Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Up with American regionalism

Expand Messages
  • irvhal
    Perhaps my comment would have been better had I used the term folkways in lieu of virtue. For example, the Afghan tribesman s are not ours, and any attempt to
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Perhaps my comment would have been better had I used the term folkways in lieu of virtue. For example, the Afghan tribesman's are not ours, and any attempt to impose ours in the name of nation-building will perhaps be no more successful, though perhaps costlier, than the earlier attempt by the Soviets.

      Irvin

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
      >
      > ... should have written 'sufficient' number ...
      >
      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
      > >
      > > As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.
      > >
      > > Mary
      > >
      > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
      > > >
      > > > Irvin
      > > >
      > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Wil and Bill
      > > > >
      > > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
      > > > >
      > > > > Peace
      > > > > Tom
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > From: eupraxis@
      > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
      > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Bill,
      > > > >
      > > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
      > > > >
      > > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
      > > > >
      > > > > Wil
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
      > > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
      > > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
      > > > >
      > > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
      > > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
      > > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Mary
      Hi, Bill. I don t miss the commuter lifestyle, but I do miss my little acre in the country and feeding all the critters. Yet I ve traded all that for a
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Bill.

        I don't miss the commuter lifestyle, but I do miss my little acre in the country and feeding all the critters. Yet I've traded all that for a panoramic view of Lake Michigan (Packers turf, not Bears) and watch the gulls feed themselves! We even had a red fox roaming the city woods this summer. Quite a sound to hear late at night. And no, watching another dictator foment civil war in order to stay in power is very depressing. Hard world, indeed.

        Mary

        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
        > Mary, I have entered the battle with the blizzard and have won round one. I can get out and have my appointed spaces cleared. Now I will look to the birds and Squirrls who need food.------There the critters are fed and it took only a few secounds for the feasting to begin. Blue jays can crack open whole peanuts and after they have finished i will put smaller food out for the small birds. Pissing off a blue jay is like pissing off a mubarik supporter, instant aggression and violence. Women, especially christian women just do not appreciate that sort of behavour but turning the other cheek will not allow the meek to inherit the earth. A favorite slogan of the gun people says"If you run you will just die tired". That savage attitude is present in a great many men. Now a big black crow has taken over the food,he swallows the peanuts whole and spills a great amount. When the crows come for peanuts I know it is starvation bleek out there. Now the squirrls have had enough and are driving the crows off the nuts. Competition is the law of this hard planet and only in the few days of plenty do the rules change. Change is what I hear on the tube but change to what? Plenty is the only answer but breeding like insects will not accomplish plenty. So we breed hard, fight hard and die hard. Great world ,Huh? Bill
      • Mary
        Thank you, and I agree. NGO s such as Greg Mortenson s Central Asia Institute have success in providing essential services and building schools specifically
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you, and I agree. NGO's such as Greg Mortenson's Central Asia Institute have success in providing essential services and building schools specifically because projects are designed, built, and administered by locals. Rather than be bullied by terrorists, they protect their villages in order to improve their lives. A philosophy and policy of helping where requested is always preferable to one of nation building.

          Mary

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
          >
          > Perhaps my comment would have been better had I used the term folkways in lieu of virtue. For example, the Afghan tribesman's are not ours, and any attempt to impose ours in the name of nation-building will perhaps be no more successful, though perhaps costlier, than the earlier attempt by the Soviets.
          >
          > Irvin
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
          > >
          > > ... should have written 'sufficient' number ...
          > >
          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.
          > > >
          > > > Mary
          > > >
          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
          > > > >
          > > > > Irvin
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Wil and Bill
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Peace
          > > > > > Tom
          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > > From: eupraxis@
          > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
          > > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Bill,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Wil
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
          > > > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
          > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
          > > > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
          > > > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
          > > > > >
          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.