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Up with American regionalism

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  • William
    I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility. This
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 31, 2011
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      I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
      This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
      Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
    • eupraxis@aol.com
      Bill, Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Bill,

        Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.

        "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.

        Wil


        -----Original Message-----
        From: William <v.valleywestdental@...>
        To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
        Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism





        I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
        This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
        Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • tom
        Wil and Bill I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and getting in your face as aggressive
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Wil and Bill

          I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.

          Peace
          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: eupraxis@...
          To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
          Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism




          Bill,

          Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.

          "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.

          Wil


          -----Original Message-----
          From: William <v.valleywestdental@...>
          To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
          Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism

          I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
          This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
          Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irvhal
          The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.

            Irvin

            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wil and Bill
            >
            > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
            >
            > Peace
            > Tom
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: eupraxis@...
            > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
            > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Bill,
            >
            > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
            >
            > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
            >
            > Wil
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: William <v.valleywestdental@...>
            > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
            > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
            >
            > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
            > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
            > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • eupraxis@aol.com
            Well, then, we should shirk . Wil ... From: irvhal To: existlist Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 10:58 am Subject:
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Well, then, we should "shirk".

              Wil



              -----Original Message-----
              From: irvhal <i99hj@...>
              To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 10:58 am
              Subject: [existlist] Re: Up with American regionalism





              The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.

              Irvin

              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wil and Bill
              >
              > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying t heir conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
              >
              > Peace
              > Tom
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: eupraxis@...
              > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
              > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Bill,
              >
              > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
              >
              > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
              >
              > Wil
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: William <v.valleywestdental@...>
              > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
              > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
              >
              > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
              > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
              > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
                >
                > Well, then, we should "shirk".
                >
                > Wil
                > Wil, You may be right as our telecom empire may make it unnecessary to deal with the old societies other than with non paper transactions. I have been noticing the tanks on the street in Egypt. They are of US design. We give them foreign aid and they buy our weapons. Therefore we subsidise our arms industry with our own money. It is good for employment here and feeds the MIC. Now Egyptians cant afford to feed themselves, the profits from cotton and transportation leases are gobbled up by the rapicous wealthy. Revolt seems necessary but we should stay out of it as they will buy food or more arms or they will perish. When I site the Monroe doctrine I mean we stay out of their business. That ancient culture must be reformed but we cannot do it. They must do it and if they don`t or can`t they will recede into anarchy. We should not try to take over just as they should not meddle in our western hemisphere business. Enough of them will get into the US that we need not worry about losing their genetic heratage. Those old cultures work to isolate their gene pool and have not figured out our strength is our ever broadning gene pool. New ideas spring out of recumbant DNA and those idiots have bred themselves into a corner. Do gooder liberals and bible pounder christians will demand we take millions of them here but I think many see our prosperity springs from manageable population numbers.There I think Tom and I could make some agreement. We certainly have greater responsibility under the Monroe doctrine to western hemisphere hispanics than to middle eastern egyptians. You can`t buy out overpopulated states, they just spend the money and make more people. I understand the Monroe doctrine is a very old document but it is in our history and might be of renewed use in the near future.I am not speaking from a globalist perspective but from an American perspective, Like Keller,that is what I am. Bill
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: irvhal <i99hj@...>
                > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 10:58 am
                > Subject: [existlist] Re: Up with American regionalism
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                >
                > Irvin
                >
                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Wil and Bill
                > >
                > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying t heir conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                > >
                > > Peace
                > > Tom
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: eupraxis@
                > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Bill,
                > >
                > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                > >
                > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                > >
                > > Wil
                > >
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                > >
                > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • eupraxis@aol.com
                My hunch is that the current regime will fall; the new one will form; aid will continue as before. The only real change that I can surmise would be towards the
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  My hunch is that the current regime will fall; the new one will form; aid will continue as before. The only real change that I can surmise would be towards the Palestinians -- that is, taking a more pro-Palestinian stance as part of the old treaty obligations. If so, it would be a win-win situation, as far as I am concerned.

                  Wil


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: William <v.valleywestdental@...>
                  To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 1:45 pm
                  Subject: [existlist] Re: Up with American regionalism







                  --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Well, then, we should "shirk".
                  >
                  > Wil
                  > Wil, You may be right as our telecom empire may make it unnecessary to deal with the old societies other than with non paper transactions. I have been noticing the tanks on the street in Egypt. They are of US design. We give them foreign aid and they buy our weapons. Therefore we subsidise our arms industry with our own money. It is good for employment here and feeds the MIC. Now Egyptians cant afford to feed themselves, the profits from cotton and transportation leases are gobbled up by the rapicous wealthy. Revolt seems necessary but we should stay out of it as they will buy food or more arms or they will perish. When I site the Monroe doctrine I mean we stay out of their business. That ancient culture must be reformed but we cannot do it. They must do it and if they don`t or can`t they will recede into anarchy. We should not try to take over just as they should not meddle in our western hemisphere business. Enough of them will get into the US that we need not worr y about losing their genetic heratage. Those old cultures work to isolate their gene pool and have not figured out our strength is our ever broadning gene pool. New ideas spring out of recumbant DNA and those idiots have bred themselves into a corner. Do gooder liberals and bible pounder christians will demand we take millions of them here but I think many see our prosperity springs from manageable population numbers.There I think Tom and I could make some agreement. We certainly have greater responsibility under the Monroe doctrine to western hemisphere hispanics than to middle eastern egyptians. You can`t buy out overpopulated states, they just spend the money and make more people. I understand the Monroe doctrine is a very old document but it is in our history and might be of renewed use in the near future.I am not speaking from a globalist perspective but from an American perspective, Like Keller,that is what I am. Bill
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: irvhal <i99hj@...>
                  > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 10:58 am
                  > Subject: [existlist] Re: Up with American regionalism
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                  >
                  > Irvin
                  >
                  > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Wil and Bill
                  > >
                  > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justify ing t heir conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                  > >
                  > > Peace
                  > > Tom
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: eupraxis@
                  > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Bill,
                  > >
                  > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                  > >
                  > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                  > >
                  > > Wil
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                  > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                  > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                  > >
                  > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                  > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                  > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >









                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • William
                  ... The poor bastards in Egypt will not have it so good but at least we did not blow up their country like Bush did Iraq. Have you seen the little gift we have
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@... wrote:
                    >
                    > My hunch is that the current regime will fall; the new one will form; aid will continue as before. The only real change that I can surmise would be towards the Palestinians -- that is, taking a more pro-Palestinian stance as part of the old treaty obligations. If so, it would be a win-win situation, as far as I am concerned.
                    >
                    > Wil
                    >Wil, Mubarik just said he will not run again all he is doing by staying is risking his life. I think he will go to London and the Queen will be nicely paid to baby sit him. The guy will get a golden parachute for his years of fealty to Uncle Sam.
                    The poor bastards in Egypt will not have it so good but at least we did not blow up their country like Bush did Iraq. Have you seen the little gift we have given the Iranians? A worm that could eat their centrrafuges. It may have been the Brits but one of us shoulld get a cookie. Bill
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: William <v.valleywestdental@...>
                    > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 1:45 pm
                    > Subject: [existlist] Re: Up with American regionalism
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eupraxis@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Well, then, we should "shirk".
                    > >
                    > > Wil
                    > > Wil, You may be right as our telecom empire may make it unnecessary to deal with the old societies other than with non paper transactions. I have been noticing the tanks on the street in Egypt. They are of US design. We give them foreign aid and they buy our weapons. Therefore we subsidise our arms industry with our own money. It is good for employment here and feeds the MIC. Now Egyptians cant afford to feed themselves, the profits from cotton and transportation leases are gobbled up by the rapicous wealthy. Revolt seems necessary but we should stay out of it as they will buy food or more arms or they will perish. When I site the Monroe doctrine I mean we stay out of their business. That ancient culture must be reformed but we cannot do it. They must do it and if they don`t or can`t they will recede into anarchy. We should not try to take over just as they should not meddle in our western hemisphere business. Enough of them will get into the US that we need not worr y about losing their genetic heratage. Those old cultures work to isolate their gene pool and have not figured out our strength is our ever broadning gene pool. New ideas spring out of recumbant DNA and those idiots have bred themselves into a corner. Do gooder liberals and bible pounder christians will demand we take millions of them here but I think many see our prosperity springs from manageable population numbers.There I think Tom and I could make some agreement. We certainly have greater responsibility under the Monroe doctrine to western hemisphere hispanics than to middle eastern egyptians. You can`t buy out overpopulated states, they just spend the money and make more people. I understand the Monroe doctrine is a very old document but it is in our history and might be of renewed use in the near future.I am not speaking from a globalist perspective but from an American perspective, Like Keller,that is what I am. Bill
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: irvhal <i99hj@>
                    > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 10:58 am
                    > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Up with American regionalism
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                    > >
                    > > Irvin
                    > >
                    > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Wil and Bill
                    > > >
                    > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justify ing t heir conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                    > > >
                    > > > Peace
                    > > > Tom
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: eupraxis@
                    > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                    > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Bill,
                    > > >
                    > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                    > > >
                    > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                    > > >
                    > > > Wil
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                    > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                    > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                    > > >
                    > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                    > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                    > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Mary
                    As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn s natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.

                      Mary

                      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                      >
                      > Irvin
                      >
                      > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Wil and Bill
                      > >
                      > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                      > >
                      > > Peace
                      > > Tom
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: eupraxis@
                      > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                      > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bill,
                      > >
                      > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                      > >
                      > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                      > >
                      > > Wil
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                      > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                      > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                      > >
                      > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                      > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                      > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • Mary
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        ... should have written 'sufficient' number ...

                        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.
                        >
                        > Mary
                        >
                        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                        > >
                        > > Irvin
                        > >
                        > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Wil and Bill
                        > > >
                        > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                        > > >
                        > > > Peace
                        > > > Tom
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: eupraxis@
                        > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                        > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Bill,
                        > > >
                        > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                        > > >
                        > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                        > > >
                        > > > Wil
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                        > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                        > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                        > > >
                        > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                        > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                        > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • William
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > ... should have written 'sufficient' number ...
                          >
                          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.
                          > >
                          > > Mary
                          > > Mary, I have entered the battle with the blizzard and have won round one. I can get out and have my appointed spaces cleared. Now I will look to the birds and Squirrls who need food.------There the critters are fed and it took only a few secounds for the feasting to begin. Blue jays can crack open whole peanuts and after they have finished i will put smaller food out for the small birds. Pissing off a blue jay is like pissing off a mubarik supporter, instant aggression and violence. Women, especially christian women just do not appreciate that sort of behavour but turning the other cheek will not allow the meek to inherit the earth. A favorite slogan of the gun people says"If you run you will just die tired". That savage attitude is present in a great many men. Now a big black crow has taken over the food,he swallows the peanuts whole and spills a great amount. When the crows come for peanuts I know it is starvation bleek out there. Now the squirrls have had enough and are driving the crows off the nuts. Competition is the law of this hard planet and only in the few days of plenty do the rules change. Change is what I hear on the tube but change to what? Plenty is the only answer but breeding like insects will not accomplish plenty. So we breed hard, fight hard and die hard. Great world ,Huh? Bill
                          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                          > > >
                          > > > Irvin
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Wil and Bill
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Peace
                          > > > > Tom
                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > From: eupraxis@
                          > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                          > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Bill,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Wil
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                          > > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                          > > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                          > > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                          > > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • irvhal
                          Perhaps my comment would have been better had I used the term folkways in lieu of virtue. For example, the Afghan tribesman s are not ours, and any attempt to
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Perhaps my comment would have been better had I used the term folkways in lieu of virtue. For example, the Afghan tribesman's are not ours, and any attempt to impose ours in the name of nation-building will perhaps be no more successful, though perhaps costlier, than the earlier attempt by the Soviets.

                            Irvin

                            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > ... should have written 'sufficient' number ...
                            >
                            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.
                            > >
                            > > Mary
                            > >
                            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                            > > >
                            > > > Irvin
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Wil and Bill
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Peace
                            > > > > Tom
                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > From: eupraxis@
                            > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Bill,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Wil
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                            > > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                            > > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                            > > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                            > > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Mary
                            Hi, Bill. I don t miss the commuter lifestyle, but I do miss my little acre in the country and feeding all the critters. Yet I ve traded all that for a
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi, Bill.

                              I don't miss the commuter lifestyle, but I do miss my little acre in the country and feeding all the critters. Yet I've traded all that for a panoramic view of Lake Michigan (Packers turf, not Bears) and watch the gulls feed themselves! We even had a red fox roaming the city woods this summer. Quite a sound to hear late at night. And no, watching another dictator foment civil war in order to stay in power is very depressing. Hard world, indeed.

                              Mary

                              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
                              > Mary, I have entered the battle with the blizzard and have won round one. I can get out and have my appointed spaces cleared. Now I will look to the birds and Squirrls who need food.------There the critters are fed and it took only a few secounds for the feasting to begin. Blue jays can crack open whole peanuts and after they have finished i will put smaller food out for the small birds. Pissing off a blue jay is like pissing off a mubarik supporter, instant aggression and violence. Women, especially christian women just do not appreciate that sort of behavour but turning the other cheek will not allow the meek to inherit the earth. A favorite slogan of the gun people says"If you run you will just die tired". That savage attitude is present in a great many men. Now a big black crow has taken over the food,he swallows the peanuts whole and spills a great amount. When the crows come for peanuts I know it is starvation bleek out there. Now the squirrls have had enough and are driving the crows off the nuts. Competition is the law of this hard planet and only in the few days of plenty do the rules change. Change is what I hear on the tube but change to what? Plenty is the only answer but breeding like insects will not accomplish plenty. So we breed hard, fight hard and die hard. Great world ,Huh? Bill
                            • Mary
                              Thank you, and I agree. NGO s such as Greg Mortenson s Central Asia Institute have success in providing essential services and building schools specifically
                              Message 14 of 14 , Feb 3, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thank you, and I agree. NGO's such as Greg Mortenson's Central Asia Institute have success in providing essential services and building schools specifically because projects are designed, built, and administered by locals. Rather than be bullied by terrorists, they protect their villages in order to improve their lives. A philosophy and policy of helping where requested is always preferable to one of nation building.

                                Mary

                                --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Perhaps my comment would have been better had I used the term folkways in lieu of virtue. For example, the Afghan tribesman's are not ours, and any attempt to impose ours in the name of nation-building will perhaps be no more successful, though perhaps costlier, than the earlier attempt by the Soviets.
                                >
                                > Irvin
                                >
                                > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > ... should have written 'sufficient' number ...
                                > >
                                > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > As the blizzard continued howling early this morning, and the fluorescent city lights gave way to dawn's natural light, the ideas in this post troubled me. Aside from individual empowerment in meeting the challenges of our complex society, when have great power and virtue ever been compatible? And rather than mere acquiescence, isn't the global displacement of people a direct result of commercial activities of the elite ? And I can't imagine how a nation could ever acquire virtue if an insufficient number of its individuals lack it or the resolve to insist its leaders eschew elitism. It's far too easy for them to insulate themselves from the common folk while advertising and campaigning to the contrary.
                                > > >
                                > > > Mary
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The Monroe Doctrine, which was meant to be a reciprocal policy whereby we refrain from the European sphere and vice versa, was but an exercise and consummation of real politik. Great powers spawn spheres of influence -- the shirking of which leaves but a void filled by another, then Spanish, later Soviet. And people and a common history define a nation, something to consider as our elites acquiesce in a multicultural immigrant invasion of immense proportion, while commmiting our blood and treasure to unwise ventures abroad. National virtues, like personal ones, are habits acquired, not something told or taught.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Irvin
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Wil and Bill
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I guess in some way a claim for the Monroe doctrine could be comparable of the idea of personal space, and "getting in your face" as aggressive and confrontational. Also the presence of foreign powers in the vicinity would be a great strategic advantage to such powers if a conflict broke out between the US and 1 of these European powers. But to attempt to apply the personal space idea to the mideast by the US would be like me accusing you of getting in my face when you are on the other side of the bar. As a matter of fact, Islamic nations could make the case that the US has been in their faces for many years. During the cold war, arguments could be made that US presence around the world was necesary to avoid the USSR taking over the world. However, today there seems to be no other competitor with the US for imperialist of the world. The US attempt to spin current imperialism as bringing freedom and democracy is comparable to the Holy Roman Empire justifying their conquest as spreading Christianity or Islamic nations spreading Islam. Ironically, I think many brainwashed Americans really believed that Operation Free Iraq was about bringing freedom to Iraqis, and anybody not interested was lacking in love of freedom and fellow man. These people began to feel angry that so many Iraqisis didn't appreciate what we were doing.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Peace
                                > > > > > Tom
                                > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > From: eupraxis@
                                > > > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:10 AM
                                > > > > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Bill,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Of course the Monroe Doctrine concerned the prevention of Western European countries from further exercising their influence in Latin America. That little bit of presumption has had the cumulative effect of keeping many lands to the south of us in bitter poverty and at the mercy of dictators and US exploitation until recent times. The idea was that South America was in some way "American". In these times, and long past the Barbary Wars, no such claim can be made concerning Egypt, of all places, even by those who try to channel Monroe.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > "Doctrines" like the aforementioned one require a 'pre-historical' populous; that is to say an underdeveloped circumstance capable of being the brunt of such paternalism. It also requires conditions for its possibility. Neither are the case here.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Wil
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > > > From: William <v.valleywestdental@>
                                > > > > > To: existlist <existlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm
                                > > > > > Subject: [existlist] Up with American regionalism
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I like the Monroe doctrine, it entered in the idea of global humanity. Monroe was thinking of world government ,many many years before its possibility.
                                > > > > > This last flash of individual thoughts seem to suggest we are not ready to surrender our daughters and share the land. Existlist is alive and well as individuals exist within and adverse to governments.
                                > > > > > Tom is truly good at that integral duality and therefore he may point the evolutionary short grass. Eat it or hide in it, just use what you need,it is your time. Bill
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
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