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Re: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth

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  • tom
    Wil and Mary I see several possible drawbacks to the US assisting violent democratic movements. Number one is the historical tendencies for nations making up
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 2, 2011
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      Wil and Mary

      I see several possible drawbacks to the US assisting violent democratic movements. Number one is the historical tendencies for nations making up idealistic reasons to a attack and invade weaker nations, and even if their intentions were pure, the presence of a superpower interfering in the internal squables of a 3rd world country tends to cast suspicion on the rebels as being a front for the superpower. I am a great admirer of Switzerland for living in peace and neutrality as other much more powerful and distant nations like the US have increasingly been involved in wars around the world. I still greatly respect the ideas of Washington, Jefferson, and Madisan as to as much as possible staying clear of entangling alliances. I certainly felt good about my signing the petition at change.org to not cut off the 40 million a year funding of a dept of peace. Hundreds of billions are spent each year as creative minds come up with more lethal ways to kill people. I think spending 40 million a year to support creatiive minds come up with ways to remain neutral and at piece would be a much better investment. All we are saying is give peace a chance.

      Peace
      Tom
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: eupraxis@...
      To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:23 PM
      Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth



      Then add further violence.

      Wil


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
      To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52 pm
      Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth

      My apologies, as this was probably too idealistic for some, and not philosophical enough for others. I don't how to assist violent democratic movements without adding further violence.

      Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > Thanks for your honesty. I also say `no' for other reasons. The modern strategy of arming madmen and the exploited, thereby ensuring civil war, provisional occupation, or profit, is proving to be the senseless evil it always was. Though not completely grasping the function of evil in history, I reject the false inevitability of perpetual war and am convinced that even interpersonal and community conflicts are directly related to this false necessity. We should always ally with democratic movements lest hypocrisy be exposed and further exploited by our enemies. If we fake it until we make it, who knows? State, as government of individuals might not perish from the earth.
      >
      > Mary
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mary
      Wil, Unfortunately, perpetrators of violence, systemic or otherwise, will continue unless met with equal force. Democratic principles are being replaced with
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 2, 2011
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        Wil,

        Unfortunately, perpetrators of violence, systemic or otherwise, will continue unless met with equal force. Democratic principles are being replaced with economic 'pragmatism' at a frightening pace both here and abroad. A democratic movement across the region which weakens Western hegemony, Israeli intransigence, and Arab monarchies might guarantee a productive peace. I concede the necessity of defensive violence but really crave a philosophical understanding of how evil and violence wrestle towards their `end.'

        Mary


        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
        >
        > Then add further violence.
        >
        > Wil
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
        > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52 pm
        > Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > My apologies, as this was probably too idealistic for some, and not philosophical enough for others. I don't how to assist violent democratic movements without adding further violence.
        >
        > Mary
        >
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Bill,
        > >
        > > Thanks for your honesty. I also say `no' for other reasons. The modern strategy of arming madmen and the exploited, thereby ensuring civil war, provisional occupation, or profit, is proving to be the senseless evil it always was. Though not completely grasping the function of evil in history, I reject the false inevitability of perpetual war and am convinced that even interpersonal and community conflicts are directly related to this false necessity. We should always ally with democratic movements lest hypocrisy be exposed and further exploited by our enemies. If we fake it until we make it, who knows? State, as government of individuals might not perish from the earth.
        > >
        > > Mary
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • eupraxis@aol.com
        Mary, I rather cynically doubt that our own problems will be solved (I mean the total corporatization of US society) democratically , or by voting for
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 2, 2011
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          Mary,

          I rather cynically doubt that our own problems will be solved (I mean the total corporatization of US society) "democratically", or by voting for candidates from either party. I just doubt it. What that means is not clear.

          I was being glib earlier, of course, but as far as violence goes, how less violent is it to throw a few million families out of their homes, extrend stop loss for countless troops for wars without purpose, eavesdrop on all communications, stamp out unions by fiat, give away the national wealth to banks and Wall Street and then cut back essential services to that nation, etc.?

          Wil






          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
          To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:05 pm
          Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth





          Wil,

          Unfortunately, perpetrators of violence, systemic or otherwise, will continue unless met with equal force. Democratic principles are being replaced with economic 'pragmatism' at a frightening pace both here and abroad. A democratic movement across the region which weakens Western hegemony, Israeli intransigence, and Arab monarchies might guarantee a productive peace. I concede the necessity of defensive violence but really crave a philosophical understanding of how evil and violence wrestle towards their `end.'

          Mary

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
          >
          > Then add further violence.
          >
          > Wil
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
          > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52 pm
          > Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > My apologies, as this was probably too idealistic for some, and not philosophical enough for others. I don't how to assist violent democratic movements without adding further violence.
          >
          > Mary
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Bill,
          > >
          > > Thanks for your honesty. I also say `no' for other reasons. The modern strategy of arming madmen and the exploited, thereby ensuring civil war, provisional occupation, or profit, is proving to be the senseless evil it always was. Though not completely grasping the function of evil in history, I reject the false inevitability of perpetual war and am convinced that even interpersonal and community conflicts are directly related to this false necessity. We should always ally with democratic movements lest hypocrisy be exposed and further exploited by our enemies. If we fake it until we make it, who knows? State, as government of individuals might not perish from the earth.
          > >
          > > Mary
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mary
          Wil, I consider these forms of violence systemic and require equal force. I ve also said the two party system is a farce. Mary
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 2, 2011
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            Wil,

            I consider these forms of violence systemic and require equal force. I've also said the two party system is a farce.

            Mary

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
            >
            > Mary,
            >
            > I rather cynically doubt that our own problems will be solved (I mean the total corporatization of US society) "democratically", or by voting for candidates from either party. I just doubt it. What that means is not clear.
            >
            > I was being glib earlier, of course, but as far as violence goes, how less violent is it to throw a few million families out of their homes, extrend stop loss for countless troops for wars without purpose, eavesdrop on all communications, stamp out unions by fiat, give away the national wealth to banks and Wall Street and then cut back essential services to that nation, etc.?
            >
            > Wil
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
            > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:05 pm
            > Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Wil,
            >
            > Unfortunately, perpetrators of violence, systemic or otherwise, will continue unless met with equal force. Democratic principles are being replaced with economic 'pragmatism' at a frightening pace both here and abroad. A democratic movement across the region which weakens Western hegemony, Israeli intransigence, and Arab monarchies might guarantee a productive peace. I concede the necessity of defensive violence but really crave a philosophical understanding of how evil and violence wrestle towards their `end.'
            >
            > Mary
            >
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Then add further violence.
            > >
            > > Wil
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Mary <josephson45r@>
            > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52 pm
            > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > My apologies, as this was probably too idealistic for some, and not philosophical enough for others. I don't how to assist violent democratic movements without adding further violence.
            > >
            > > Mary
            > >
            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Bill,
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for your honesty. I also say `no' for other reasons. The modern strategy of arming madmen and the exploited, thereby ensuring civil war, provisional occupation, or profit, is proving to be the senseless evil it always was. Though not completely grasping the function of evil in history, I reject the false inevitability of perpetual war and am convinced that even interpersonal and community conflicts are directly related to this false necessity. We should always ally with democratic movements lest hypocrisy be exposed and further exploited by our enemies. If we fake it until we make it, who knows? State, as government of individuals might not perish from the earth.
            > > >
            > > > Mary
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • eupraxis@aol.com
            Mary, I wasn t arguing with you. I was, maybe, commiserating. Wil ... From: Mary To: existlist Sent: Wed,
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 2, 2011
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              Mary,

              I wasn't arguing with you. I was, maybe, commiserating.

              Wil





              -----Original Message-----
              From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
              To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:28 pm
              Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth





              Wil,

              I consider these forms of violence systemic and require equal force. I've also said the two party system is a farce.

              Mary

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
              >
              > Mary,
              >
              > I rather cynically doubt that our own problems will be solved (I mean the total corporatization of US society) "democratically", or by voting for candidates from either party. I just doubt it. What that means is not clear.
              >
              > I was being glib earlier, of course, but as far as violence goes, how less violent is it to throw a few million families out of their homes, extrend stop loss for countless troops for wars without purpose, eavesdrop on all communications, stamp out unions by fiat, give away the national wealth to banks and Wall Street and then cut back essential services to that nation, etc.?
              >
              > Wil
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Mary <josephson45r@...>
              > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:05 pm
              > Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Wil,
              >
              > Unfortunately, perpetrators of violence, systemic or otherwise, will continue unless met with equal force. Democratic principles are being replaced with economic 'pragmatism' at a frightening pace both here and abroad. A democratic movement across the region which weakens Western hegemony, Israeli intransigence, and Arab monarchies might guarantee a productive peace. I concede the necessity of defensive violence but really crave a philosophical understanding of how evil and violence wrestle towards their `end.'
              >
              > Mary
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Then add further violence.
              > >
              > > Wil
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Mary <josephson45r@>
              > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52 pm
              > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Toward Truth
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > My apologies, as this was probably too idealistic for some, and not philosophical enough for others. I don't how to assist violent democratic movements without adding further violence.
              > >
              > > Mary
              > >
              > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Bill,
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for your honesty. I also say `no' for other reasons. The modern strategy of arming madmen and the exploited, thereby ensuring civil war, provisional occupation, or profit, is proving to be the senseless evil it always was. Though not completely grasping the function of evil in history, I reject the false inevitability of perpetual war and am convinced that even interpersonal and community conflicts are directly related to this false necessity. We should always ally with democratic movements lest hypocrisy be exposed and further exploited by our enemies. If we fake it until we make it, who knows? State, as government of individuals might not perish from the earth.
              > > >
              > > > Mary
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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