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Re: Self / Other

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  • Jim
    Herman, Thank you for your detailed response which has helped me to understand your position. Let me comment on these aspects of your reply:
    Message 1 of 67 , Apr 3, 2011
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      Herman,

      Thank you for your detailed response which has helped me to understand your position.

      Let me comment on these aspects of your reply:

      << Sartre delivered no ethics, and certainly in Being and Nothingness considered such to be impossible given it's method (phenomenology).

      I would just like to add that any such freedom to create ourselves is also a necessity, simply because there are no values or meanings that are given ie in-itself. In Sartre's words, we are condemned to be free, or to paraphrase, we HAVE TO make it all up as we go along. So, we are dealing with a freedom that is a necessity. Contradiction? Paradox?

      But I rather got the feeling from Sartre that the attempt to try to be be oneself is a manifestation of bad faith, because in the mode of pure reflection there is simply and only the spontaneous upsurge of events. The authentic being isn't a being. >>

      I am no expert on Sartre, so I welcome correction from yourself or others on this list if what I say here is inaccurate.

      I agree that Sartre, like Heidegger, did not offer an ethics, because, for them, there are no objective values.

      However he did seem to have a preference for authenticity over inauthenticity or bad faith. Recall he bemoaned to his friends that it was easier to live authentically in a war situation than in peace time.

      Further he seemed to identify bad faith with self-deception. Recall the waiter who identifies himself too much with his role as a waiter, or the flirt who denies responsibility for leading her male companions on.

      You remind us that Sartre said we were condemned to be free, so we are responsible for the choices we make. And to deny this is another manifestation of bad faith.

      Now, perhaps, as you say, Sartre's position was paradoxical, even incoherent.

      What would Sartre say of "the attempt to be oneself"? Well, if it was an attempt to be the being-in-itself, then I would agree that there was no motivation to attempt this as it is an attempt to keep things exactly the same as they always have been, for no good reason.

      However if I attempt to keep my promises, or carry out long-term commitments I have made to others, or myself, am I necessarily manifesting bad faith, according to Sartre?

      Jim
    • Herman
      Thanks for your thoughts, Bill, Mary and Jim, Much appreciated. Cheers Herman ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 67 of 67 , Apr 23, 2011
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        Thanks for your thoughts, Bill, Mary and Jim,

        Much appreciated.

        Cheers

        Herman

        On 24 April 2011 03:30, Jim <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Herman,
        >
        > I wonder if you have read Schopenhauer on music. My guess is you have and
        > you agree with his take on music. He argues that music connects us with the
        > underlying oneness of ultimate reality, whereas language and science are
        > part of the veil of Maya. For Schopenhauer conceptual thought is bad because
        > it is all part of the will-to-live, whereas music is not at all part of
        > conceptual thought, but is more like a direct intuition of
        > reality-in-itself.
        >
        > So for Schopenhauer only music without lyrics would be considered untainted
        > by our concepts and reasoning abilities.
        >
        > Music has been a positive presence in my life. Like Bill I prefer
        > contemporary popular music to classical music, although I appreciate
        > different genres of music.
        >
        > As a teenager I identified with the punk movement that developed in the UK
        > in the late seventies. Then music was all about rebellion and distancing
        > oneself from the boring and hypocritical establishment.
        >
        > I still prefer music with an edge to it, but I appreciate more calm
        > harmonies rather than just the rebel yells these days.
        >
        > Jim
        >
        > P.S. Louise, I don't know what kind of music you like these days, but I
        > wonder if you would like P. J. Harvey's latest release "Let England Shake".
        > The subject matter makes me think you may enjoy it.
        >
        >
        >


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