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Re: [existlist] Re: conspiracy nuts and holacaust

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  • tom
    Bill Very interesting. To see various current events in context, I believe it is important to realize that the reality of the powers that be presenting
    Message 1 of 3 , May 22 9:38 PM
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      Bill

      Very interesting. To see various current events in context, I believe it is important to realize that the reality of the powers that be presenting falsehoods to the people goes back thousands of years.Julius Caesar's "Account of the Gaelic Wars" is believed by most scholars to contain great exagerations of the numbers of Gauls he fought etc. in order to build up a heroic persona enabling him to return and become the Caesar. Socrates was forced to drink the hemlock for corrupting the morals of the young, and his enemies were the sophists, spokemen for hire rather than seekers of truth like himself. I read a year or two ago that Mrs Socrates was unhappy with the amount of his earnings. Obviously, being a seeker of truth usually hasn't been as well paying an occupation as a sophist.Mrs Socrates would have probably been happier as Mrs Limbaugh, or Mrs Hannity. Do you recall the Simon and Garfunke song "Sounds of silence" line "The words of the prophets are written on the subway wall." The inmity between Socrates and the sophists and the inmity between Jesus and the pharasees can be seen as quite similar. In Shakespear's plays various conspiracies are often major factors in the plot. Machiavelli wrote of the intricacies of the most effective spin for a prince. Machiavelli had been in a number of political positions, and only took to writing about the methods for acquiring and maintaining power after he was out of power. I guess comparable to an major leage baseball player being a sports announcer or sports writer after his days as an a participant. Not suprisingly the Catholic Church placed "The Prince" on the prohibited list. Theories on the effective use of propaganda by both Hitler and Goering can be found online. Obviously, visionary thinkers like Jefferson and Paine were quite aware of the historical realities expressed by Machiavelli, in Shakespear's plays etc.;but as visionaries they hoped to create a new type of order free from much of the evils of the past. Of course, they knew it was a long shot; and Jefferson stated that history tells us nothing about good governments.

      Of course, many conspiracy theories are false or exagerated because they are a part of a rival faction's conspiracy against the opposing faction which they charge with conspiracy.On the other hand, I suspect that many of the more effective conspiracies are never brought to light.As for misrepresentations of their opponents' positions, factcheck.org is a nonpartisan group that regularly sends out free emails showing how candidates of both parties regularly distort and misrepresent the facts. A few years ago, a scandal broke on the then govrernor of Illinois, a Democrat. Interestingly, at the time the scandal broke his predecesor,a Republican, was doing time in prison for crooked dealings while he held that office. In the late 70s I was living in Chicago as a Cook Country Republican prosecutor was kicking ass and taking names of various Democratic aldermen in the Daley machine; and in recent years in Memphis city councilmen have been caught taking suitcases of money etc. And people getting caught is the tip of the iceberg, because it can generally be assumed that if a person didn't think the odds were in their favor, they wouldn't do these things. And hell, there are numerous ways to be involved in shady operations without legal risks, as over half of elected and appointed officials from both parties have taken jobs as lobbyists following their time in office.

      I believe the more we are aware of our uncertainties, the nearer to truth we are;because from birth we have all been bamboozeled by various disinformation from different sources. By the time language evolved as a means of communication, it also evolved as a means of deception and control.

      Peace
      Tom

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: William
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 10:22 PM
      Subject: [existlist] Re: conspiracy nuts and holacaust





      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jim
      >
      > I was just recalling something I read about post ww2 Germany. Many Germans said they had heard rumors of death camps and such;but assumed they were just the kind of things you hear from conspiracy nuts. Of course, with the internet and such we are in a position to obtain a lot more information than the ww2 era German;however,there is a certain type of character structure that resists perceiving the reality of their nation's skeletons in the closet.
      >
      > As to you and Bill's differences on the ideal mix of public versus private, I see either alternative as possibly satisfactory if a monstrous self perpetuating military industrial complex and police state are not a feature of it. In many ways I do like libertarians;but I'd have no qualms about supporting a left of center candidate who sought to end imperialism abroad, and the growing police state at home. I certainly believe these two evils are two sides of the same monster.
      >
      > Peace
      > Tom
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Jim
      > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 2:32 PM
      > Subject: [existlist] Re: Good changes
      > Tom< Things are coming to light about the biggest conspiracy situation in the last ten years. Many of the principals are still alive and still vulnerable. Cover stories are leaking and one intelligence official is charged under sedition acts. It may be some material is coming from the Ben Ladin raid and big names are being put in the spotlight. NSA has problems in the area of top level technology usage and acquisition.It is a whistle blower who is charged. 9/11 arrived through civilian aviation and disruptions in the NSA, under the leadership of an Air Force general are being covered. Tom this is the beginning of the birth of the mother of all conspiracy theories. You probably know more than I can find out as Ron Paul is Air Force. You are probably dead center in the worlds greatest conspiracy theory as it is being born. The materials leaking are not classified and if classified material is leaked it may well be extremely potent. Of course Bush was an Air Force officer and the security at NSA was handled by an Air Force three star. Two cyber security contracts are being reexamined as failure of these cyber links caused a hole that allowed the 9/11 operators to penetrate. The press is ripping it apart like mad dogs. I want to read it as it is the story of our last 10 years. Bill
      >
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > You write:
      >
      > "Change is the constant and a human will always be in flux. If you abide with static morality and pin your achievements on obedience to your creed you just screw yourself into the soil and wait for death."
      >
      > I very much agree with these words.
      >
      > As your creed is capitalism, I am looking forward to you abandoning this creed. I would not want you to screw yourself into the soil and wait for death.
      >
      > Jim
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >





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