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Re: New enlightened ways of thinking

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  • Jim
    Mary, Thank you for the clarification. Yes global capitalism wants to co-opt (sequest?) the Green Movement for its own ends, but those in the Green Movement
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 26 11:28 AM
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      Mary,

      Thank you for the clarification.

      Yes global capitalism wants to co-opt (sequest?) the Green Movement for its own ends, but those in the Green Movement know what the capitalists are trying to do, and they will resist.

      I think environmentalists can act politically without needing a "big Other". I think it is wise to have respect for nature, but that doesn't mean never intervening to change the natural habitat. It just means being cautious when we do decide to manipulate the environment – for example when a decision is made to build a dam.

      Jim
    • William
      ... OK Jim , a dam. A dam is not forever, it is a temporary answer to a local problem. Even the High Aswan was a guess at the future. You tell me soothsayer,
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 26 6:47 PM
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        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mary,
        >
        > Thank you for the clarification.
        >
        > Yes global capitalism wants to co-opt (sequest?) the Green Movement for its own ends, but those in the Green Movement know what the capitalists are trying to do, and they will resist.
        >
        > I think environmentalists can act politically without needing a "big Other". I think it is wise to have respect for nature, but that doesn't mean never intervening to change the natural habitat. It just means being cautious when we do decide to manipulate the environment – for example when a decision is made to build a dam.
        >
        > Jim
        >
        OK Jim , a dam. A dam is not forever, it is a temporary answer to a local problem. Even the High Aswan was a guess at the future. You tell me soothsayer, was it for the better or worst. I have helped build two dams . They both still exist and seem to have provided a great deal for the immediate people. It was a huge job to build the great one. We ran scrapers and sent bulldozers and the forest was cut back and dragged and burned and weighted to the bottom. I was at the dam when they closed the gates. It was not exciting . Holding kinetic energy is a bit of an art. It is also tempting fate. Jim, have you never been in a great flood? Please inform. Bill
      • Herman
        Hey Bill, ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure#List_of_major_dam_failures ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 27 5:05 AM
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          Hey Bill,

          On 27 April 2011 11:47, William <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:

          > Jim, have you never been in a great flood? Please inform. Bill
          >
          > You ever been in a dam failure? Please inform. Herman

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure#List_of_major_dam_failures




          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • eupraxis@aol.com
          I ve suffered a mother of all (recent) floods. Was quite the drag. Wil ... From: Herman To: existlist Sent:
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 27 7:13 AM
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            I've suffered a mother of all (recent) floods. Was quite the drag.

            Wil


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
            To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Apr 27, 2011 8:59 am
            Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: New enlightened ways of thinking


            Hey Bill,



            On 27 April 2011 11:47, William <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:



            > Jim, have you never been in a great flood? Please inform. Bill

            >

            > You ever been in a dam failure? Please inform. Herman



            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure#List_of_major_dam_failures









            >

            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary
            Jim, Can t imagine why anyone would argue against caution. Taking into account all factors such as the extinction of species, the displacement of people
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 27 9:01 AM
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              Jim,

              Can't imagine why anyone would argue against caution. Taking into account all factors such as the extinction of species, the displacement of people (especially devastating to indigenous peoples), the bad cost to benefit ratio for most everyone except the consortiums who build them, and an increase in so-called 100 year events, yeah, I'd say caution is advisable.

              Mary


              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Mary,
              >
              > Thank you for the clarification.
              >
              > Yes global capitalism wants to co-opt (sequest?) the Green Movement for its own ends, but those in the Green Movement know what the capitalists are trying to do, and they will resist.
              >
              > I think environmentalists can act politically without needing a "big Other". I think it is wise to have respect for nature, but that doesn't mean never intervening to change the natural habitat. It just means being cautious when we do decide to manipulate the environment – for example when a decision is made to build a dam.
              >
              > Jim
              >
            • Mary
              Bill, I don t like cap and trade either, but energy problems are serious. I see nothing harmful or sacrificial about considering the environment. Multiple
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 27 11:24 AM
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                Bill,

                I don't like cap and trade either, but energy problems are serious. I see nothing harmful or sacrificial about considering the environment. Multiple approaches are necessary to complex problems, and limiting growth is one of them. Several years ago I was interested in the Mandan and learned about the Garrison Dam debacle. And when I working in the electrical T&D side of the energy sector, AEP announced plans to build a new 765kV power line through Virginia. It took 16 years from planning to energization because of environmental and cultural concerns. We need to seriously upgrade the grid, bring alternate technologies on line, conserve, and worry less about drilling. Protecting the environment and people is practical, and trade-offs are necessary, but we're in an unsustainable growth situation now.

                Mary
              • William
                ... Mary, Harry Reid has started the war by introducing repeal of oil company tax breaks. That is good sabre rattling but the house will probably squelch it.
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 27 12:23 PM
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                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bill,
                  >
                  > I don't like cap and trade either, but energy problems are serious. I see nothing harmful or sacrificial about considering the environment. Multiple approaches are necessary to complex problems, and limiting growth is one of them. Several years ago I was interested in the Mandan and learned about the Garrison Dam debacle. And when I working in the electrical T&D side of the energy sector, AEP announced plans to build a new 765kV power line through Virginia. It took 16 years from planning to energization because of environmental and cultural concerns. We need to seriously upgrade the grid, bring alternate technologies on line, conserve, and worry less about drilling. Protecting the environment and people is practical, and trade-offs are necessary, but we're in an unsustainable growth situation now.
                  >
                  > Mary
                  >
                  Mary, Harry Reid has started the war by introducing repeal of oil company tax breaks. That is good sabre rattling but the house will probably squelch it. Harry and Obama will make them pay a political price as gas prices really piss voters off. It will be easy to brand them as anti middle class if they block taxation of big oil.
                  Conoco came in with low production numbers but Exxon and Chevron come out Thursday and Friday. Big numbers will allow Harry to threaten deep cuts and the conservatives will have to circle the wagons to save their major constituants.
                  I am not for an increase in oil drilling but natural gas seems our best bet for short term energy self sufficency. Reid does not want to drive the oil companies out of business but if they dont get their profit margins they will not produce and guess what happens to the price at the pump when that happens. Conoco`s production was down 7% and that will raise the price at the pump. Taxing the shit out of big oil is a bad idea as they are the people who need to open up those natural gas fields. I have seen the plans for the pipe lines and think the system should be built. I do not think you can get new nukes built after the Japanese debacle. We do not have the electric generational capacity to run an electric auto fleet. Wind and solar may be enough for a small country likr GB but it is not enough for USA.
                  On the research front there are leaked reports from CERN that they have good evidence of the Higgs Boson. That is the possible big game changer and I have hope we might get a breakthrough. As Ray Krock says "We couuld use a break,today". Bill
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