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Re: Self / Other

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  • Mary
    Herman, I recall you once noted that with Sartre s THE WORDS, he turned from plays and novels. But then he strictly committed to political writing and
    Message 1 of 67 , Apr 2 8:36 AM
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      Herman,

      I recall you once noted that with Sartre's THE WORDS, he turned from plays and novels. But then he strictly committed to political writing and biography :) While you want to see in early Sartre's B&N a correspondence Buddhism,you won't find in the later CDR, of which he was most proud, along with a few of his plays, such as NO EXIT and THE FLIES. Sartre stands firmly in a line of German idealists, so while I agree with Jim that Existentialism is divided between'solitaries' and those who give themselves to solidarity, neither were strictly solitary but exhorted readers to discover their own values, not on mountain tops, but in society. And we definitely don't find non-involvement from Sartre, Camus, Beauvoir, Camus, Jaspers, Merleau Ponty, or others. They might have disagreed upon limits, but not engagement per se. The oneness Jim suggests you promote is quite different from Sartre's totality and the dialectical process of groups within it. Actually, Camus comes closest to what you think, in regards to revolution, but certainly encouraged worker solidarity and opposition to capital punishment.

      It seems you are saying there are only others, but we should live for ourselves. I acquired my own copy of Sartre's DIRTY HANDS, so maybe I'll read that alongside the Lennon biography.

      Thanks,
      Mary


      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Mary,
      >
      > On 2 April 2011 04:29, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Herman,
      > >
      > > I agree with this, and tack on a reply to your other post. I'm having
      > > difficulty understanding how organized action is less harmful than personal
      > > non-action, with this latter seeming impossible. You think organized
      > > activities exacerbate or escalate what? And I suspect non-organized activity
      > > is still action, through our ordinary daily choices, such as what we
      > > consume, where are taxes are spent, etc.
      > >
      >
      > The action that necessarily precedes all actions is to constitute events /
      > phenomena as being caused by agency, free-willing no less. Whether that
      > agent is God or self is identical in effect. The harm has been done. Now the
      > actor is guilty of the world and what it lacks.
      >
      > To act towards an imagined different world is to be oblivious to what there
      > is.
      >
      > Sartre's pure reflection and Buddhist mindfulness come to mind here.
      >
      > Cheers
      >
      >
      > Herman
      >
      >
      > > Mary
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi all,
      > > >
      > > > This post could have been tacked on to many recent posts. For many recent
      > > > posts have triggered these thoughts.
      > > >
      > > > I thought'd I'd avoid the injustice of it all, and start a new thread.
      > > >
      > > > The category Self is no more than an instance of the category Other.
      > > >
      > > > There is, in reality, no privileged access to Self that justifies
      > > > demarcation from Other.
      > > >
      > > > Sartre was very precisely accurate in noticing that all phenomena are
      > > Other,
      > > > in their structural dependence on negation.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers
      > > >
      > > > Herman
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Herman
      Thanks for your thoughts, Bill, Mary and Jim, Much appreciated. Cheers Herman ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 67 of 67 , Apr 23 8:16 PM
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        Thanks for your thoughts, Bill, Mary and Jim,

        Much appreciated.

        Cheers

        Herman

        On 24 April 2011 03:30, Jim <jjimstuart1@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Herman,
        >
        > I wonder if you have read Schopenhauer on music. My guess is you have and
        > you agree with his take on music. He argues that music connects us with the
        > underlying oneness of ultimate reality, whereas language and science are
        > part of the veil of Maya. For Schopenhauer conceptual thought is bad because
        > it is all part of the will-to-live, whereas music is not at all part of
        > conceptual thought, but is more like a direct intuition of
        > reality-in-itself.
        >
        > So for Schopenhauer only music without lyrics would be considered untainted
        > by our concepts and reasoning abilities.
        >
        > Music has been a positive presence in my life. Like Bill I prefer
        > contemporary popular music to classical music, although I appreciate
        > different genres of music.
        >
        > As a teenager I identified with the punk movement that developed in the UK
        > in the late seventies. Then music was all about rebellion and distancing
        > oneself from the boring and hypocritical establishment.
        >
        > I still prefer music with an edge to it, but I appreciate more calm
        > harmonies rather than just the rebel yells these days.
        >
        > Jim
        >
        > P.S. Louise, I don't know what kind of music you like these days, but I
        > wonder if you would like P. J. Harvey's latest release "Let England Shake".
        > The subject matter makes me think you may enjoy it.
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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