2011 03:28, William <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi all,
                          > > >
                          > > > Of course cruising the high seas on a ship is only possible for the likes
                          > > of
                          > > > us because there are seas of wafer-thin Filipino, Thai and Indonesian
                          > > people
                          > > > for whom working twelve hour days for $80 per week is an attractive
                          > > > proposition. Never mind that once they get on their ship, they will not
                          > > see
                          > > > their invariably young families for eight months.
                          > > >
                          > > > I put on 3.5 kgs (something like a gallon, only different), while I'm
                          > > > already 20 kgs (five gallons for y'all) over what I need to be.
                          > > >
                          > > > How utterly ridiculous and decadent to be waited on, hand and foot, while
                          > > > the ruins of the imposition of French colonialism on Kanak societies
                          > > present
                          > > > themselves for your viewing pleasure. The Loyalty Islands are so named
                          > > for a
                          > > > good reason, but that will remain an incomprehensible motive for those
                          > > > accustomed to using others as means to an end.
                          > > >
                          > > > Cheers
                          > > >
                          > > > Herman
                          > > > Herman, if you were not on board,spending money ,those service workers
                          > > would be on some beach trying to catch a fish.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > You might be right, but I suspect that most of them come from large urban
                          > slums, where there is not even an opportunity to fish.
                          >
                          >
                          > > Just treat them with respect and tip them well. I am sure sometime in the
                          > > past you or one of your ancestors were scooping shit for low wages. Enjoy
                          > > your brief royalty, it will end too soon. have a great time,Bill
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > Thanks for your well wishes. We saw plenty of subsistence living on the
                          > smaller islands, and you know, those people seemed genuinely content.
                          > Getting your produce from the local markets, from the people who harvested
                          > it that morning, has a lot going for it. And catching a fish from the
                          > cleanest water imaginable, in order to roast it on a fire and eat it, ain't
                          > so bad. Being deprived of the possibility of doing so is.
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          >
                          >
                          > Herman
                          > Herman, It really makes you look at the world with a different perspective. Our early hippies tried to live the simple life but the modern world would have very little of it. The peoples in the carribean have lost that child like euphoria and distrust first world people. I can see how the muslims hate modernism. The scale from primitivism to modernism would seem to fulcrum on some mystic religion such as Islam.I have called it evolution but that may be too definitive a term. We are not ahead of the island people in time, it is the same date for us all. We are not older than them our DNA is the same age. The difference between ourselves and those islanders is the experiences of our ancestors. We make a value judgment about our ancestors and proclaim ourselves superior. It appears our superiority is in arms and the power they impart to their users. Without discernable morals and having almost total power of arms I can see why peoples of prior systems are terrified of modern man. There seem no way back but annihaliation and as yet we have stopped short.
                          Recently I was speaking with a hard core conservative as to why he says Romney will not win. The conservative says it is because the religous base will not accept or trust a mormon. I asked him where he drew the line with a catholic and he said Kennedy was more an american than a papist. The conservative was proud that Kennedy was willing to burn the world rather than give in to communists. If you study the Cuban Missle Crisis you will see how very close we were.
                          So it seems to me we modernists either burn the rock out and let it start over or we dominate the simple cultures and try to force ahead with benign progress. I just read the governments analysis of my probable end point so anything that happens after twenty years just has no effect on me. I suppose the Taliban will still be stoning their women long after I am gone and so I am against degrading my life to change them. Killing them seems even more preposterous. The total nuclear option exists and should be appreciated when proposing policy. Seeing the people and cultures the species has produced can measure how much stress various cultures can tolerate. I think Truman made the right choice at Hiroshima and fanatical cultures should be advised of that salient point of history. Yet the simple joy in those islanders demenor seems we may have hit our high point whan people like that were most numerous. Bill
                          >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • William
                          ... In the US reformation of insurance and banking has been blocked by the right wing house and the people will need to take a realistic look and send those
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jun 29, 2011
                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I've got problems with the canonization of any political school --"progressive", Marxist or otherwise -- as the Truth. Such notion bespeaks an arrogance that broaches a claim of omniscience -- reminding me of Sartre's bottom-up (re)constructioning of the human situation in the "Critique of Dialectical Reason." Political life, like life generally, is experience, not propositions. Or as Heidegger would say, truth is an historical process of unconcealment. Hence the truth revealed by Newton --true in its day and context -- is later supplemented by Heisenberg's quantum mechanics. Such modesty, which acknowledges our epistimic finitude, acknowledges human limitations and fits well with the more realistic proximations of interests embodied in Western parliamentary democracy.
                            >
                            > Irvin
                            > Irvin, I think working politics demand changes in direction. Europe has been democratic socialist for many years. They are lazy and overspent . USA is coming out of a right wing blitz of war and right wing business malphesance. Both nations need redirection but not the same plans. The greeks suffer forty per cent employment of their young. Since we are talking about sailing the high seas sailing the greek islands , visiting the lesser known temples and encouraging Chinese to spend their fortune on educational trips to see one of the first organisations of city states would give the greeks jobs and cash.
                            In the US reformation of insurance and banking has been blocked by the right wing house and the people will need to take a realistic look and send those politicians home and restructure their businesses. Of course we need end the stupid wars and reduce befense spending. The right wing will howl but they are the minority. Thats their job to bring their ideas back when those concepts become relevant. Bill
                            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Bill,
                            > >
                            > > Posting on the fly here due to my indulgence in summer reading (Hegel, J.M. Coetzee, Richard Louv), local tourism, and family this summer. Found this in Zizek's "How To Read Lacan", which suggests my current political mode.
                            > >
                            > > "Even in much of today's progressive politics, the danger is not passivity, but pseudo-activity, the urge to be active and to participate. People intervene all the time, attempting to "do something," academics participate in meaningless debates; the truly difficult thing is to step back and to withdraw from it. Those in power often prefer even a critical participation to silence - just to engage us in a dialogue, to make it sure that our ominous passivity is broken. Against such an interpassive mode in which we are active all the time to make sure that nothing will really change, the first truly critical step is to withdraw into passivity and to refuse to participate. This first step clears the ground for a true activity, for an act that will effectively change the coordinates of the constellation."
                            > >
                            > > Mary
                            > >
                            >
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