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Re: Mother Chomsky

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  • Mary
    As mentioned in previous posts, my late foster father was a labor organizer, an official for the amalgamated meat cutters and butchers. When I was in high
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 1, 2011
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      As mentioned in previous posts, my late foster father was a labor organizer, an official for the amalgamated meat cutters and butchers. When I was in high school, during a local strike, his son shot a rifle into a transformer which supplied power to the slaughterhouse. I overheard the conversation between the son and his parents and was quite frightened and sad. Sad because he was a young father with two small children and was in much trouble, and frightened, because I was naive enough not to understand the violence that was often part of labor strife. Soon after that, the father was promoted and relocated to Dubuque. Later, as the wife of a shop steward, I became privy to many of the struggles between labor and management and witnessed how a foundry which built equipment for the military treated its workers and watched police who also belonged to unions, break up picket lines. What is it about the proclivity of organized humans to become so extreme? I think cooperativism is a decent compromise, wherein workers have a large stake in productivity, quality, and profit, where worker safety and the environment are valued.

      Mary

      --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
      >
      > In my salad days I had my subscription to Mother Jones and hated capitalism . I deplored the system but that was acceptable as long as you were making lots of money and were known as a big producer. One thing about capitalism is you can say damn near anything as long as you put the skins on the wall. [I. E. Ted Turner, Hugh Hefner et al]. I could revel in my radical chique but then I had all the money I had time to spend and never really understood I was a darling of capitalism. As long as you turned it out you could mouth any nonsequetor with no consequences.I was drinking with liberal lawyers who were hell bent on getting rich.They liked my radical posturing especially if I was buying.Then I got in with the military and found some right wing wac jobs who saw the system in a most different light. As Mary observed it was "All about Property" and tearing up real estate was as important as owning it. Theory be damned we talked about balance of power and "Kills". I cancelled Mother Jones and subscribed to "Guns and ammo". The lawyers became scarce as they had no kills to talk about so I quit buying. Then I got in with the labor guys and they appreciated production and liked weapons. They called each other brother and had a left wing attitude that defied the owners and had a violent proclivity that was not military. I relate these matters because I have been all around the Rubics cube of economic/political theory. In the real world I find no way around capitalism, I do not like it but all that production is necessary if the lights are to remain on and the trains running on time. It is a winner/loser reality that you escape from when you get rich enough or die.Never fool yourself,the capitalists are smart and mean and they will fight to the death to protect what they have earned. I fear they cannot be replaced, who would brew the beer? Bill
      >
    • William
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
        >
        > As mentioned in previous posts, my late foster father was a labor organizer, an official for the amalgamated meat cutters and butchers. When I was in high school, during a local strike, his son shot a rifle into a transformer which supplied power to the slaughterhouse. I overheard the conversation between the son and his parents and was quite frightened and sad. Sad because he was a young father with two small children and was in much trouble, and frightened, because I was naive enough not to understand the violence that was often part of labor strife. Soon after that, the father was promoted and relocated to Dubuque. Later, as the wife of a shop steward, I became privy to many of the struggles between labor and management and witnessed how a foundry which built equipment for the military treated its workers and watched police who also belonged to unions, break up picket lines. What is it about the proclivity of organized humans to become so extreme? I think cooperativism is a decent compromise, wherein workers have a large stake in productivity, quality, and profit, where worker safety and the environment are valued.
        >
        > Mary
        >Mary, I was too young to join the union when I was in Dubuque. That wild, old river town made me do what was needed just because.Back then I volunteered,To get sandbags from a submerged warehouse we rowed into submerged buildings and loaded bales of burlap into a row boat. Turn over you die, good fun and we were sober. We saved Capones favorite town, but how do you save a trashsy river dump? Especially for a syphlytic , criminal zealot. Why is a hellion like Al remembered and worshiped?Knowing history can make you renounce the official version in difference to a personally examined version. After all the philosophy I have read I still trust what I have seen, smelled and fought against. Empiricism is hard to defeat unless it has all just been in your mind. Bill
        > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
        > >
        > > In my salad days I had my subscription to Mother Jones and hated capitalism . I deplored the system but that was acceptable as long as you were making lots of money and were known as a big producer. One thing about capitalism is you can say damn near anything as long as you put the skins on the wall. [I. E. Ted Turner, Hugh Hefner et al]. I could revel in my radical chique but then I had all the money I had time to spend and never really understood I was a darling of capitalism. As long as you turned it out you could mouth any nonsequetor with no consequences.I was drinking with liberal lawyers who were hell bent on getting rich.They liked my radical posturing especially if I was buying.Then I got in with the military and found some right wing wac jobs who saw the system in a most different light. As Mary observed it was "All about Property" and tearing up real estate was as important as owning it. Theory be damned we talked about balance of power and "Kills". I cancelled Mother Jones and subscribed to "Guns and ammo". The lawyers became scarce as they had no kills to talk about so I quit buying. Then I got in with the labor guys and they appreciated production and liked weapons. They called each other brother and had a left wing attitude that defied the owners and had a violent proclivity that was not military. I relate these matters because I have been all around the Rubics cube of economic/political theory. In the real world I find no way around capitalism, I do not like it but all that production is necessary if the lights are to remain on and the trains running on time. It is a winner/loser reality that you escape from when you get rich enough or die.Never fool yourself,the capitalists are smart and mean and they will fight to the death to protect what they have earned. I fear they cannot be replaced, who would brew the beer? Bill
        > >
        >
      • Bryan Junius
        Since our economic downturn (depression) has hit us with a few jabs and a good left hook, I have consistently gone back to my memoirs and material to
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 2, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Since our economic downturn (depression) has hit us with a few jabs and a good left hook, I have consistently gone back to my memoirs and material to re-evaluate my observations of the grandeur life we live in; now - me being somewhat of a stranger in my own world, i have to be so objective to myself in order to ascertain the old credo that which existentialism is founded on "the fear and anxiety" we must all face with ourselves, or that hell is other people around us, i must conjure new thoughts as to why do I feel alone, why is there such a congnitive dissonance between our own species, why the complete randomness, the veil of self-deception before us like an ant-hill being stomped on and each and every time we are forced to rebuild, like drones in disgrace, the rationalization of people that believe we are a race that has to be saved, no and if's or buts about it, and therefore we must rejoice in the shallow halls of Christianity where that one true God will dispel all our weariness and take us to his kingdom in Heaven to drink of the sacraments in his forgiveness; If that is forgiveness Oh, My lord, then let there be a thousand more wars of passion and onslaught in your name and honor!! I prefer the truth that Christianity is the worst type of Communism ever to exist in Man's righteous vocabulary! For he is sworn to defend you no matter what and that our minds, and our so called free will are really just the veils and that lying is much easier to ourselves and to others that it is common place, and that language in itself, the most curious of all things in evolution, that is still yet to be understood can not elucidate the simplest truth!! Therefore why all the swords in the tongue!!?? If we speak of any intellect, it is only that man can see not his demise but only the anthill he lives in, if just there in metaphor, a bleak concoction of property about to be taken up by the very reins of mercantilism, the slanderous capitalist menagerie; as all property can be bought and sold for a price, i gesture that at this time as well seeing so much happening as i glance on the colored tube from time to time, that the infestation of gold bugs are back ready to eat away at the very peasants soul and rob him or her of their very own belongings in order to restrengthen the economic dervish that brought so close to living in bread lines and straggling to soup kitchens for a pauper's meal. Capitalism you say! Communism the other extreme i detest as it is the other horn of that foul mouthed Jack; in order to truly understand where our society is heading is quite easy because if you understand what makes Capitalism strongs than you can understand how just as well to destroy it; which is already happening by the fold! faith in the institution, the freedom of the press, the idea that every man woman and child will be free of harm in harms way when all of societies values and equalities of those who take complete deliberation and participation in a government founded by the people and for the people; without such voice, and an anti-disestablishement would lead to dis-enfranchise with those who are pushed to low wages with high labor, and long hours; why not give the working man what he wants? Why not give him an equal share of having what he is worth? And if not more, give them the reason to be hopeful in their government and not shun them away like Republican batarangs who simply eviscerate their own mores in private meeting rooms, who find ways to may rich men richer, to make Adam Smith's true Laissez Faire become a hopeful reality - by all means - let's just do that - and maybe we should go back to Britain where we came from and swear in the glory of God Save our Queen Forever (hodge posh, boulder dash) I am tired of listening to idiots, and idiots who think they know about the freedoms the swim in but at the same are are happy to cut the branch they sit on as well; they know nothing of Socialism, a modern day so well worn by it's -ISM it has almost become an anti-tea partyist cry that our very lives will be forevered locked in Hell giving thanks to the Devil himself which they cry Barack Obama; Such shallow thinking, when they dont even realize the wonders of New Lanark or that great ideas and thinkers were interested in the investment of man and not his pocket change!! Social Security, Law Enforcement, taxation, fire departments, 8 hour work days, trade unions, regulation of mercantilism trade were to say, just but a few of the many ways that Socialism has given to our society - this is not to say - Socialism is the best there is to achieve, but any one true nature will have it traps, so therefore, great minds must come up with common grounds to reign in any one extreme to the other; this we agree on. With continuing downturn of our Economic crises as well as our sinking education (57th place,btw, right underneath Vietnam) is where we stand in common reading and arithmetic; (37th place in our great healtcare)as such and this downturn only tends to get worse as non regulated BB is about to smack it to the already poor starving, low wage working individual possibly in the midst of early foreclosure and start to degrade our very own water suppy with over four hundred chemicals of Fracking material, to poison the very water supply we drink from just so we wil stay in competition for that number one spot in Globalization; god forbid the Communists reap our profits and once again uprise in imperialistic fashion like the Japanese did back in WWII; i could probably go on and on, but i will stop here and start packing my reserves now before the big bomb goes off; have a pleasant one.

          Bryan Evan Junius

          --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
          > >
          > > As mentioned in previous posts, my late foster father was a labor organizer, an official for the amalgamated meat cutters and butchers. When I was in high school, during a local strike, his son shot a rifle into a transformer which supplied power to the slaughterhouse. I overheard the conversation between the son and his parents and was quite frightened and sad. Sad because he was a young father with two small children and was in much trouble, and frightened, because I was naive enough not to understand the violence that was often part of labor strife. Soon after that, the father was promoted and relocated to Dubuque. Later, as the wife of a shop steward, I became privy to many of the struggles between labor and management and witnessed how a foundry which built equipment for the military treated its workers and watched police who also belonged to unions, break up picket lines. What is it about the proclivity of organized humans to become so extreme? I think cooperativism is a decent compromise, wherein workers have a large stake in productivity, quality, and profit, where worker safety and the environment are valued.
          > >
          > > Mary
          > >Mary, I was too young to join the union when I was in Dubuque. That wild, old river town made me do what was needed just because.Back then I volunteered,To get sandbags from a submerged warehouse we rowed into submerged buildings and loaded bales of burlap into a row boat. Turn over you die, good fun and we were sober. We saved Capones favorite town, but how do you save a trashsy river dump? Especially for a syphlytic , criminal zealot. Why is a hellion like Al remembered and worshiped?Knowing history can make you renounce the official version in difference to a personally examined version. After all the philosophy I have read I still trust what I have seen, smelled and fought against. Empiricism is hard to defeat unless it has all just been in your mind. Bill
          > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > In my salad days I had my subscription to Mother Jones and hated capitalism . I deplored the system but that was acceptable as long as you were making lots of money and were known as a big producer. One thing about capitalism is you can say damn near anything as long as you put the skins on the wall. [I. E. Ted Turner, Hugh Hefner et al]. I could revel in my radical chique but then I had all the money I had time to spend and never really understood I was a darling of capitalism. As long as you turned it out you could mouth any nonsequetor with no consequences.I was drinking with liberal lawyers who were hell bent on getting rich.They liked my radical posturing especially if I was buying.Then I got in with the military and found some right wing wac jobs who saw the system in a most different light. As Mary observed it was "All about Property" and tearing up real estate was as important as owning it. Theory be damned we talked about balance of power and "Kills". I cancelled Mother Jones and subscribed to "Guns and ammo". The lawyers became scarce as they had no kills to talk about so I quit buying. Then I got in with the labor guys and they appreciated production and liked weapons. They called each other brother and had a left wing attitude that defied the owners and had a violent proclivity that was not military. I relate these matters because I have been all around the Rubics cube of economic/political theory. In the real world I find no way around capitalism, I do not like it but all that production is necessary if the lights are to remain on and the trains running on time. It is a winner/loser reality that you escape from when you get rich enough or die.Never fool yourself,the capitalists are smart and mean and they will fight to the death to protect what they have earned. I fear they cannot be replaced, who would brew the beer? Bill
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • William
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 2, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Junius" <bryan.junius@...> wrote:
            >
            > Since our economic downturn (depression) has hit us with a few jabs and a good left hook, I have consistently gone back to my memoirs and material to re-evaluate my observations of the grandeur life we live in; now - me being somewhat of a stranger in my own world, i have to be so objective to myself in order to ascertain the old credo that which existentialism is founded on "the fear and anxiety" we must all face with ourselves, or that hell is other people around us, i must conjure new thoughts as to why do I feel alone, why is there such a congnitive dissonance between our own species, why the complete randomness, the veil of self-deception before us like an ant-hill being stomped on and each and every time we are forced to rebuild, like drones in disgrace, the rationalization of people that believe we are a race that has to be saved, no and if's or buts about it, and therefore we must rejoice in the shallow halls of Christianity where that one true God will dispel all our weariness and take us to his kingdom in Heaven to drink of the sacraments in his forgiveness; If that is forgiveness Oh, My lord, then let there be a thousand more wars of passion and onslaught in your name and honor!! I prefer the truth that Christianity is the worst type of Communism ever to exist in Man's righteous vocabulary! For he is sworn to defend you no matter what and that our minds, and our so called free will are really just the veils and that lying is much easier to ourselves and to others that it is common place, and that language in itself, the most curious of all things in evolution, that is still yet to be understood can not elucidate the simplest truth!! Therefore why all the swords in the tongue!!?? If we speak of any intellect, it is only that man can see not his demise but only the anthill he lives in, if just there in metaphor, a bleak concoction of property about to be taken up by the very reins of mercantilism, the slanderous capitalist menagerie; as all property can be bought and sold for a price, i gesture that at this time as well seeing so much happening as i glance on the colored tube from time to time, that the infestation of gold bugs are back ready to eat away at the very peasants soul and rob him or her of their very own belongings in order to restrengthen the economic dervish that brought so close to living in bread lines and straggling to soup kitchens for a pauper's meal. Capitalism you say! Communism the other extreme i detest as it is the other horn of that foul mouthed Jack; in order to truly understand where our society is heading is quite easy because if you understand what makes Capitalism strongs than you can understand how just as well to destroy it; which is already happening by the fold! faith in the institution, the freedom of the press, the idea that every man woman and child will be free of harm in harms way when all of societies values and equalities of those who take complete deliberation and participation in a government founded by the people and for the people; without such voice, and an anti-disestablishement would lead to dis-enfranchise with those who are pushed to low wages with high labor, and long hours; why not give the working man what he wants? Why not give him an equal share of having what he is worth? And if not more, give them the reason to be hopeful in their government and not shun them away like Republican batarangs who simply eviscerate their own mores in private meeting rooms, who find ways to may rich men richer, to make Adam Smith's true Laissez Faire become a hopeful reality - by all means - let's just do that - and maybe we should go back to Britain where we came from and swear in the glory of God Save our Queen Forever (hodge posh, boulder dash) I am tired of listening to idiots, and idiots who think they know about the freedoms the swim in but at the same are are happy to cut the branch they sit on as well; they know nothing of Socialism, a modern day so well worn by it's -ISM it has almost become an anti-tea partyist cry that our very lives will be forevered locked in Hell giving thanks to the Devil himself which they cry Barack Obama; Such shallow thinking, when they dont even realize the wonders of New Lanark or that great ideas and thinkers were interested in the investment of man and not his pocket change!! Social Security, Law Enforcement, taxation, fire departments, 8 hour work days, trade unions, regulation of mercantilism trade were to say, just but a few of the many ways that Socialism has given to our society - this is not to say - Socialism is the best there is to achieve, but any one true nature will have it traps, so therefore, great minds must come up with common grounds to reign in any one extreme to the other; this we agree on. With continuing downturn of our Economic crises as well as our sinking education (57th place,btw, right underneath Vietnam) is where we stand in common reading and arithmetic; (37th place in our great healtcare)as such and this downturn only tends to get worse as non regulated BB is about to smack it to the already poor starving, low wage working individual possibly in the midst of early foreclosure and start to degrade our very own water suppy with over four hundred chemicals of Fracking material, to poison the very water supply we drink from just so we wil stay in competition for that number one spot in Globalization; god forbid the Communists reap our profits and once again uprise in imperialistic fashion like the Japanese did back in WWII; i could probably go on and on, but i will stop here and start packing my reserves now before the big bomb goes off; have a pleasant one.
            >
            > Bryan Evan Junius
            > Bryan, I have just seen a bird kill occurred in Arkansaw, no reason given just thousands of dead birds. Your post gives me a similar feeling, all kinds of different birds slaughtered for no known reason. Why would something,someone kill thousands of colorful little birds? It was certainly bigger than a shotgun blast as the bodies covered better than a mile. Not even a communist would dispatch the birds especially so many species without regard to their rarity or endangerment. It was the Chichenloob of extinctive bird slaughters and no sort of bird was excluded. I hope the force that dispatched the little bobbins feels better as so many pretty feathers were ruffled. Bill
            > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > As mentioned in previous posts, my late foster father was a labor organizer, an official for the amalgamated meat cutters and butchers. When I was in high school, during a local strike, his son shot a rifle into a transformer which supplied power to the slaughterhouse. I overheard the conversation between the son and his parents and was quite frightened and sad. Sad because he was a young father with two small children and was in much trouble, and frightened, because I was naive enough not to understand the violence that was often part of labor strife. Soon after that, the father was promoted and relocated to Dubuque. Later, as the wife of a shop steward, I became privy to many of the struggles between labor and management and witnessed how a foundry which built equipment for the military treated its workers and watched police who also belonged to unions, break up picket lines. What is it about the proclivity of organized humans to become so extreme? I think cooperativism is a decent compromise, wherein workers have a large stake in productivity, quality, and profit, where worker safety and the environment are valued.
            > > >
            > > > Mary
            > > >Mary, I was too young to join the union when I was in Dubuque. That wild, old river town made me do what was needed just because.Back then I volunteered,To get sandbags from a submerged warehouse we rowed into submerged buildings and loaded bales of burlap into a row boat. Turn over you die, good fun and we were sober. We saved Capones favorite town, but how do you save a trashsy river dump? Especially for a syphlytic , criminal zealot. Why is a hellion like Al remembered and worshiped?Knowing history can make you renounce the official version in difference to a personally examined version. After all the philosophy I have read I still trust what I have seen, smelled and fought against. Empiricism is hard to defeat unless it has all just been in your mind. Bill
            > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > In my salad days I had my subscription to Mother Jones and hated capitalism . I deplored the system but that was acceptable as long as you were making lots of money and were known as a big producer. One thing about capitalism is you can say damn near anything as long as you put the skins on the wall. [I. E. Ted Turner, Hugh Hefner et al]. I could revel in my radical chique but then I had all the money I had time to spend and never really understood I was a darling of capitalism. As long as you turned it out you could mouth any nonsequetor with no consequences.I was drinking with liberal lawyers who were hell bent on getting rich.They liked my radical posturing especially if I was buying.Then I got in with the military and found some right wing wac jobs who saw the system in a most different light. As Mary observed it was "All about Property" and tearing up real estate was as important as owning it. Theory be damned we talked about balance of power and "Kills". I cancelled Mother Jones and subscribed to "Guns and ammo". The lawyers became scarce as they had no kills to talk about so I quit buying. Then I got in with the labor guys and they appreciated production and liked weapons. They called each other brother and had a left wing attitude that defied the owners and had a violent proclivity that was not military. I relate these matters because I have been all around the Rubics cube of economic/political theory. In the real world I find no way around capitalism, I do not like it but all that production is necessary if the lights are to remain on and the trains running on time. It is a winner/loser reality that you escape from when you get rich enough or die.Never fool yourself,the capitalists are smart and mean and they will fight to the death to protect what they have earned. I fear they cannot be replaced, who would brew the beer? Bill
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • dick.richardson@rocketmail.com
            Of all the places I have ever been, and all the people whom I have ever known, and all the groups I have been on, then I have never met such a `happy lot as
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 2, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Of all the places I have ever been, and all the people whom I have ever
              known, and all the groups I have been on, then I have never met such a
              `happy' lot as you folks on this group. You all remind of
              SCROOGE before that transformation during a near death experience. You
              think that you are REALISTS, but you are not, and you are far from it.
              But none the less I wish you well and a merry new year. Yes there is
              much that goes on here that is not nice. But did you cause it? If not
              then keep smiling through. You do not have to carry the burden and
              remorse of others. Rise above it. But as nobody here reads the emails
              which I send, then let it blow on the wind.



              Merlin




              --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Junius" <bryan.junius@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Since our economic downturn (depression) has hit us with a few jabs
              and a good left hook, I have consistently gone back to my memoirs and
              material to re-evaluate my observations of the grandeur life we live in;
              now - me being somewhat of a stranger in my own world, i have to be so
              objective to myself in order to ascertain the old credo that which
              existentialism is founded on "the fear and anxiety" we must all face
              with ourselves, or that hell is other people around us, i must conjure
              new thoughts as to why do I feel alone, why is there such a congnitive
              dissonance between our own species, why the complete randomness, the
              veil of self-deception before us like an ant-hill being stomped on and
              each and every time we are forced to rebuild, like drones in disgrace,
              the rationalization of people that believe we are a race that has to be
              saved, no and if's or buts about it, and therefore we must rejoice in
              the shallow halls of Christianity where that one true God will dispel
              all our weariness and take us to his kingdom in Heaven to drink of the
              sacraments in his forgiveness; If that is forgiveness Oh, My lord, then
              let there be a thousand more wars of passion and onslaught in your name
              and honor!! I prefer the truth that Christianity is the worst type of
              Communism ever to exist in Man's righteous vocabulary! For he is sworn
              to defend you no matter what and that our minds, and our so called free
              will are really just the veils and that lying is much easier to
              ourselves and to others that it is common place, and that language in
              itself, the most curious of all things in evolution, that is still yet
              to be understood can not elucidate the simplest truth!! Therefore why
              all the swords in the tongue!!?? If we speak of any intellect, it is
              only that man can see not his demise but only the anthill he lives in,
              if just there in metaphor, a bleak concoction of property about to be
              taken up by the very reins of mercantilism, the slanderous capitalist
              menagerie; as all property can be bought and sold for a price, i gesture
              that at this time as well seeing so much happening as i glance on the
              colored tube from time to time, that the infestation of gold bugs are
              back ready to eat away at the very peasants soul and rob him or her of
              their very own belongings in order to restrengthen the economic dervish
              that brought so close to living in bread lines and straggling to soup
              kitchens for a pauper's meal. Capitalism you say! Communism the other
              extreme i detest as it is the other horn of that foul mouthed Jack; in
              order to truly understand where our society is heading is quite easy
              because if you understand what makes Capitalism strongs than you can
              understand how just as well to destroy it; which is already happening by
              the fold! faith in the institution, the freedom of the press, the idea
              that every man woman and child will be free of harm in harms way when
              all of societies values and equalities of those who take complete
              deliberation and participation in a government founded by the people and
              for the people; without such voice, and an anti-disestablishement would
              lead to dis-enfranchise with those who are pushed to low wages with high
              labor, and long hours; why not give the working man what he wants? Why
              not give him an equal share of having what he is worth? And if not more,
              give them the reason to be hopeful in their government and not shun them
              away like Republican batarangs who simply eviscerate their own mores in
              private meeting rooms, who find ways to may rich men richer, to make
              Adam Smith's true Laissez Faire become a hopeful reality - by all means
              - let's just do that - and maybe we should go back to Britain where we
              came from and swear in the glory of God Save our Queen Forever (hodge
              posh, boulder dash) I am tired of listening to idiots, and idiots who
              think they know about the freedoms the swim in but at the same are are
              happy to cut the branch they sit on as well; they know nothing of
              Socialism, a modern day so well worn by it's -ISM it has almost become
              an anti-tea partyist cry that our very lives will be forevered locked in
              Hell giving thanks to the Devil himself which they cry Barack Obama;
              Such shallow thinking, when they dont even realize the wonders of New
              Lanark or that great ideas and thinkers were interested in the
              investment of man and not his pocket change!! Social Security, Law
              Enforcement, taxation, fire departments, 8 hour work days, trade unions,
              regulation of mercantilism trade were to say, just but a few of the many
              ways that Socialism has given to our society - this is not to say -
              Socialism is the best there is to achieve, but any one true nature will
              have it traps, so therefore, great minds must come up with common
              grounds to reign in any one extreme to the other; this we agree on. With
              continuing downturn of our Economic crises as well as our sinking
              education (57th place,btw, right underneath Vietnam) is where we stand
              in common reading and arithmetic; (37th place in our great healtcare)as
              such and this downturn only tends to get worse as non regulated BB is
              about to smack it to the already poor starving, low wage working
              individual possibly in the midst of early foreclosure and start to
              degrade our very own water suppy with over four hundred chemicals of
              Fracking material, to poison the very water supply we drink from just so
              we wil stay in competition for that number one spot in Globalization;
              god forbid the Communists reap our profits and once again uprise in
              imperialistic fashion like the Japanese did back in WWII; i could
              probably go on and on, but i will stop here and start packing my
              reserves now before the big bomb goes off; have a pleasant one.
              >
              > Bryan Evan Junius
              >
              > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" v.valleywestdental@ wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > As mentioned in previous posts, my late foster father was a labor
              organizer, an official for the amalgamated meat cutters and butchers.
              When I was in high school, during a local strike, his son shot a rifle
              into a transformer which supplied power to the slaughterhouse. I
              overheard the conversation between the son and his parents and was quite
              frightened and sad. Sad because he was a young father with two small
              children and was in much trouble, and frightened, because I was naive
              enough not to understand the violence that was often part of labor
              strife. Soon after that, the father was promoted and relocated to
              Dubuque. Later, as the wife of a shop steward, I became privy to many of
              the struggles between labor and management and witnessed how a foundry
              which built equipment for the military treated its workers and watched
              police who also belonged to unions, break up picket lines. What is it
              about the proclivity of organized humans to become so extreme? I think
              cooperativism is a decent compromise, wherein workers have a large stake
              in productivity, quality, and profit, where worker safety and the
              environment are valued.
              > > >
              > > > Mary
              > > >Mary, I was too young to join the union when I was in Dubuque. That
              wild, old river town made me do what was needed just because.Back then I
              volunteered,To get sandbags from a submerged warehouse we rowed into
              submerged buildings and loaded bales of burlap into a row boat. Turn
              over you die, good fun and we were sober. We saved Capones favorite
              town, but how do you save a trashsy river dump? Especially for a
              syphlytic , criminal zealot. Why is a hellion like Al remembered and
              worshiped?Knowing history can make you renounce the official version in
              difference to a personally examined version. After all the philosophy I
              have read I still trust what I have seen, smelled and fought against.
              Empiricism is hard to defeat unless it has all just been in your mind.
              Bill
              > > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@>
              wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > In my salad days I had my subscription to Mother Jones and hated
              capitalism . I deplored the system but that was acceptable as long as
              you were making lots of money and were known as a big producer. One
              thing about capitalism is you can say damn near anything as long as you
              put the skins on the wall. [I. E. Ted Turner, Hugh Hefner et al]. I
              could revel in my radical chique but then I had all the money I had time
              to spend and never really understood I was a darling of capitalism. As
              long as you turned it out you could mouth any nonsequetor with no
              consequences.I was drinking with liberal lawyers who were hell bent on
              getting rich.They liked my radical posturing especially if I was
              buying.Then I got in with the military and found some right wing wac
              jobs who saw the system in a most different light. As Mary observed it
              was "All about Property" and tearing up real estate was as important as
              owning it. Theory be damned we talked about balance of power and
              "Kills". I cancelled Mother Jones and subscribed to "Guns and ammo". The
              lawyers became scarce as they had no kills to talk about so I quit
              buying. Then I got in with the labor guys and they appreciated
              production and liked weapons. They called each other brother and had a
              left wing attitude that defied the owners and had a violent proclivity
              that was not military. I relate these matters because I have been all
              around the Rubics cube of economic/political theory. In the real world I
              find no way around capitalism, I do not like it but all that production
              is necessary if the lights are to remain on and the trains running on
              time. It is a winner/loser reality that you escape from when you get
              rich enough or die.Never fool yourself,the capitalists are smart and
              mean and they will fight to the death to protect what they have earned.
              I fear they cannot be replaced, who would brew the beer? Bill
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >



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